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Deathwing Commissar
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By the by, in the Lucius short, the eponymous character isn't sure about how he came back from death in Angel Exterminatus, but we get a heavily implied answer from the author:

 

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Discussion Starter #62
Day 23! Advent Day Twenty Three - The Sanguinor: Exemplar of the Host!


The Story: For seven years the Blood Angels have warred against the Great Devourer on Skylos. For seven years they have fought and bled and died. Now, the war is almost over, and only a handful of the sons of Sanguinius remain. As they prepare to make their last stand, thoughts turn to the Sanguinor, said to arrive and bring hope in moments of great peril. But the Sanguinor is just a legend. It isn’t real… is it?
 

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By contrast, I can't help but feel that this is an attempt to make up for the handling of Lucius in Angel Exterminatus. Frankly, I felt like that was one of the weak points of the novel; it didn't really serve any purpose and it went against the grain of Lucius being this amazing prodigy. So what, now we get a short story that emphasizes what a badass this guy is? We knew that before a half fleshed-out character that featured less than almost any one else in the supporting cast (but happened to be a supreme swordsman as well) cut him down to size.
I disagree here that Lucius was handled poorly combat-wise just because he got beaten, at last. Nobody is unbeatable, Loken beat Lucius admittedly not with the sword but he did beat him, and Loken's defeat of Lucius in my opinion sums up real combat nicely. There are no niceties and no rules of honour, Lucius is almost unbeatable in formal combat and honour duels but in real war and gutter fighting, Lucius is handicapped by the fact that he doesn't really do that stuff.

And what does it matter that Sharrowkyn wasn't a main character? AE wasn't a Raven Guard novel so having an RG as a protagonist would just be weird, and if he'd appeared in other HH novels before it would feel like he was being shoe-horned in just to beat Lucius. Lucius himself has only appeared in two HH novels fully and a cameo in one or two others, it's because we know what he becomes that we see him as a much more important character to the series and expect him to be unbeatable but everyone loses now and then, even Lucius the Eternal loses sometimes. Plus practically every combat scene with Lucius focused on how awesome he was, so I liked seeing someone who was better than him.

It's the old argument that no matter how good you are, there's somebody better than you.


LotN
 

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Deathwing Commissar
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It's not that he got beat, though; it's how he got beat.

Lucius is actually a well-developed character. He has strengths and weaknesses, he possesses a personality - however unlikeable - and has motivations. Do all of the above still need to be fleshed out more? Sure. Graham's conceptual vision (see in the latest Black Library blog) is, in my opinion, more interesting than the execution we've seen thus far. The internal conflict that he mentions, between Lucius' desire for freedom discipline and his need for discipline, is something that needs to be realized.

Lucius' defeat at the hands of Loken worked well because it played into his strengths and weaknesses. We saw how the swordsman's arrogance can cause him to lose. Later, though, we saw why this haughty swordsman is as good as he is: he doesn't make the same mistake twice. In that sense, both characters were done justice: Lucius wasn't used as a punching bag for the hero or as a caricature, and we saw that Loken wasn't this invincible guy who always wins by virtue of being the protagonist.

Ditto for Lucius' appearance in the closing chapters of Galaxy in Flames. He is clearly a better fighter than Saul Tarvitz, but he's not necessarily the smarter of the two and the canny loyalist is able to stall him long enough for reinforcements to come to the rescue. The swordsman is forced to flee, his treachery is defeated, and the author didn't need to resort to an artificial plot device to defeat the villain.

By contrast, Sharrowkyn is just that plot device. He has little personality or depth other than the fact that he's a killing machine. He has "unparalleled knowledge of ambush tactics". He's an amazing sniper. He's even better with a sword. He has magical Raven Guard disappearing-reappearing powers. And, worst of all, he's only there to be this badass warrior. That's what sucks about Lucius losing to him. There were a dozen different ways Lucius could have discovered his immortality. Yes, meeting someone who was even better is valid on paper, but the execution was simply poor.

At the end of the day, this will probably be another topic that we need to agree to disagree on. In my eyes, Lucius getting beat for the sake of seeing him get beat is about as valid as Huron Blackheart making a guest appearance for the sake of having a big-name character show up. Such is life! :)
 

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Bane of Empires
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By contrast, Sharrowkyn is just that plot device. He has little personality or depth other than the fact that he's a killing machine. He has "unparalleled knowledge of ambush tactics". He's an amazing sniper. He's even better with a sword. He has magical Raven Guard disappearing-reappearing powers. And, worst of all, he's only there to be this badass warrior. That's what sucks about Lucius losing to him. There were a dozen different ways Lucius could have discovered his immortality. Yes, meeting someone who was even better is valid on paper, but the execution was simply poor.
Those are also some of the reasons why I've never liked Sharrowkyn as a character.
 

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Discussion Starter #66
I totally understand your argument that he is just a plot-device, but as the simple man I am, I look past that and finally see one bad ass Raven Guard for a change! But he should have been explored more deeply prior at hand, I can agree. :)

Day 24! Advent Day Twenty Four - Sammael: Lord of the Eternal Hunt!


The Story: Supporting the White Scars on Gehöft, Sammael, Master of the Ravenwing, prepares to aid Kor’sarro Khan against the plague-ridden warriors of Chaos. But when an ancient secret is revealed, Sammael must choose between the bonds of brotherhood and pursuit of the oldest foe of his Chapter.

Could potentially be interesting. Weird that Ben Counter would be the author though. Also as we in Sweden celebrate one day ahead of everyone else: MERRY CHRISTMAS or HAPPY HOLIDAYS everybody!! :grin:
 

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Discussion Starter #67
Day 25! Advent Day Twenty Five - Cypher: Guardian of Order!


The Story: For a select few amongst the First Legion, the Northwilds of Caliban hold a particularly dark secret. At the command of Luther himself, young Librarian Zahariel accompanies the Lord Cypher on one of his mysterious forays into the unknown depths. But an ancient evil is stirring once more and, with rumours of galactic civil war creeping back to their home world, it may have already sunken its claws into the Dark Angels Legion...

So Zahariel and Cypher finally makes a return here! Horus Heresy none the less.
 

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Just got home from the holiday's and decided to sit back and give the Cypher audio a listen. Found myself running into the same problem that plagues me in almost all Audio Books. I couldn't tell who the fuck was talking lol, I was constantly getting Cypher and Zahariel mixed up once they began conversing. Also, is anyone able to explain the ending? Zahariel's revelation is not sparking any memories for me, maybe I have to go back and reread Descent of Angels and Fallen Angels? I have no idea how to spell what the voice actor was saying so I cannot simply look it up on Lexicanum :laugh:
 

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Deathwing Commissar
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Zahariel realizes that the daemon from the end of Fallen Angels - the one he and the Dark Angels following Luther battled - has returned.

This shouldn't be a surprise since Zahariel knew the daemon hadn't been fully banished.
 

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Zahariel realizes that the daemon from the end of Fallen Angels - the one he and the Dark Angels following Luther battled - has returned.

This shouldn't be a surprise since Zahariel knew the daemon hadn't been fully banished.
Thank you, I figured it was a plot thread from the Heresy DA books that I have just since forgotten. It has been so damn long since I last read those books... About the only thing I remember from them is El'Johnson passing along the siege tanks to Perturabo lol....
 
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