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Porn King!!!
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Ok, first off a disclaimer. I did not come up with these rules myself, a friend in one of my local clubs did. And they have not, I repeat, NOT been tested out in any way, shape, or form. Now that being said, check this shit out.

Codex 1ksons

By Terry.


Mark of Tzeentch. 30/10/5 points.

Chaos space marines become rubric thousand sons marines. Gain +1 wound and slow and purposeful USR and are fearless at +10 points per model. The aspiring champion in the squad becomes a sorcerer.

Possessed – become fearless and gain the deamonic fire ability. May replace deamonic fire for doombolt at a further +10 points. Possessed with doom bolt do not count the ability as a psychic power, but as a ranged weapon. Possessed pay +5 points for the mark.

Chosen – chosen with the mark of tzeentch become sorcerers and are fearless at +10 points. Terminators can choose to either be sorcerer terminators, or rubric terminators. Sorceror terminators may not choose reaper autocannons, but are sorceror’s and may choose psychic powers. Rubric terminators, also costing +10 points, gain an extra wound and are fearless as well as slow and purposeful. Rubric terminators may take any normal upgrades allowed.

Characters – Chaos lord is fearless, and becomes a sorcerer. He is a powerful sorcerer and his years of study in the arcane arts let him CHOOSE 1 minor psychic power from the list, as well as being able to purchase 2 psychic powers instead of the usual 1. Chaos lieutenant is fearless and is a sorcerer, and also gets to CHOOSE 1 minor psychic power from the list. Characters pay 30 points for the upgrade.

Rule of the changelord – Thousand sons do not need to make any psychic checks to use their psychic abilities, such is their sorcerous power.

Weaponry – No model in the thousand sons army may carry a heavy weapon (unless it is a vehicle or a terminator.) Models with the sorcerer ability may not take a special weapon. Rubric models may take special weapons at double the cost listed in codex: Chaos space marines.

Resistant to mutation – Thousands sons that are sorcerers have enough warp presence to ward of mutation. Those that do not become either chaos spawn or possessed. Rubric marines are made of dust and cannot harbour mutations. No deamonic gifts other than deamonic stature may be taken by any model in the army except for possessed, and those models upgraded with deamonic stature. Note that this restriction only applies to those abilities in the deamonic gifts section of the chaos space marine armoury. Gifts of tzeentch and deamon weapons are still allowed even though they count as taking up deamonic gifts points.
Models with the mark of tzeentch may not take veteran skills.


New entry:

Fast attack – Warp portals 50 points each.. The warp portal is a warp rift opened up through a tear in reality in which the thousand sons can emerge and do battle. Warp portals are represented by a template with a 5” diameter. Warp portals always start in reserve. When made available, a warp portal is deployed using the deep strike rule, but will not scatter off the table (place it as close as possible to its rolled final position without moving off) and will end it’s scatter move 1” away from any enemy unit of impassable terrain instead of being destroyed by it. An army with a warp portal may keep any of its units in reserve if they wish and deploy them through the warp portal. Models deploying in the manner CANNOT choose to move in from a board edge when they become available. If they become available before a warp portal is open, then put them aside and they may be deployed when it becomes available. Models may be deployed from the warp portal the turn the portal arrives, even if they have just made their reserves roll in that turn. You cannot hold available models in the portal, unless there is no room for them to deploy. Models deployed from the portal make their move on move from any place on the circumference of the portal. If there is no room to deploy the entire unit, the unit is not deployed and will do so at the start of one of their subsequent movement phases when there is room for the unit. Models deploying using the portal who are never placed on the table count as being destroyed for victory points purposes. The portal itself counts as impassable terrain. ANY type of unit can deploy from a warp portal.


Deamons – Flamer’s doom bolt counts as a weapon for the unit, not a psychic power (and thus cannot be nullified)

The lord of change is a potent psyker. It gets one free power, plus the ability to purchase another major psychic power from the armoury. In addition, the knowledge and preparation possessed by the thousand sons in their preparation of the deamon host mean that you can re-roll the possession dice just as if the model had deamonic chains. Cost adjusted to 180 points.

