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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Some portion of them are engaging with Istvaan Remnant. Another portion of them rebelled(led by Omegon). They are suffering virtual inter-Legion civil war.

Still, they take both Scars and Wolves and winning. Chondax was just a beginning and they are fighting with Vth and VIth across galaxy entire, even as far as the region of Pale Stars. Remember by nature, both Scars and Alphas are widely dispersed Legions. Moreover, in Alaxxes, a fifth of Alpha Legion main force(led by Alpharius) are greater and mightier than Wolves entire fleet.

It is stated they might have comparable number to Ultramarines and are able to field previously unthinkable number of Legionaries simultaneously across the entire galaxy. It seems even conjectured upper limit of 180,000 strength is severe underestimation. I think it is quite plausible that Alphas are the most numerous Legion.

They never fail except sheer turn of chance or fate. They have practically no weaknesses. They control and exploit each and every factor and element and if enemies somehow achieved meaningful victory or breakthrough, it is just because they allowed enemy to win, with possible one or two exceptions.

Novels and Forge World Books already pretty much established them as one of the most powerful and fearsome Legion. And it seems if anything, they are increasingly nearing territory of unadulterated Mary Sue, if they did not cross the line long time ago.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
It's convenient for them to let people believe it, in any case :D
Nope, capacities of Alpha Legion are not mere propaganda or contrived lies. It is grain of salt, and solid, established facts. I think 30k Imperial chroniclers have no reason whatsoever to inflate or exaggerate powers and abilities of their hated, despised foe and records, eye witnesses and first-hand experience generally do not lie.
 

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I have personal doubts the Alpha Legion could be the largest. The sort of fighting they did...it's sorta harkens back to Horus Rising when they compared what it took to become a Space Marine and an Iterator. For a Space Marine they need genetic compatibility with the geneseed and a willingness to fight unto death. That's not too hard to come about in the war torn post Long Night galaxy. Everything else, warcraft, discipline (and this was negotiable when we look at the World Eaters), and fighting technique can be readily taught.

For Iterators, they're a breed apart. As the book says, you can teach someone what to think but it's much harder to change how someone thinks. And I think for an Alpha Legionnaire, finding aspirants for them would be extremely difficult.

I don't think their numbers are likely to be all that great. Remember, the Alpha Legion is more than willing to utilize skilled human operatives to bolster their force. Also they're masters of planning. They can do more with less--if given the proper information and time to work out a proper plan.
 

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I don't think their numbers are likely to be all that great. Remember, the Alpha Legion is more than willing to utilize skilled human operatives to bolster their force. Also they're masters of planning. They can do more with less--if given the proper information and time to work out a proper plan.
All the more reason their numbers are in fact that great. They don't lose as many members because they use proxies. And being masters of planning and perfectionists, they don't waste manpower unless they need to.

There was even an extract in one of the ForgeWorld books that said something along the lines of the AL being able to replenish their numbers/join a warfront with exceedingly large numbers for unknown reasons.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
All the more reason their numbers are in fact that great. They don't lose as many members because they use proxies. And being masters of planning and perfectionists, they don't waste manpower unless they need to.

There was even an extract in one of the ForgeWorld books that said something along the lines of the AL being able to replenish their numbers/join a warfront with exceedingly large numbers for unknown reasons.
Yes, how Alpha Legion managed to replace and increase number exceedingly fast is unfathomable mystery and defy the belief and indeed, common sense. Even the likes of Ultramarines and Iron Warriors were not able to replenish their number that quickly.

We all know the fact that after lost 50,000 Legionaries during Third Rangdan Xenocide, Dark Angels never able to surpass Ultramarines in terms of number again, even though they were previously the largest Legion. But Alpha Legion...well, they became that large in mere twenty years from a scant thousands. How incredibly quaint.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Wait, if we take pro-Luther Angels into account, Dark Angels might still be considered as the largest Legion...at least according to Wolf King.

Though I still doubt they would be as large as the Ultramarines prior Calth Atrocity.
 

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"Deliverance Lost" may give some clues about the way the Alpha Legion are able to replenish their losses faster than any other legion/chapter.

