[JimbozGrapes]

So today in a tournament I was helping my friend when an issue came up. My friend was playing my Eldar army, and he was playing Dark Templar i believe.

The issue occurred with a number of things.

This was how the attack went. My friends unit were all on jetbikes

X=Singing spear models
O=Warlocks with destructor
W=Other Warlocks
H=His troop of marines
D=Venerable dreadnaught
_=blank space

___X_W_W_X
DD_HHHHH_O
DD_HHHHH_O
_________W

Okay so here were the issues.

O, the warlocks with destructor, have a template weapon (the fire one)

He targeted the Dreadnaught with his unit of warlocks and farseer. The two Singing spears were in range, and the template just fell short of the dreadnaught, but covered the entire group of marines basically (twice because of the two having destructor).

Issue 1. Do the template weapons resolve over the marines, even though the fell short of there designated target

Issue 2. Do the singing spears get to attack still? (range 18", s9 against vehicles, assault 1). These weapons were in range.

Issue 3. With the jet-bike models, where is the template weapon protruded from? In the BRB it says from the base of the model, so would that be from the edge of the hull of the bike, or from the actual "flying" base? And are they measured from the middle, or the edge if it is the "flying" base?

Issue 4. At the same time he attempted to psychic hood my warlocks. Can warlocks be psychic hooded? It says in the Eldar Codex there powers are available permanently, and therefore do not need to make psychic tests to use them.

I was trying to help my friend play his first game, and got massively rules clumped from a single attack, so next time it happens i would like to be able to help more. All help is appreciated, thank you.

That's all i can think of that happened for now, but i may post more regarding this attack later.

 

[DeathKlokk]

1. Attacks out of range miss automatically, so No.
2. Yes, any shots actually in range may still fire.
3. The edge of the base, as normal.
4. With no Psychic Test taken the Hood has no way of being used as it specifically is used after a Psychic test is taken. Black Templar do have a vow they may take (although nobody does) where they get a save against Psychic attacks.

 

[JimbozGrapes]

Thank you very much, my friend ended up winning the game anyways, but had he been able to attack like that, he probably would have tabled the guy. We did do the psychic hood test, the shots didn't have range because we measured from the middle of the base, and the guy said he wasn't able to shoot the spears at the dreadnaught. Which I knew 100% was wrong, but he allowed my friend just to simply attack the troupe of units instead.

Gota love playing against win or lose rule bending players. Rules always seem to bend one way for them. hmm.

 

[DeathKlokk]

The rulebook is your friend in that situation. That's exactly why I buy all the Codices and rulebooks. No bending with me! :victory:

 

[Deathscythe4722]

Issue 1: I can't find a specific mention of this in the BRB. Under the section on Range, it says that any shots found to be out of range are automatic misses, and under the Template section it says as much of the target must be covered by the template as possible. Based on these two rules, my gut tells me that the flamer would not resolve if it was out of range of it's intended target, but there is nothing in the rules that explicitly states it doesn't.

Issue 2: Yes, they get to fire.

Issue 3: The Template is fired from the actual base of the model. The only units that measure from the hull are vehicles (ie, models with an AV).

Issue 4: No, Warlocks cannot be Psychic Hooded (does that sound like gang lingo to anyone else?).
A Psychic Hood may activate "when an enemy model within 24" of the Librarian passes a psychic test", and "warlock's power is available permanently, so he does not need to make a psychic test to use it".
He never makes a psychic test, so the psychic hood cant activate.

Edit: Ah DK you beat me to it! Damn my obsessive need to triple-check my rulebook!

 

[Wolf_Lord_Skoll]

Issue 1. Do the template weapons resolve over the marines, even though the fell short of there designated target
No. Page 17 of the rulebook states that any weapons which are not in range of any models in the target unit automatically miss.

Issue 2. Do the singing spears get to attack still? (range 18", s9 against vehicles, assault 1). These weapons were in range.
Yes, the Destructors miss, but that doesn't stop the rest of the unit shooting.

Issue 3. With the jet-bike models, where is the template weapon protruded from? In the BRB it says from the base of the model, so would that be from the edge of the hull of the bike, or from the actual "flying" base? And are they measured from the middle, or the edge if it is the "flying" base?
Not 100% sure, from the rules I would think the edge of the flying base.

Issue 4. At the same time he attempted to psychic hood my warlocks. Can warlocks be psychic hooded? It says in the Eldar Codex there powers are available permanently, and therefore do not need to make psychic tests to use them.

Psychic Hoods only work on powers that use a Psychic Test. The rules for them state that the target must first pass the psychic test before you use the Hood.

Hope this helps

EDIT: Heh, that's what I get from trawling through 20page long threads

 

[Grinnsira]

With much discussion, a few phone calls, and a few rolls of the dice we have one question. Did the dreadnaught have a base? A lot of people do not place the dreads on a base so it affects the ability to be in range. Besides that question it came down to this; in the spirit of the game yes the troops would have been hit with the flamer template weapons even if the dread was not in range. The flamer fuel, psychic energy wave, or green sludgy slime does not come out, say “oops! We cannot hit the target. Go back, go back, or watch out, weave around those troops and don’t hit them now that we missed the dread”. It goes somewhere (like down because of gravity). When shooting at the dread you are aiming for it so would be aiming over the head of the troops. If you are out of range its effective range so the rounds fly wide of the target, have lose the required power to penetrate, or have self destructed.
In playing this guy I would talk it over with him, if he pushed the issue I would let it go but drop him in the dirt on sportsmanship and fun to play with marks. It was a great strategic set up and the marine player made a mistake and hid behind the rules to recover. Sorry excuse for a player.

 

[don_mondo]

Grinn, the same excuse could be used for a blast marker that was out of range, but it goes poof and disappears if out of range. Same for templates. The Marine player wasn't hiding behind anything, he was playing by the rules. To drop someone on sportsmanship because they won't let you cheat, well, that's just wrong IMO................

 

[Grinnsira]

I read the rules on template weapons and it says that you place the template so that it covers the maximum troops or majority of the vehicle. It then says that anything covered or partly covered is automatically hit by the template weapon. Since this is a special weapon it does not follow the normal rules to hit. So as long as the template is placed so as to cover as much of the target as possible, even if it falls short it still automatically hits anything that is covered or partly covered by the template. That means all of the troops under the template.