Dreadnoughts:
May be upgraded to a sorcerer dreadnought at +10 points, in which case it may buy bolt of change at +20 points, or flames of tzeentch at +30 points. The psychic power is not a weapon and cannot be destroyed by damage, although it counts towards the number of weapons the dreadnought is allowed to fire. This upgraded cannot be combined with deamonic possession or rubric dreadnought. Sorceror dreadnoughts count as having LD 10 for the purpose of any having their spells dispelled by an ability that requires the opponent to have a leadership value. No psychic test is required to use the power.

May be upgraded to a rubric dreadnought at +25 points. This upgrade allows the vehicle to ignore stunned and shaken results. In addition, the dreadnought does not roll for fire frenzy.

New Gifts of Tzeentch:

Eyes of Tzeentch now give the character the ability to re-roll his or his units' (if he's attatched to one) reserves roll to come on to the table, instead of using one of the other re-rolls it provides in a turn. Only one model can use his eye of tzeentch for the reserve re-roll per turn.

Warp shard (one per army) (replaces warp tailisman)– 15 points. Perils of the warp happen to enemy psykers on any roll of doubles for one of their psychic checks. This has no effect on the successful outcome of the spell.

Tome of the forbidden lores (one per army) – 30 points. This tome is a collection of all the forbidden knowledge acquired by the most powerful sorcerers – the most recent addition was the workings of the webway discovered by Ahriman and his cabal. This item allows the character to during the movement phase, remove any squad he is attached to from the board, and immediately re-deploy them using the deep strike rule. This ability cannot be used on vehicles. This ability is not a psychic power and cannot be dispelled by items that work against psychic powers.

Mark of the favoured disciple (one per army) – 30 points. This talisman marks the character out as a favoured follower of tzeentch, and a powerful figure who has been granted command over a small army of deamons. Units of horrors in the army count as having the sustained assault rule. Once it has been wiped out, it may be summoned again at the start of the next turn without having to roll. Once it has been wiped out the first time, the unit is no longer scoring. Units respawning in this way must be summoned off of a personal icon held by the character with the mark of the favoured disciple.

Minor psychic power table. – All abilities do not require a psychic test. A roll on the chart costs 15 points. A character can buy as many rolls as he wishes, re-rolling duplicates.

1 – Telepathy: Allows one re-roll for reserves per turn. Only one sorcerer can use this ability in a turn. Cast in movement phase.
2 – Cover of Darkness: Any enemy targeting the sorcerer of the unit he is attached to must roll night fight to see them. If the game is already using the night fight rules, then halve the distance when rolling to spot this unit. The unit counts as being in cover if assaulted.Cast in movement phase. Effect lasts one game turn.
3 – Pink fire: Character has the doombolt psyhic power.
4 – Foresight: When rolling for who gets the first turn, you may re-roll your dice. This ability cannot be nullified.
5 – Warp tangles: Cast at the start of enemy movement phase. One unit within LOS and 24” to the sorcerer counts as moving/assaulting through difficult terrain. Weather they move or not, they count as moving for the purposes of firing weapons. Effect lasts for the entire enemy turn.
6 – Blessing of tzeentch: Power counts as being in effect all the time, and cannot be nullified. The character gains a 4+ invulnerable save. However, if he ever rolls 3 or more one’s (after re-rolls) on his close combat attacks, he is sucked into the warp instantly for his incompetence, and counts as destroyed.


New psychic powers:

Flames of Tzeentch – 45/30 points. Cast in the movement phase instead of moving of using an ability that is used in the movement phase. Squad can still fire at a different target in the shooting phase than this power was used on in the movement phase. If a sorcerer uses this power neither he nor his unit can assault in the assault phase.

S9, ap2, range 36”.

Bolt of change cost changed to 30/15 points.

Time shift – 20 points. Cast in the shooting phase. Gives the sorcerer and any unit they are with the fleet USR.

Fade to Dust – 25 points. Cast in the assault phase. This spell is a much less powerful version of the rubric of Ahriman. Any model that suffers an unsaved wound from the character this round is killed outright. If this spell is used against a unit with multiple wound models, only one model will be killed outright regardless of how many hits are scored.

Reckoning of Tzeentch – 30 points. Cast in the shooting phase instead of firing a weapon. Allows the unit the sorcerer is attached to re-roll missed to hit rolls for that shooting phase.

Deamon weapons (remove warp blade and bedlam staff).