The Alpha Legion is the most powerful in matter of deception and planning, for sure. But I'm not sure that they are better than Iron Warriors for a siege, Word Bearers within the Eye of Terror or Ultramarines for purely battlefield tactics and strategy. Do you think, for instance, that they would have done better than the Thousand Sons against the Space Wolves, or than the Space Wolves against the Thousand Sons ?
 

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I think the beauty of the XX is they could be the largest legion, but only one or two people would ever know. Similarly they could be the smallest!

"Deliverance Lost" may give some clues about the way the Alpha Legion are able to replenish their losses faster than any other legion/chapter.

The Alpha Legion is the most powerful in matter of deception and planning, for sure. But I'm not sure that they are better than Iron Warriors for a siege, Word Bearers within the Eye of Terror or Ultramarines for purely battlefield tactics and strategy. Do you think, for instance, that they would have done better than the Thousand Sons against the Space Wolves, or than the Space Wolves against the Thousand Sons ?
Yes.

"Alpharius has gone too far this time. Bring him to me, dead or alive"
"Okay"

The Space Wolves set off for the AL homeworld

"Wait... where are we going?" :(
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
"Deliverance Lost" may give some clues about the way the Alpha Legion are able to replenish their losses faster than any other legion/chapter.

The Alpha Legion is the most powerful in matter of deception and planning, for sure. But I'm not sure that they are better than Iron Warriors for a siege, Word Bearers within the Eye of Terror or Ultramarines for purely battlefield tactics and strategy. Do you think, for instance, that they would have done better than the Thousand Sons against the Space Wolves, or than the Space Wolves against the Thousand Sons ?
The answer is yes. Clearly, all Legions are not equal and Space Wolves have no hope against full might of Alpha Legion even in the full frontal assault, and despite of their formidable psychic might, Thousand Sons are too small for making any difference.

Remember the fact that a splinter fleet of Alpha Legion was more than match entire might of the lauded Wolves and almost managed to obliterate them.

After reading the Calth, I started to doubt the vaunted battlefield adaptation of Ultramarines. Sever their heads, and Ultras become complete morons. Their doctrine is rigid and unimaginative, their tactics and strategies are time-proved hackneyed, their equipment are cheap and mass produced variants, their navies are meager and wholly dependent on the fleets of Excertus Imperialis, etc.

All in all, it is not surprising that staple tactics of 13th Legion is no other than mass assault using their number and discipline in the fullest...exactly same as the World Bearers.

Really, Forge World utterly shattered what rosy fantasy I had had about 30k Ultamarines.

In my opinion, Alpha Legions battlefield tactics and strategy, typically known as "Harrowing" is arguably superior than that of Ultramarines, if they are given enough time for preparation and before readied and complete their rehearsals, Alpha Legion would never pit against Ultramarines head-to-head. And anyway, they are much more flexible, pliable and creative than doctrine-bound Ultramarines. I bet only the White Scars can match Alpha Legion in terms of initiative, individual thought and creativity.

However they lack of Alphas discipline, force cohesion and unity of purpose and seldom cooperate -- simply put, they are too unpredictable and that is the reason why they never trusted by Imperial commanders, other Primarchs and indeed, Emperor himself.

And just one more talk. IIRC, you asked the source of the Alpha Legion recuperation speed. The source is Forge World Books and that is before timeperiod of Deliverance Lost. They always phenomenally fast at replenishing their loss and their gene seed was one of the most pure, stable and efficient from their incipient.

Yes, they are the closest thing of the Mary Sue in 30k galaxy.
 

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I wouldn't say they're anywhere close to being mary sues or even being the most powerful legion in the galaxy.
A legion like the space wolves or ultramarines are united in what they're doing, they don't have to wonder if another legionary is operating under secret orders, because they know they themselves are.
 

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And just one more talk. IIRC, you asked the source of the Alpha Legion recuperation speed. The source is Forge World Books and that is before timeperiod of Deliverance Lost. They always phenomenally fast at replenishing their loss and their gene seed was one of the most pure, stable and efficient from their incipient.

