Warhammer 40k Forum and Wargaming Forums banner

A simple way to build a decent Space Wolf or Codex Marine List.

6658 Views 35 Replies 16 Participants Last post by  Grokfog
In looking at the different "how to build a list" articles, you find a lot of great advice that talks about redundancy and duality, and the other words that end in "y" - which is certainly great advice. But I think we can simplify the process a bit more for the newer player while the 'bigger' concepts sink in. My personal observation is that most folks have NO idea how to build a list and (a) take whatever comes in the Battleforce box (b) read somewhere that x unit is AWESOME so they need one or (c) they try to mimic a "powerbuild" but fail to understand why X build works. So my goal here is to help newer folks get a sense of how to build a decent list without knowing a bunch of theory around list building.

One of the most useful concepts that I've managed to pick up is the importance of "torrent of fire". If you don't have the ability to pump out a gazillion shots every turn, then you better be awful darn tough because any good list you face will certainly be able to do that to you. I see a lot of guys on the forums post up list advice and all they have is 1 Dreadnought, 1 Predator, and 1 Vindicator which is, in my opinion, a surefire way to lose a game of 40K against a barely competent list. Think about it this way.... If we were playing chess and you start out with half the number of playing pieces that I have, then you're pretty much hosed right out of the gate. You have to be a genius and I have to be barely competent. In my perfect world, all games should come down to tactical ability and luck... Not "my list owns your list" - which is no fun.

So, the simple advice is to do this: for 2000 points I think you need at least 8-9 things that will pose a medium to long range threat (30"-48") In addition, they all need to be Str 7 or higher. This lets you pop transports, the big Tyranid bugs, and side armor on pretty much anything. You will also need some melta to get rid of Land Raiders and other things that get too close for comfort. You will need that many items because most good lists will have at least that many facing your army. And once your opponent can overload you with his shooting you're pretty much done (remember the chess analogy) So the goal is to have enough firepower to put a beating on your opponent's forces and so that the loss of any one or two things in a turn won't prevent you from hitting your opponent back. In other words, you gotta be able to give, as well as take, a punch to the face. If you have a glass jaw, then fight's over. Having only four or five units that can give a punch is setting you up to get KO'd when your opponent has 11.

Thankfully, you're not really all that rich in choices. So your decision matrix shouldn't too taxing on the brain. By the very nature of this method, you're going to fill out some FoC slots. So, out of the Marine Codex at 2K, you're looking at Razorbacks, Speeders, Rifleman Dreads, AutocLas Predators. For Space Wolves, it's pretty much the same except that you add Long Fangs and Living Lightning Rune Priests.

As long as you have at least 8-9 (BTW I think more is better) then you should be OK. You may not have a GREAT list... but you won't get stomped for lack of firepower. To scale this for 1500, I would suggest you have at least 7-8 effective things.

Even with this method, it doesn't guarantee that you'll build "the perfect list" - but it should ensure that you'll put up a fight and not get punked.

As an illustration - here's my 2K All Comers list for my Wolves

  • Rune Priest, 7 Grey Hunters (Melta and Power Weapon), Wolf Guard (melta bombs and Powerweapon) in a Rhino with PMSB
  • Rune Priest, 7 Grey Hunters (Melta and Power Weapon), Wolf Guard (melta bombs and Powerweapon) in a Rhino with PMSB
  • Wolf Guard with Thunderhammer, 8 Grey Hunters (Melta and Power Weapon) in Rhino with PMSB.
  • Long Fang Pack – 5 Missile Launchers, Squad Leader in Razorback with TL Lascannon
  • Long Fang Pack – 5 Missile Launchers, Squad Leader in Razorback with TL Lascannon
  • Long Fang Pack – 5 Missile Launchers, Squad Leader in Razorback with TL Lascannon
  • 5 Grey Hunters (Flamer) in Razorback with TL Lascannon
  • 5 Wolf Scouts (meltagun and melta bombs)
  • Land Speeder Typhoon (ML and Melta)
  • Land Speeder Typhoon (ML and Melta)

Lets count up the threats... 2 from the priests shooting Living Lighting, 3 from the Long Fangs, 3 From their Razorbacks, 1 from the Grey Hunter's Razorback and 2 from the speeders. For a Grand Total of 11 real threats every round.