Helm of a thousand eyes - 25 points – This helmet shows the sorcerer powerful visions of the near future, and several different possible outcomes. A model wearing this helm can see and counter his opponents’ moves before he even thinks to make them, and strike with lightning quickness at his enemy’s revealed weaknesses. As the helm is not a weapon, it dosen’t count towards the maximum amount of weapons a character can have. A character wearing the helm strikes at initiative 10 thanks to the revelations. However the images and connection to the warp put him at constant risk of going insane or being sucked into the warp. He must make a mastery test at the start of every turn.


Rift Sword - 25 points - Containing the bound essence of a lord of change, this blade allows the wielder to cast psychic powers with much more power than normal. The range of any psychic powers cast by the sorcerer are doubled. A mastery check must be made whenever this ability is used. The sword as no effect on powers with no range, or that use a template. The rift sword is a power weapon. This effect may not be stacked with warp focus.


-------------------------


Psychic powers have been beefed. They should be sufficiently good now. The minor psycic powers have been significantly boosted, but now cost more points for the roll. Hopefully it will be enough to encourage players to take them, even if they are random. I've given characters the ability to choose a 'free' minor power. (and upped the cost an extra 20 points for this ability) so they'll get some use. The ability to choose should make the player think hard, as some of them are really pretty good at boosing the character (4+ inv save), and some of them help out the army (re-roll on reserves - possibly really useful in a warp portal army). Also, I've included the sustained assault horror ability to encourage people to actually take horrors instead of just flamers all the time. Possessed are reduced in cost and are no longer uneccessarily sorcerors and therefore a 'feasible' unit to take. Rubrics can take different weaponry, as it didn't make sense to me that they can fire a bolter but not another gun... The pay more points because of the increased effectiveness of the weapons due to slow and purposeful and the resilient platform. Rubric terminators again get the benefit of not having to be stuck with combi-bolters and power weapons. Dreadnoughts have been spiced up a bit, as a bit of encouragement over the other more shootier heavy support choices. The wargear options and psychic powers are designed to give the 1k sons some of the firepower they lost in 4th addition back, as well as making their character psyckers a force to be recoked with compared to their loyalist counter parts. Also, some of the powers provide some more tactical options (fleet to help the slowness of the units) or re-rolls for shootiness. Either way, I believe the 1k sons units will now be more dynamic and not just a close combat champion sheild. The warp portals and the teleport ability were introduced to give the sons a different style of deployment, that suits their guile and shifty nature. Random, but the opponent never knows what you're going to do or where you're going to come from. Similar to drop pod deployment only in a more tzeentch way. The restrictions of characters demaonic gifts were there to prevent the making of uber characters given the new fairly powerful powers and kit. They're sorcerors not close combat deamons and I think that this will help to represent them as such, relying on powers and abilities rather than deamonic strength, mutation, rune and essence to keep them kicking.
Personally, I love the thought behind these rules. Making the Sons more magic oriented and such, leaving some limitations that they have now in there while addressing weaknesses in the list and such. Hopefully, someone in my group will be willing to try these out with me :D
 

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Now it's been a while since I saw the last load of Tzeentch's followers' rules, but there's one very very large problem with what you've done. Of all those changes, you have made nothing worse, and nearly everything better. Not only that, but the changes range from slightly better to inestimably better. For the Thousand Sons to be so bad that these changes would bring them in line with the average potency of 40K armies would require that they previously be so appalingly bad as to be completely and utterly unplayable. As I know this is not the case, it seems fairly clear you've gone over the top here.
 

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I agree that the rules are a bit over the top. Basically as I started reading it, I see current weaknesses being filled in with putty and smoothed over and thats it. I do like the shift towards more magic, but I also see the Sons as still very playable and I've played them in many different forms (Changewing terminator army, mostly demons, rubric heavy, etc..)
 

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Porn King!!!
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Way to read the entire post. As I said, I didn't write them. And they have been posted for discussion sake and the enjoyment to be had therin. I will be the first to say that they need serious testing and more than likely a fair bit of down tuning. Nevertheless, they are still cool and my feelings that they alter the way the Sons play toward a more magically oriented style of play still stands.
 

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I think the current rules are still pretty bland. Those have some large benefits, I agree, with barely any weaknesses.