Yes, they are the closest thing of the Mary Sue in 30k galaxy.
Well ... I didn't ask for anything, actually. You have asked a question about the power of the Alpha Legion, and I understand the first answer better now, as your goal does not seem to be discussing or finding clues and opinions about it, but to impose your own point of view that seems to be the only one correct answer.

So, yes. Alpha Legion is the most powerful legion, and Omegon is now sitting up the Golden Throne, smirking at the Cabal for his best trick upon them :angel:

"Alpharius has gone too far this time. Bring him to me, dead or alive"
"Okay"

The Space Wolves set off for the AL homeworld

"Wait... where are we going?" :(
I talked about the battle itself, not the way or place to start it :biggrin:

Actually, except for Istvann V, I have never read anything about a massive Alpha Legion deployment and battle in open ground, nor even any defensive stance. Even if I like Alpha Legion a lot, I still think that other legions/chapters are better than them in such situations.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Well ... I didn't ask for anything, actually. You have asked a question about the power of the Alpha Legion, and I understand the first answer better now, as your goal does not seem to be discussing or finding clues and opinions about it, but to impose your own point of view that seems to be the only one correct answer.

So, yes. Alpha Legion is the most powerful legion, and Omegon is now sitting up the Golden Throne, smirking at the Cabal for his best trick upon them :angel:.
Nope. Most definitely not. I do not have any love or affection regarding Alpha Legion. You are totally wrong about my intention and motives.

On the contrary, I deeply hate them. I vehemently hate and despise the way they are portrayed by BL and FW. And how they are so easily and implausibly deceived and manipulated by the Cabal. Also I hate their delineation of Ultramarines, which are one of my favorites.

So I researched, and more I study and inquire, I am only become more certain and over and over vindicated that Alpha Legion are overwanked and I wish to see as many as opposed evidences and counter opinions and objections.

In short, I am playing a sort of the Devil's Advocate.:wink:

And IIRC, you asked me the source of Alpha Legion and at some point deleted it and I am lately answered about that question. However of course, my memory is failable and it is possible I am confusing you with other person or even construct entire memory anew.

I talked about the battle itself, not the way or place to start it :biggrin:

Actually, except for Istvann V, I have never read anything about a massive Alpha Legion deployment and battle in open ground, nor even any defensive stance. Even if I like Alpha Legion a lot, I still think that other legions/chapters are better than them in such situations.
Tesstra Prime, Paramar, Chondax and Alaxxes say hello.:)

Especially Alaxxes. They are so wanked that some portion of Alpha Legion fleets are more than match of entire Wolves fleets.:(
 

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Nope. Most definitely not. I do not have any affection regarding Alpha Legion. You are totally wrong about my intention and motives.

On the contrary, I deeply hate them. I vehemently hate and despise the way they are portrayed by BL and FW. And how they are so easily and implausibly deceived and manipulated by the Cabal. Also I hate their delineation of Ultramarines, which are one of my favorites.

So I researched, and more I study and inquire, I am only become more certain and over and over vindicated that Alpha Legion are overwanked and I wish to see as many as opposed evidences and counter opinions and objections.

In short, I am playing a sort of the Devil's Advocate.:wink:
Whether you love or hate Alpha Legion does not change the fact that you came here with a question just for providing your own answer to it.

And IIRC, you asked me the source of Alpha Legion and at some point deleted it. However of course, my memory is failable and it is possible I am confusing you with other person or even construct entire memory anew.
You're completely out of point. I come here to discuss and share, not to argue or troll. I can't see any reason to delete a post where I would have asked a question.

Paramar, Chondax and Alaxxes say hello.:)

Especially Alaxxes. They are so overwanked that some portion of Alpha Legion fleets are more than match of entire Wolves fleets.:(
Hello.
 

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The answer is yes. Clearly, all Legions are not equal and Space Wolves have no hope against full might of Alpha Legion even in the full frontal assault, and despite of their formidable psychic might, Thousand Sons are too small for making any difference.

Remember the fact that a splinter fleet of Alpha Legion was more than match entire might of the lauded Wolves and almost managed to obliterate them.
The Wolves were exhausted at that point and had suffered huge losses post Prospero. It's no coincidence the AL ambushed them at their weakest moment.
 
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