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Discussion Starter #1
Aaah Dan Abnett ! The professionnal in entire writing roster in the BL.





Not that I've said the best, tough.

Don't get me wrong, he's one of my favorite. He know how to write an epic story, can write some very witty and funny dialogue. Untill now, I never been really disappointed by a Dan Abnett novel or story. (If one did disappoint you, just tell me which one and why, your POV is interesting me.)

His writing gimmick always make me smile. (Especially, when he use italic policy to make actions and event description that more awesome. :grin:)

But Dan Abnett treatement of WH40K isn't without flaw.

You see, he love's the military and techno thriller stuff, I mean, the real one and I suspect that it played a role in his wrting with Battle of calth and Horus Rising. Sometimes, you read his work on ultramarine and almost guess there's a "USA" or "SAS" sigil instead of the Ultima symbol...:grin:

When I readed "Legion", I could almost mistake the place for a space Afghanistan or Irak planet. (Desert place... Veiled guerillero warriors... Yeah...)

Sometimes, he seems to ripp-off idea, like the Megarachnid in Horus Rising, who seem A LOT like the bugs from Starship troopers, or Iron Snake who made me think of a WHK Rip-off of 300.

But all in all I think his writing he's very good, and I'm glad he's helping to build the 40K verse. He's given some great concepts like the Perpetuals, the pariahs, which are all good idea to me. (Untill they began to overuse it, of course...)

I'm just afraid he will bow to the bad habits that haunt Black Library and start to use some of his plot or character toys too much, like I feel he's done in Unremembered Empire.

Your advice ?
 

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When I readed "Legion", I could almost mistake the place for a space Afghanistan or Irak planet. (Desert place... Veiled guerillero warriors... Yeah...)

Sometimes, he seems to ripp-off idea, like the Megarachnid in Horus Rising, who seem A LOT like the bugs from Starship troopers, or Iron Snake who made me think of a WHK Rip-off of 300.
hell, he's an heck of a rip-off-man! :biggrin: He writes in a simple pleasant way though, and his novels are entertaining enough to be remembered :)
 

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The Emperor Protects
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I'm failing to see how Iron Snakes, is a rip off of 300? Sure the chapter is based heavily around Ancient Greek culture, but no more than the Space Wolves or Thousand Sons with the Norse and Egyptians respectively. But 300 specifically? Again, I really don't see the connection there.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I'm failing to see how Iron Snakes, is a rip off of 300? Sure the chapter is based heavily around Ancient Greek culture, but no more than the Space Wolves or Thousand Sons with the Norse and Egyptians respectively. But 300 specifically? Again, I really don't see the connection there.
I read it a long time ago, since someone stole me the book, all that's was left to me was my impression at the time. I confessed to have half forgotted the book except this odd feeling, but I can be wrong. :mrgreen:
 

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Heresy Online's Pet Furby
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40k is pretty much a total rip-off of everything. Ever.

Double Eagle is a blatant 40k retelling of the Battle of Britain. Does that make it a bad book? Hell no! :good:

Yet GW love swing the IP Hammer when somebody dares to copy them. I believe that could be called double standards :laugh:
 

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Discussion Starter #7
40k is pretty much a total rip-off of everything. Ever.

Double Eagle is a blatant 40k retelling of the Battle of Britain. Does that make it a bad book? Hell no! :good:

Yet GW love swing the IP Hammer when somebody dares to copy them. I believe that could be called double standards :laugh:
I second that. :laugh:

It's just, some ripoff are more obvious than others, and some are more "in tune" with the general mood of a work than some.

Like you said, ripoff aren't that bad. I remember that a quite illustrious writers said that in the wrtiing world, "stealing idea" was too often defined as "research work". :laugh:

But you could ripoff something bad, and make it good. (And vice versa, alas !)
 

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Dazed and confused.
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There are no original thoughts in any fiction, really. Ciaphus Cain is Blackadder in space, Gaunt's Ghosts is a reworking of the Sharpe novels. However, if you take an old idea and manage to put a new and original twist on it, which Abnetts does, good on ya. We have seen a BL author rip off others almost word for word, but it's not Abnett.
 

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Craw-Daddy
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I think its kind of harsh, though I know your not trying to be. I actually liked all his Heresy Novels thus far. Some more than others.

I would say that some of his novels are quite radical, like Legion, or Prospero Burns. However, if my time in the Heresy series has taught me anything, its that I would choose quality any day.

Horus Rising, still such an awesome book, and I really don't think the series would have gone this far without it.

As far as his "radical" pieces, I've always noticed polar feeling from either or both Legion, or Prospero Burns. In each instance, it makes each legion appear over powered compared to the rest. But I once wondered how the series would be if Dan Abnett could have written about each legion. It would have probably been impossible, but it certainly would have had a certain flow. There are very few authors in the Heresy Series that should be considered consistent, and along with ADB, I would say Abnett really fills that spot.
 

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Deathwing Commissar
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I think it's too easy to say that someone "ripped something off" or that he is "re-making" someone else's work.

Sharpe and Gaunt, to name an example, share very few qualities other than being imaginative commanders who care about their soldiers despite being thrust in a vicious war. Even fewer of those qualities are anything more than tangential connections (e.g., both Gaunt and Sharpe have a likable second-in-command whose death drives home the sense of loss to the reader).

And where the Iron Snakes of Ithaca are concerned, virtually the only real link between them and "300" is that the Spartans were a Greek people and Abnett looked to mythic Greece for inspiration. There is, literally, nothing explicitly Spartan about the Iron Snakes.
 