On the other hand, there are some great ideas in there that just need some tweaking. Warp Portals are a cool idea, but should be Sorcerous Wargear or a Psychic Power instead. The Rift Sword sounds like a great item, but the rules laid down aren't what I was looking for, same goes for the Tome of Forbidden Lore. I really like the Eye of Tzeentch power and they should have more like it, ala eldar powers.

A huge fragment missing from the Thousands Sons is their pre-heresy abilities. The sorcerers alive today were alive back then, and therefore should have access to some powers that also fight chaos, as Tzeentch still sometimes does. Maybe a power to prevent demons from entering the board for a turn, like a reserve-forcing mind war. Farseeing abilities, as many had. Maybe more gear related to using the warp for clandestine or indirect harm means. I dislike the slow and purposeful crap. They should have something akin to Wraithsight or that ability exactly, which only an accompanied sorcerer with a Waystone wargear item can remove.

I'm going to play around my own set and post em. I've got the itch now. I think even Uber would respect the Wraithsight concept.

Khaine
 

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I don't know, I honestly think the current rules are fine. The simple change to 4th Edition rules actually fixes most of the issues with the Thousand Sons. I've lost once with my Thousand Sons army out of fifteen games or so with them. I'm only an average tactician, and no one considers my army cheesy. So clearly, the Thousand Sons aren't lacking. They're hard to play for Space Marines. They don't need to be brought to the point where any moron can play them well-- they just need some more useful equipment for their sorcerers. The stuff in the Book of Tzeentch is, for the most part, pretty useless.
 

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My Thousand Sons.

I edited this post with the updated list work I've done. It's still hugely a rough draft, but give me your opinions still. Mine and Horus' chatter after this will probably make no sense because of the changes.

The Thousand Sons

The Mark of Tzeentch
All Thousand Sons chaos space marine models are +10pts and come with the Mark of Tzeentch, except the Obliterator Cult and Raptor Cult. All models with the Mark of Tzeentch are Fearless, may not take veteran skills, and automatically pass any psychic test they are required to take

Units of Tzeentch
Empyreal: Millenia ago, the greatest librarian of the Thousand Sons, Ahriman, cast a baleful spell to remove the ability for chaos taint in his legion. The spell worked, in a way, obliterating the physical bodies of the most of his legion, leaving the their warp-spirits trapped inside their armor. They now exist as mindless marionettes, made effective through sorcery and a chaotic link to the material universe. At the start of their turn, roll a D6 for each Empyreal unit that does not include a friendly sorcerer. On a roll of a 1, the Empyreal unit is inactive until the end of their turn. Inactive models may not move, shoot, assault, or attack in close combat, and are hit automatically in close combat.

All models with the Sorcerer ability are no longer Empyreal. All Empyreal models gain Daemonic Essence and Slow and Purposeful. They are also unaffected by the Gift of Chaos and Mass Mutation powers. Upgrading models to Aspiring Champions grants them the Sorcerer ability. Empyreal models may never have the Sorcerer ability.

Any unit consisting of 9 models counts as Favored. A Favored unit allowed Aspiring Champions may upgrade one model to Aspiring Champion for free. Daemon Packs or Daemonic Beasts units of 9 models models are also Favored and add +1 to their summoning roll.

Weaponry of Tzeentch
Apart from Sorcerers, all Mark of Tzeentch models must use bolters as their standard weaponry and cannot upgrade unless upgraded to Terminators.
Any unit may be upgraded to Terminators for +18pts per model(including sorcerers). They replace their normal weaponry with power weapons & combi-bolters and only a sorcerer may further upgrade his weaponry. Any unit upgraded to Terminators count as an Elite choice.

Vehicles
All vehicles must be dedicated to Tzeentch at +15 pts and gain the Coruscating Flame ability.
Coruscating Flame: Any model attacking the vehicle in close combat takes a Str D6, AP4 hit before resolving it’s attacks.

The Thousand Sons Army List
HQ
Chaos Lord/Daemon Prince: Must be upgraded to Sorcerer Lord.
Chaos Lieutenant: Must be upgraded to Sorcerer.
Greater Daemon: May only take Lord of Change

Elite
Chosen: You may only purchase half of the allowed Chosen models for your point total.
Every third chosen is a Sorcerer, and all chosen without the Sorcerer ability are Empyreal.
Possessed Chaos Space Marines: This unit may not be chosen.
Obliterator Cult: This unit may not be chosen.

