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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've recently written up a quick mock of a vamps list I wanted to try. I'm trying to make it competitive but still fun, fluffy and balanced. Any help is appreciated, please do take your time to read through.

Lords and Heroes

Master Necromancer - 265
-level 4
-Master of the dead
-Talisman of preservation

Necromancer - 115
-level 2
-talisman of protection
-(Dispel scroll definitely something I want, potentially another master of the dead)

Vampire Hero - 224
-level 2
-forbidden lore
-fear incarnate
-talisman of endurance
-enchanted shield
-heavy armor


Core

34 Skeleton Warriors - 200
-full command

34 Skeleton Warriors - 200
-full command

60 Zombies - 180


Special

19 Grave Guard - 320
-Great weapons
-full command
-banner of the barrows

2 Bat Swarms - 70

Spirit Hosts - 45


Rare

Black Coach - 195

Terrorgheist - 225


Total = 2049


Justifications / What I want

I wanted the vamp hero to be an awesome casty support unit, utilizing lore of light and beasts from forbidden lore, which is why I went for the ward save, just in case I miscast. Second necro just incase my master necro dies, so I don't start crumbling, do I need him at level 2? Skellies are going to be my "main" units I think, using augments and hexes to make them strong. I'm quite unsure about the grave guard, since I'm not sure how effective the augment / hex skelly units are going to be, if they do turn out to be awesome, I think I can drop the grave guard for something more versatile like black knights or hexwraiths. Bat swarms I think are really overlooked, the always strike last rule they throw on units sounds great on paper, and goes with my skellies to give them even more of an edge, but will they just die and do ntohing? Spirit host to keep monsters and things in combat with mundane attacks. Terrorgheist speaks for itself. The black coach is one I REALLY want to use, it just sounds awesome, but does it have a place in my army? It also seems kind of out of place from a fluffy point of view with the terrorgheist. I also kind of wanted another caster for some death / shadow action, just for the more hex side of things and direct damage.

So there we go, obviously I'm over, and I want your help to decide what I should cut and add to be under or on 2000.
 

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Master of the Dead is one Necro or Lord only maximum. You also have 3 casters with 8 potential spells to cast with 2d6 power dice (+ any lucky channels). You're rarely going to get more than 3 or 4 spells off a turn. Spending 350 or so points on 4 spells you can't cast is a waste. What lore were you going with for Forbidden Lore? You have to declare on your list in most competitive games. Death is arguably best for you with multiple casters as you can generate additional power dice with direct damage.

The Necromancer Lord's benefit for a Caster heavy list was his cheap cost and ability to improve skeleton units. Maximising use of them is a good plan.

If you're worried about crumble, pick up the Undead Legions rules in Nagash. Alternatively, keep your general in a smallish (20 or so) Skeleton unit you IoN up to size with a shielded Raise Dead Zombie unit which you keep at an angle to force any overruns to miss the skellies.

There's not much TK bring to the table for VC, the entirety basically revolving around.
Death Mask - I think its worthless for my style of play, as TK cannot ride Skeleton Steeds and I like the Knight-bus style
Necrosphinx - force you to choose between Terrorgheist or itself.
Screaming Skull Catapult - expensive, and supports an archer-based list to aid in causing casualties - basically, a TK army with VC extras rather than the other way around.
Casket of Souls - you need this in your life. More spells = more undead and more healed wounds, or more Undead Markers.
Heirotitan - more chance of casting spells/harder to dispel = more undead/more healed wounds/more markers.

Your Vampire is kind of crap for a fighty hero. 3 S5 attacks isn't bad, per se, but when you're spending 224pts on him, you can get that from a similar number of Grave Guard - which you can heal easier and don't suffer from only have 2 wounds. A 3+/5++ isn't that tough - considering that S5-S6 is pretty much the standard of combat troops you're going to want him to be up against, you're spending ~50pts on giving him a 6+/5++.

The second Necro as said isn't really needed - either by losing the Generals of Undeath as per Undead Legions, or the difficulty in actually killing him when he's got a 4++/Look Out, Sir and a blocking unit to stop chargers.

Grave Guard lack the numbers to be meaningful - they're one of the few naturally killy units in your army - giving it a high priority for your opponent. With obvious weak points compared to your other high threat targets (your Coach and your 'Gheist) - reduced strength and toughness, low saves, and Initiative, it's a perfect target for Dwellers/Purple Sun/Pit of Shades, Direct Damage spells, missile fire, and with low movement speed will suffer more casualties over time - with a Necro in your army, you're going to possibly be backlining it - so out of march range so it's even slower and not necessarily in Invocation Range either. It's an option for removal.

Bat Swarms kinda suck. Spirit Hosts outclass them nearly every single way. If Bat Swarms had a full Fly, then maybe they'd be better, but as is, nope.

Black Coach, erm, I think Dual 'Gheists is better, and haven't really used it due to the ugly model not making me want to even test it.

For a competitive list, you're splitting your army in so many ways - lots of characters, hordes of undead, big monsters, elite killy units, buffed dross. I can't really suggest an optimization route other than encourage you to select one of those and help you build around it;

For points of reference;

Vampire Lords - either blender, or unkillable versions work wonders. The Undead Legions 50% lords limit makes them even more viable in lower points games. Works well in Grave Guard, or Black Knights.
Necromancers - work better with massed skellies and zombies. Relying on things like Gheists, or I suppose the Black Coach will work does better here because it's slightly cheaper. However, you're going to want spells cast - which means that the Casket helps - but you can't double Black Coach+Casket - maybe a double War Sphinx+ Casket for similar results



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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Apologies for quite a late reply. Taken my scattered thoughts and compiled them into a decent list, thanks for the advice!



Master Necromancer - 265
-level 4
-Master of the dead
-Talisman of preservation

Vampire lord - 451
-level 3
-forbidden lore (lore of light/beasts will need a trial by fire to determine. Dropping forbidden lore for shadow is also a possiblity)
-red fury
-fear incarnate
-enchanted shield
-heavy armour
-talisman of endurance
-sword of swift slaying


34 Skeleton warriors - 200
-full command

34 skeleton warriors - 200
-full command

60 zombies - 180


Spirit hosts - 45

Terrorgheist - 225
Terrorgheist - 225


209 point under I believe, I still feel I'm lacking some real punch, as I can't tell how effective the lore of light skelly units will be in a 2k game, I intend them to be something like a units of empire guys with battle prayers that gets bigger and causes fear. I've never really used skellys before (I'm a tarpit with GG kind of guy), so I'm not sure how much I'm overestimating them.
 
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