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There are no original thoughts in any fiction, really. Ciaphus Cain is Blackadder in space.
I think you will find Ciaphas Cain is a complete ripoff of Flashman rather than Blackadder so much so after reading Ciaphas Cain I got into reading the Flashman novels. Sandy Mitchell doesn't even try to hide the fact.
 

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I think you will find Ciaphas Cain is a complete ripoff of Flashman rather than Blackadder so much so after reading Ciaphas Cain I got into reading the Flashman novels. Sandy Mitchell doesn't even try to hide the fact.
There's as much Blackadder in there as there is Flashman. But thanks for helping prove my point.
 

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Cultural lens or personal bias, presumably. While some inspirations, homages or crafting techniques can be readily identified as intended, the reader can often draw comparisons that aren't really there based on what they bring to the text themselves, and even make a case for it.

I could probably make a good argument that John Grammaticus in Legion is basically Zakalwe from Iain M Banks' Use of Weapons with the edges filed off, but I don't believe for a second that it is in fact the case. More like similar ground and my own personal bias (I read about Zakalwe first and like the character) makes me draw the connection.
 

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Cultural lens or personal bias, presumably. While some inspirations, homages or crafting techniques can be readily identified as intended, the reader can often draw comparisons that aren't really there based on what they bring to the text themselves, and even make a case for it.

I could probably make a good argument that John Grammaticus in Legion is basically Zakalwe from Iain M Banks' Use of Weapons with the edges filed off, but I don't believe for a second that it is in fact the case. More like similar ground and my own personal bias (I read about Zakalwe first and like the character) makes me draw the connection.
In sorry but comparing anything in 40k to America is just plain wrong
 

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Thordis
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everything in Fiction is either based, or very similar to something else its neigh impossible to come up with something that has not already been done to some extend.

Lucius "the eternal", was already an esteblished 40K character before they started on the Horus Heresy series, this was simply a chance for them to flesh out his origins.

Ultramarines and Sas/Usa? I honestly am clueless how you got to this comparison.

the megarachnids came across more like proto Tyranids to me then anything else,.
And all things considered almost every bug like race in science fiction settings are based on the bugs of Starship troopers. so there is not much of a case there.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
In sorry but comparing anything in 40k to America is just plain wrong
Of course ! :grin:

Yet, the feeling of the ultramarines in "Know no fear", (You know, "Theoretical/Practical" things...) is quite... evocative of a more modern army that I am used to in 40K.

That's why I said "USA" or "SAS", maybe I should have said "USMC" or "Navy Seals", maybe.

If I wanted to stretch the idea very far, I would have said that something like Calth is reminiscent of Pearl Harbor, Or 9/11 with a 40K scales. A fiendish attack surprise that cause a lot of mayhem, shock and disbelief. But maybe he was just influenced by the times, or I was.

And it doesn't help that the story is essentially constructed like many hollywood war movie.
 

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Of course ! :grin:

Yet, the feeling of the ultramarines in "Know no fear", (You know, "Theoretical/Practical" things...) is quite... evocative of a more modern army that I am used to in 40K.

That's why I said "USA" or "SAS", maybe I should have said "USMC" or "Navy Seals", maybe.

If I wanted to stretch the idea very far, I would have said that something like Calth is reminiscent of Pearl Harbor, Or 9/11 with a 40K scales. A fiendish attack surprise that cause a lot of mayhem, shock and disbelief. But maybe he was just influenced by the times, or I was.

And it doesn't help that the story is essentially constructed like many hollywood war movie.
Um....There isnt an army in the world right now that uses theoreticals and practicals....

And ultramarines act nothing like Americans in their mannerisms. From your logic i could easily say the Ultramarines are more Canadian inspired, as the Canadian military is much more disciplined and trained over the Americans.

The ultramarines are Roman insprired, Thats all
 

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Thordis
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Of course ! :grin:

Yet, the feeling of the ultramarines in "Know no fear", (You know, "Theoretical/Practical" things...) is quite... evocative of a more modern army that I am used to in 40K.

That's why I said "USA" or "SAS", maybe I should have said "USMC" or "Navy Seals", maybe.

If I wanted to stretch the idea very far, I would have said that something like Calth is reminiscent of Pearl Harbor, Or 9/11 with a 40K scales. A fiendish attack surprise that cause a lot of mayhem, shock and disbelief. But maybe he was just influenced by the times, or I was.

And it doesn't help that the story is essentially constructed like many hollywood war movie.
Calth = trojan horse.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Um....There isnt an army in the world right now that uses theoreticals and practicals....

And ultramarines act nothing like Americans in their mannerisms. From your logic i could easily say the Ultramarines are more Canadian inspired, as the Canadian military is much more disciplined and trained over the Americans.

The ultramarines are Roman insprired, Thats all
I'm not so sure for the Theoretical/Practical things, it sounds more like some military manual, which is perfect for Guilliman characterisation as the ultimate logistic/organisational leader.

No doubt that Ultramarines are inspired by the Roman empire, but "inspired" is the key word. Frankly, all Dan Abnett has really done is putting latin names and titles on some characters, and that's all.

When you get a closer look on Maccrage inthe Unremembered empire, it looks more like a modern country of the early twenty century.

And John Grammaticus looks more like a cross between James Bond and Jason Bourne, with a dash of Zakalwe from Consider Phlebas indeed.

That doesn't stop neither to be awesome, tough.
 
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