Troop
Chaos Space Marines: All models are Empyreal. Any model upgraded to Aspiring Champion is instead a Sorcerer.
Daemon Packs: Only Horrors may be chosen.
Nurglings: This unit may not be chosen.

Fast Attack
Chaos Raptors: This unit may not be chosen.
Chaos Marine Bikers: This unit may not be chosen.
Daemonic Beasts: Only Screamers may be chosen.

Heavy Support
Chaos Havocs: No changes.
Chaos Predator: No changes.
Chaos Dreadnought: Thousand Sons dreadnoughts are Empyreal, yet have a weak Keystone integrated into their sarcophagi. They do not gain(or suffer from) any abilites associated with being Empyreal, except that they do not suffer from Fire Frenzy.
A chaos dreadnought can be upgraded to Sorcerous for 20 pts. It is equipped with an additional Dreadnought close combat weapon incorporating a twin-linked bolter, giving it +1 attack. A Sorcerous Dreadnought is no longer Empyreal and may not replace its weapons, yet may take normal vehicle upgrades and gifts for a Chaos Dreadnought and a single Major Psychic Power. It once again suffers from Fire Frenzy. It may purchase a Talisman of Tzeentch OR a Warp Focus for the normal price. For Psychic Power purposes, count its Ld as a 10.
Chaos Land Raider: No changes.
Chaos Defiler: No changes.


Wargear
Thousand Sons may use the main armory in addition to the below items/powers. They may not purchase Familiars or Warp Talismans.
Bedlam Staff: No changes.
Blasted Standard: No changes.
Book of Forbidden Lore:) Any model removed from the game by the model with this item is counted as double its Victory Points. 15pts.(One per army)
Dimensional Anchor: A sorcerer attaches special warp foci to the armor of his squad to anchor their spirits to the physical world. Any Empyreal models with Dimensional Anchors always count as rolling 6’s on difficult terrain tests for Slow and Purposeful. 5pts +1 per Empyreal model. (i.e. Aspiring Champion and 4 Empyreal marines is 13pts).
Disc of Tzeentch: No changes.
Inferno Bolts: No changes.
Keystone: Any Empyreal unit within 12” automatically passes Empyreal rolls. 6pts
Riftweaver: Counts as a great weapon. May be used in the shooting phase with the below profile. It is an Assault 1 weapon with a range of 6”, always wounds on a 2+, has an AP of 2, and against vehicles causes a Crew Shaken on a 3-4 and a Crew Stunned on a 5-6.
Talisman of Tzeentch: As normal, except also counts as a familiar. 9pts.
Thrall Wizard: No changes.
Warp Blade: No changes.

Psychic Powers
Minor
Minor Powers are now chosen and purchased as wargear for 10pts.
Pink Fire of Tzeentch
Psychic Duel
Weaver of Fates
Withering Gaze

Major
Major powers are chosen as before.
Bolt of Change: No changes.
Eye of Tzeentch: No changes.
Fear of the Darkness: As listed in Codex: Space Marines. 15pts.
Incorporeality: This power is used in the movement phase instead of moving. The model and any unit it has joined becomes incorporeal. In game terms, the unit cannot move, shoot or assault, yet cannot be targeted(even indirectly) or assaulted during the duration. The model cannot use this power while in assault, nor use this power on a unit in assault.
The power lasts until the start of the models next movement phase. Any models effected by Incorporeality at the end of the game count as being destroyed for victory point purposes. (i.e. Still under the effect of the power.) 10pts.
Interdiction: Long ago, the Thousand Sons perfected this power to prevent daemons from materializing on the battlefield. Now, long past their fall, they continue to use it in the name of Tzeentch, sending back minions of the warp that wish to alter Tzeentch’s plans. It’s greatest use is against the gibbering hordes of Nurgle. This power may be used once a turn, when an opponent tries to summon a daemon unit or a greater daemon. Both players roll a D6, adding the Leadership of the model casting and the Leadership of the opposing unit/model to the roll. If the Sorcerer wins, the unit/model automatically fails to be summoned this turn. If the sorcerer ties the opposing total, the enemy unit/model is at a –1 to its summoning roll(if a roll is made). The rolls are made before a unit/model rolls for its summoning but after it attempts to be summoned.
A unit/model the sorcerer failed to prevent from summoning may never have Interdiction used on it again that game. 15pts.
(i.e. if the unit/model still failed its summoning roll after the power failed to stop them.)
Reckoning of Tzeentch(as minor power of same name): 20pts.
Sins of the Grandfather: The model using this power and any single unit he is part of during the use of this power, may reroll all failed to hit and to wound rolls in close combat against models with the Mark of Nurgle. This power lasts until the end of the turn. 20pts.
Twisting Path: No changes.