Now lets look at another list... I call it the Best Little One Rock Army in the Carolinas - It's a single rock Codex Marine list I wrote because there are some guys at my local gaming store that just don't have models to drop a truly competitive list. So I set out to make a list that would put us on a more level playing field by reducing the threat to a limited degree. FYI - Single Rock armies are a BAD IDEA.... This exercise in list building was to take a bad idea and try to minimize it's inherent weakness (400 points in ONE selection)

So here's the 2K list....
  • Librarian in Terminator Armor
  • Terminator Assault Squad – 4 w/ Thunder hammer, Sgt with LC – In a Land Raider Redeemer with Multi Melta
  • Two10 man Tactical squads with ML and Flamer in Razorbacks (TL Las)
  • Two Rifleman Dreads
  • Three Typhoons
  • Three Preds (Autocannon and Las sponsons)
Counting up the points, I have a total of 9 threats (I count the 2 ML as only one threat per turn cause one will always miss) - By the "Rule of 9" - it's OK. Not great mind you, but OK.

Hope this helps....
Chris W
See less See more
1 - 5 of 36 Posts
I like this a lot. The wolves list is pretty solid I really like it. As a Person gearing up to take on the Irish circuit I can relate to a lot of the points.

The single rock is a very bad idea alright. It can be tarpitted or the rest of your army destroyed around it. I prefer 2 slightly weaker rock units for example, an assault squad with a priest in a crusader, assault terminators in a second crusader, both very powerful on the charge and seperately not a gigantic waste on points.

Another idea I've been doing a lot is having a mini rock unit, something like an honour guard appropriately tooled up, surrounded by other assault units. they all hit as one and easily wipe everything out. for me assault squads are troops so I can have a fair amount of scoring units in my list too. worth trying out, giving the scoring guys buffs like ICs to make them a bit more threatening.

a load of small stones can (sometimes) easily do what one large rock wants to do
Thanks, in the Wolf list, my troops are kind of mini rock like... between the Rune Priest (4), Wolf Guard (4), and Grey Hunter (3) I'm rolling with 11 powerweapon attacks on the charge...
Exactly. I found that having your normal squads built to a certain standard and Assisted with Characters and powers they become very powerful and can easily take on Rock Units. 10 man assault squad with lightning claw, 2 flamers and a sanguinary priest with jump pack(grand total of 290pts) took on a unit of 6 thunder hammer terminators(270pts) I lost 2 models and had them down to one terminator that I could kill in my opponents assault phase so I missed his shooting :) that unit went on to score an objective and win me the game :)

Basically what I try to say here is that you can make an army revolve around 2-3 units but they can be countered and then you're fighting uphill from then on. Don't just ignore the little fellas :)

Just letting you know CLT I'm not aiming this towards you Just think it's worth a mention for another decent build style :)
well list I'm currently trying out and have had great luck vs. my other successful lists ( my double raider list especially. this destroyed it :D ) is this one and it is hybrid.

