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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Aaah Dan Abnett ! The professionnal in entire writing roster in the BL.





Not that I've said the best, tough.

Don't get me wrong, he's one of my favorite. He know how to write an epic story, can write some very witty and funny dialogue. Untill now, I never been really disappointed by a Dan Abnett novel or story. (If one did disappoint you, just tell me which one and why, your POV is interesting me.)

His writing gimmick always make me smile. (Especially, when he use italic policy to make actions and event description that more awesome. :grin:)

But Dan Abnett treatement of WH40K isn't without flaw.

You see, he love's the military and techno thriller stuff, I mean, the real one and I suspect that it played a role in his wrting with Battle of calth and Horus Rising. Sometimes, you read his work on ultramarine and almost guess there's a "USA" or "SAS" sigil instead of the Ultima symbol...:grin:

When I readed "Legion", I could almost mistake the place for a space Afghanistan or Irak planet. (Desert place... Veiled guerillero warriors... Yeah...)

Sometimes, he seems to ripp-off idea, like the Megarachnid in Horus Rising, who seem A LOT like the bugs from Starship troopers, or Iron Snake who made me think of a WHK Rip-off of 300.

But all in all I think his writing he's very good, and I'm glad he's helping to build the 40K verse. He's given some great concepts like the Perpetuals, the pariahs, which are all good idea to me. (Untill they began to overuse it, of course...)

I'm just afraid he will bow to the bad habits that haunt Black Library and start to use some of his plot or character toys too much, like I feel he's done in Unremembered Empire.

Your advice ?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I'm failing to see how Iron Snakes, is a rip off of 300? Sure the chapter is based heavily around Ancient Greek culture, but no more than the Space Wolves or Thousand Sons with the Norse and Egyptians respectively. But 300 specifically? Again, I really don't see the connection there.
I read it a long time ago, since someone stole me the book, all that's was left to me was my impression at the time. I confessed to have half forgotted the book except this odd feeling, but I can be wrong. :mrgreen:
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
40k is pretty much a total rip-off of everything. Ever.

Double Eagle is a blatant 40k retelling of the Battle of Britain. Does that make it a bad book? Hell no! :good:

Yet GW love swing the IP Hammer when somebody dares to copy them. I believe that could be called double standards :laugh:
I second that. :laugh:

It's just, some ripoff are more obvious than others, and some are more "in tune" with the general mood of a work than some.

Like you said, ripoff aren't that bad. I remember that a quite illustrious writers said that in the wrtiing world, "stealing idea" was too often defined as "research work". :laugh:

But you could ripoff something bad, and make it good. (And vice versa, alas !)
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
In sorry but comparing anything in 40k to America is just plain wrong
Of course ! :grin:

Yet, the feeling of the ultramarines in "Know no fear", (You know, "Theoretical/Practical" things...) is quite... evocative of a more modern army that I am used to in 40K.

That's why I said "USA" or "SAS", maybe I should have said "USMC" or "Navy Seals", maybe.

If I wanted to stretch the idea very far, I would have said that something like Calth is reminiscent of Pearl Harbor, Or 9/11 with a 40K scales. A fiendish attack surprise that cause a lot of mayhem, shock and disbelief. But maybe he was just influenced by the times, or I was.

And it doesn't help that the story is essentially constructed like many hollywood war movie.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Um....There isnt an army in the world right now that uses theoreticals and practicals....

And ultramarines act nothing like Americans in their mannerisms. From your logic i could easily say the Ultramarines are more Canadian inspired, as the Canadian military is much more disciplined and trained over the Americans.

The ultramarines are Roman insprired, Thats all
I'm not so sure for the Theoretical/Practical things, it sounds more like some military manual, which is perfect for Guilliman characterisation as the ultimate logistic/organisational leader.

No doubt that Ultramarines are inspired by the Roman empire, but "inspired" is the key word. Frankly, all Dan Abnett has really done is putting latin names and titles on some characters, and that's all.

When you get a closer look on Maccrage inthe Unremembered empire, it looks more like a modern country of the early twenty century.

And John Grammaticus looks more like a cross between James Bond and Jason Bourne, with a dash of Zakalwe from Consider Phlebas indeed.

That doesn't stop neither to be awesome, tough.
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
I watched that steaming turd once and the historian in me nearly suffered multiple aneurisms......
I go off the thread a little more, but as an history afficionados I do know that history and movies doesn't mix very well.

Too much different goals, and too much imperatives between the two.
 

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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
Of course soldiers come try to come up with an understanding of the battlefield, but name me one army on earth that says aloud to their fellow soldiers and commanders "The theoretical is ____, and the practical is _____". There isnt one. Again if we are going to compare the ultramarine to any modern army it would be the Canadians or the Brits for their supreme training.
I'm sure this statement it's not having anything to do with the fact your canadian ! :laugh::laugh::laugh:

(Just joking.)
 

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Discussion Starter · #40 ·
One of the things that really fucking annoys me about Know No Fear is that with the exception of a single marine that no-one envisages having to attack other legions; considering the Space Wolves background, and the World Eaters, and the role that the previous 2 legions, as well as presumably the fate of the Thunder Warriors, not having any concept of attacking another (especially as they train against one another too) legion is fucking preposterous.

Dan Abnett isn't as bad as Graham McNeil for using that as a story device, but it's a pretty large plot hole/fridge logic moment that bears explaining as to exactly WHY something like that is the case.
Tough your argument is quite valid, I would like to point that the Ultramarine legion have been forged by one of the most "orthodox" Primarch.

Space Wolves are seen as clinically insane savage but loyal to the end, and World Eaters as... okay, you got me there ! :laugh:

Seriously, the World eaters were seems to been quite loyal, even if savage. Nobody among the imperium seemed to imagine that chaos could infect a Primarch (Which is dum, I'm the first to admit it...) because the imperium citizen thinked they knew all there is to know about everything...

Then, I'm not sure the Ultramarines knew about the night of the wolf, they didn't seem to know about the red hand and the murder duel of the Night Lords...
 

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Discussion Starter · #64 ·
C'mon boys ! Play nice, all of you.

For the matter currently at hand, I think both party has a point : if the emperor would have expected a fight at Monarchia, he would have been escorted by the Space Wolves.

But his escort had to evactuate many whole city, quickly and rather cleanly, a work that the wolves were unsuited for.

Another point is concerning Aeonid Thiel, who, when the battle of Calth Began, as already on censure BUT about to be interviewed by Guilliman. Who know what would have happen if Thiel had the opportunity to defend his POV with Guilliman ?

Maybe the matter was about to be treated by Guilliman, but too slowly.

But the fact that the Primarch had to have someone else thinking of it for himself is a little beyond me.

But then again, micro-managing the Ultramar Empire, more than two hundred thousands ultramarines, their military units and their fleets while on a great crusade can be a titanic work even fr a Primarch I guess.

I always tough that one of the reason some stupid decision was made by the emperor was that he had a lack of empathy as much as waaaay TOO MUCH works.... :p
 

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Discussion Starter · #72 ·
Good points.

I personally believe guilliman to be the best leader(even above the emperor). He has all the qualities imo. He cares for his sons, can surely build an empire, and in general cares for the well being of humans. Him being the only primarch to have an actual family makes himself very human
I tend to agree with your POV.

IMHO, I think the emperor choosed Horus as Warmaster because Horus was truly competent, but also because he knew Horus would be hurt a lot if he didn't choose the Lunar Wolves's primarch.

Alas, by that time, he had already stomped the ego and the feelings of Lorgar...
 
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