I really like the new power ideas I had. I wanted them to have a fat assortment.

Khaine
 

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The upgrades to sorcerers for the HQ units are redundant, as the Mark of Tzeentch includes the upgrade.

Slow and Purposeful models strike at Initiative 4. I'd eliminate the Strike at I3 on the Dimensional Anchor. Realistically, it should be more like 3 or even 5 points per model-- Slow and Purposeful is the balancing factor for Daemonic Essence. While you attack normally in close combat, you don't get a charging bonus for being Slow and Purposeful.

Obliterators may be able to shift their forms, but it eliminates a weakness of the Thousand Sons by allowing them in the army list. Besides, the Thousand Sons have not been given the Obliterator virus-- realistically, Obliterators should be a 0-1 choice for Black Legion armies and 0-3 for Iron Warriors, and unavailable to anyone else. Raptors have no reason to be present either, for more or less the same reason-- it's eliminating a major weakness of the army without replacing a weakness elsewhere. Same logic with the bikers... I don't think Rubric Marines really have the reflexes to handle a Space Marine bike anyway.

Possessed are actually an important part of a Thousand Sons army. They're expensive per model, but you can have flying Possessed and have each and every one of those bastards have Wind of Chaos. It's a powerful option, and the points cost of having to use possessed to have jump packers makes up for the elimination of the speed weakness of the army overall.

The Book of Forbidden Lore should be a 1 per army item, and should be at LEAST doubled in cost, if not more. Doubling a KIA enemy unit's victory points is enough to win you a lot of games.

The Riftweaver should be a daemon weapon, I think. It's more powerful than the Kai Gun, and cheaper to boot.
 

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I can see the lack of Obliterators, Raptors, and Bikes. I wasn't going to put them there originally but did for the hell of it. If I enacted this list, I would most likely remove them as they can't have Marks of Tzeentch and I dislike that.

The upgrades for the HQs were a Must in my opinion as its an additional point cost to rationlize them being said sorceror lords. The Mark pretty much would only grant them Fearless.

Even though it doesnt mention the fact in the Rulebook, the most recent Chaos Codex still counts Slow and Purposeful as having I1. I settled with it being specifically for the Thousand Sons. I also originally planned the Anchor to be 3pts a model, but still think 2 isn't over the top. Maybe mentioned in an FAQ?

On the other wargear. The book should definitely be one per army, good call. Maybe a slight points increase, but it only allows double the points per model the sorcerer with it kills, not units. I can see it getting out of control on a murder-city lord though, so maybe a 5pt boost for starters.
I actually erased something on the Riftweaver that was supposed to stay there, which was a 6" range on the staff and can't be used in assault on the same turn it was fired. Probably also add that the model cannot pick any other weapons if the staff is purchased. No daemon weapon though, as multiple sorcerers with them were in my mind. I wouldn't say it is more powerful that the Kai Gun. That has double the range and double the killing potential on 80% of the games units. It's only stronger on vehicles and large creatures. I would probably drop the staff to only glancing vehicles.

I would absolutely never allow possessed though. It's the exact opposite of what the Rubric stands for and seems unfluffy to the extreme. They shouldn't be allowed to have Possessed as nearly all of their Legion is now dust, save the surviving powerful sorcerers. That's my stance on that. Might as well give em Plaguebearers..

I also want to add a psychic power to stop daemons from being summoned and maybe even a slightly bended Imperial power. Also one specifically against Nurgle followers.