Librarian – Jump pack, Unleash Rage, Shield of Sanguinius – 125pts

Sanguinary Priest – Jump pack – 75pts

Honour Guard – Jump packs, Blood Champion, Chapter Banner, Power Weapon, Power Fist, Flamer – 260pts

Assault Squad A – X10, Lightning claw, X2 flamers – 215pts

Assault Squad B – X10, Thunder Hammer, X2 meltaguns – 240pts

Assault Squad C – X5 – 100pts
Razorback – Twin-linked Lascannon – 55pts

Assault Squad D – X5 – 100pts
Razorback – Twin-linked Lascannon – 55pts

Attack Bike Squadron – X2 multimeltas – 100pts

Baal Predator – Heavy bolter Sponsons – 145pts

Baal Predator – Heavy bolter Sponsons – 145pts

Predator – Autocannon Turret, Lascannon Sponsons – 135pts

Total 1750pts
39 marines (bikes inc.), 5 Vehicles

honour guard makes a very good mini rock unit with 10 power weapon attacks, 5 at ws5, also with 2 priests I have a pretty good chance of giving everyone the benefits. I have them in an hourglass formation, large squad with librarian, honour guard, large squad, every one gets FNP then, and front unit gets 5+ cover save everything behind it gets 4+.
Attack bikes stay close to them and take on any enemy tank that comes close or just smash into any vehicles that get close really. Baal I originally had as 2 vindicators but they were too risky and were popped pretty early on for their threat value. baals I can outflank and hit long fang units or any held back units with ease, even getting a lot of shots into rear armour too.
the lazerbacks I use for their increased firepower and tagging with the autolas pred can pop most high priority tanks like raiders etc.

I used this against a list with 2 land raiders, a tooled up assault squad in one, assault terminators in the other and a vindicator. I lost 8 models in total. that list was tabled :)
See less See more
I have been fiddling around with lists a lot recently for BA and came up with 2 very powerful lists, one fully mech, one jumpers. They are easily the best lists I have used since I got into the more competitive style(actual tournament style) of gaming and They're both pretty effective.

Jumper army

Astorath – 220pts

Librarian – Jump Pack, Unleash Rage, Shield of Sanguinius – 125pts

Honour Guard A – Jump packs, X4 meltaguns – 205pts

Honour Guard B – Jump packs, X4 meltaguns – 205pts

Assault Squad A – X10, Thunder Hammer, X2 meltaguns – 240pts

Assault Squad B – X10, Lightning Claw, meltabomb, X2 flamers – 220pts

Assault Squad C – X10, power weapon, X2 meltaguns – 225pts

Vanguard Assault Squad – X6, Jump Packs, X2 lightning claws, X2 thunder hammer, X2 shields – 310pts

Total: 1750pts

Astorath is a good solid HQ with his chaplain abilites, Str 6, and the ability to get red thirst on a 3- instead of just a 1. It makes up for the lack of priests within the actual assault units. Vanguard are set up to take out pretty much any high target thing, MCs, vehicles, or just large priority targets like oblits.

Mech Army

Librarian – Terminator Armour, storm shield, Shield of Sanguinius, Unleash Rage – 145pts

Terminator Assault Squad – X6, X4 thunder hammers – 260pts
Land Raider Crusader – Extra Armour, Multimelta – 275pts

Assault Squad A – X10 Power fist, X2meltagun – 235pts
Rhino – 15pts

Assault Squad B – X5, power weapon, meltagun – 135pts
Rhino – 15pts

Assault Squad C – X5, power weapon, meltagun – 135pts
Razorback – Heavy flamer – 20pts

Attack Bike Squadron – X2 Multimelta – 100pts

Attack Bike Squadron – X2 Multimelta – 100pts

Vindicator – Siege Shield – 155pts

Vindicator – Siege Shield – 155pts

Total: 1750pts

Much more rock and medium range based but Still very effective vs. thunderwolf lists, lash lists, leaf blower it struggled with but once I'm in range they fall easily. The land raider is flanked by the vindicators, causing some serious target saturation. Vindicators, although usually frowned upon are very good in this list when teamed up with the bikes. They pop transports vindis hit the insides. Combat squad the 10 man assault squad to have a walk on objective holder later in the game gives a 4 possible scorers.
See less See more
Irish Tournament scene is full of Rock armies so TWC in 1750 has a good chance of coming up. Maybe not full TWC but definitely have one large unit of them. BA razor spam both work well against however
1 - 5 of 36 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.