Khaine
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
For easier reading, try separating the individual wargear and powers. Those sections are hard to read. Anyhow:


When I compare the two different ideas here, I have to admit that I prefer the first one simply due to the fact that it drastically changes their playstyle from how it is now. The main differences I see in what you have done is add a further weakness to the Rubrics and some more wargear and spells. While that is cool, I am one of the many who think that the Thousand Sons are severely broken and need more than that to 'fix' them.

Don't get me wrong, you have definitely put some good effort into this for sure. I love the Dimensional Anchor for sure and I think that things like it (which would help to make up for the armies defincencies) is what is needed.
 

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If they're really as bad as you say they are, little changes like the ones shown here so far won't eve change that. I still think they're far from weak, unless your standard is the Chaos Codex proper, which as we all know is probably the most powerful codex available right now.

If we're all in agreement that the Dustboys need fixing, then those who actually use the army should come up with a shortlist of the significant issues facing the army for everyone to discuss. It's worked for me in the past.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
uberschveinen said:
If we're all in agreement that the Dustboys need fixing, then those who actually use the army should come up with a shortlist of the significant issues facing the army for everyone to discuss. It's worked for me in the past.
Sounds like a plan to me. So the problems I have with the list:

Very expensive
Horrible Movement
Severe lack of high strength weaponry
Psychic powers blow, especially when compared to SM's or Eldar

Things I like

2 wounds
Stationary for shooting


In my honest and personal opinion it is the cost of the army combined with the severe (did I mention severe) lack of high strength weapons that hurt the Sons the most. Yes, getting 2 wound Marines is very nice but the drawbacks that come with it are a bit much to me. I would like to see the cost of the Rubric be a bit less on Rubrics (not sorcerers though, 10pts is fine for them I think) or perhaps the drawbacks of the Rubric lessened, be it through better movement or by at least being able to fire Special Weapons along with bolters. I agree that Heavy Weapons in the Rubric squads would be too much combined with being stationary for firing.

The lack of high strength weapons could easily be countered with specials in the squads and maybe access to Havocs. After all, they can fire a bolter, why not any other gun? Or perhaps give us back Flames of Tzeentch. Personally, I would like to see the powers beefed up and new, useful ones put in (which is kinda why I liked the first set of alt rules I posted so much).

What it boils down to for me is the fact that for the 2 wounds they get through the Rubric, the drawbacks go too far in the attempt to balance the army out, making them too many points for what they can actually do.

There, that seems like a good place to start. More will come from this discussion.
 

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I agree with Wraithlord,
I love my Sons and want to do more Troops but end up using vehicles to get AP weapons.With the high points cost you don't get many squads to paint.
Enemy Armour just laughs at me on the whole.
I don't mind standing still for heavy weapons.
The psychics will catch up when the Codex is redone (If the thing about seperate Codexs for the Powers is true even more so).
 

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World Eaters have just as much problem finding high str, low ap weapons (unless its a plasma pistol) as the Thousand Sons do, but you can add them in there the same ways... Defilers, Bolts of Change, Powerfists (I believe Tzeentch champs can have them off memory), Predators, LR's, Dreads, Demon Princes, GD's, Possessed (they can rend I believe), etc....
 

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I don't have any trouble with tanks. People actually are nervous about the kind of anti-tank fire I can put out with my Thousand Sons. Three possessed dreadnoughts are harder to put down than you might think, and even though it's quite simple to shoot the Rhinos instead, people have yet to do that-- they always go for the dreadnoughts, and by the time they've dealt with one or two of them, the Rhinos have been unloaded and the Dreadnoughts really aren't needed anymore. Power fists on my champions can handle things from there.
 

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If we're busy trying to fix the Thousand Sons, honestly, there's a very easy way to do it. You had one unit, and it's a unit that GW already made.

Chosen of Ahriman.

Done. This gives the army another HQ choice, which you can have three of. It gives them SERIOUS mobility all of a sudden, and 3 more psykers to unleash Bolts of Change, which is all the anti-tank you ever need, especially because with them, range means nothing.

Seriously, I play 1ksons. I love them as is. They're SOLID. You put a champion in each squad, give them Bolt of Change... and it's no different (shorter range, but not much as an assault weapon) than having a Marine squad with a single lascannon as your anti-tank.

Of course, if you really want more firepower, you can do what I ended up doing... making the army Black Legion to get some Emperor's Children Havocs on the board.
 
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