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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi there. I have been playing 40k for about a year with a shooty army, but now want to try something different.

My regular opponents use the normal stuff: marines, orks, necrons

I am considering daemons or tyranids. Both look like a lot of fun to play. I have read up more on the daemons but do like the tyranid models. I deliberately chose there because they are more assualt orientated. My other army is very shooty.

Where do these two armies stand currently, are they competitive and above all fun?
 

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The problem with tyranids is the most competitive armies aren't very CC oriented at all, they're typically built around a lot of flying monstrous creatures shooting from the air. Daemons are a better CC army if that's what you're going for
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I havent bought the tyranid codex but am I right in saying that the tyrannids have more in the way of shooting options that the daemons whereas the daemons are almost a pure CC army?
 

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The daemon army can be pretty shooty as well because you get to use daemon 'engines' such as defiler & such in there along side your usual daemon troop choices
 

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The current niche is using Tzeentch Daemons with the Malefic psychic powers to summon even more demons. The new psychic rules favor them in scary ways to make a huge horde which eventually crashes like a wave against the enemy.

if you don't go that way, you can still create a strong CC army... there's very little shooting in a Demon army until you get to the vehicles; Flamer Chariots (which suck), Skull Cannon chariots, Soulgrinders, etc.

If you go Demons, Be'Lakor is a great addition, since telepathy makes them amazing in CC. Again, Psychic powers.
 

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Flamer Chariots (which suck),
I wouldn't say they suck, now that 7e means they can actually move and fire. They put out an impressive amount of flexible damage, they're just... fragile enough to keel over at the lightest tap. Still, throw on Grimoire and you have a 3++ save rerolling 1s, and that's hard as all hell to penetrate.

I won't argue the point, though, that Daemons are a 95% pure melee army. I mean, you could give every Slaaneshi squad leader a Lash of Despair or something if you were obsessed with the shooting side of things, but I dunno how effective that would be with only S-user attacks.
 

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The current niche is using Tzeentch Daemons with the Malefic psychic powers to summon even more demons. The new psychic rules favor them in scary ways to make a huge horde which eventually crashes like a wave against the enemy.
Malefic is great for summoning a couple of backfield scorers, but really, I've never seen a successful "I am going to summon all the daemons" list. Very few people have the number of models you need to pull it off, and I've rarely seen it with enough support to actually do anything. Killing 200 WS1 Str3 T3 dudes with a 5+ Invuln is actually really kind of easy. There's also the fact that every single Imperial army can bring a Culexus in a Drop Pod, and while he's a gigantic fuck you to pretty much any Daemon list, he's an especially big fuck you to Summoning Spam and Screamerstar (the latter of which he entirely negates, hilariously).

if you don't go that way, you can still create a strong CC army... there's very little shooting in a Demon army until you get to the vehicles; Flamer Chariots (which suck), Skull Cannon chariots, Soulgrinders, etc.
Agreed. Daemons have very strong mobile combat options, namely Screamers and Flesh Hounds. The former are built up into a max-sized unit, bring a bunch of Tzeentch Heralds to roll on Divination to get Forewarning, then add the Grimoire of True Names and Fateweaver to make it more reliable. They then rush around the field like a hare on crack strapped to a jet engine with a 2+ re-rollable Invulnerable save. Flesh Hounds are more reliable and less likely to result in a very lonely Daemons player; a whole bunch of fairly strong melee units, 60+ bodies, all Scouting and moving 12" per turn with Fleet. Sometimes, your opponent has enough close-range firepower to kill your Khorne dogs, but if they don't then it can get very messy for them.

If you go Demons, Be'Lakor is a great addition, since telepathy makes them amazing in CC. Again, Psychic powers.
Be'lakor is probably a little on the pricey side considering how many Telepathy rolls Daemons can get as well as the number of good Flying Monstrous Creatures they can get (the pretty much sole reason for bringing Be'lakor being guaranteed Invisibility and Shrouding), but he's certainly worth looking at.

Both armies are kind of difficult to play well, in my experience, but Daemons have always felt like they win through exploiting the rules rather than through being good at 40k; they're just too random to win conventionally, and the Daemons Codex is open to a lot of abuse through the amount of Flying Monstrous Creatures you can have, Screamerstar etc.

Personally, I think Tyranids are the more interesting army and certainly have more builds that can do well (and I'm speaking in the context of a group of friends - Daemons without their crutches are just that bad).
 

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I play Tyranids, and lament how every other army has more attacks in CC than me because of 2 CC weapons. If you can't kill something on the charge, you will more than likely lose the combat or be stuck in stalemate all game. It's hard to find a balance.

So I've given up on balance, and am playing lists I like. Lots of very fast combat units like raveners and Hormogaunts, backed up by *all* the MCs I can manage. *StompStompStomp* go the Big Things :D
One combo I've been trying is a Tyrannofex, surrounded by a swarm of Termagants and a zoan or two, drawing all the fire down the middle of the table whilst faster units (usually accompanied by Trygon Primes) flank down the sides. My flyrant and crone go off infantry/tank hunting (sobs that the flyrant can no longer land and charge in the same turn).

Basically, there are builds that are competitive, and there are builds that make your opponent wet himself at setup but need serious luck to win with. I favour the second. :biggrin:
 

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And we don't know what the new 'nid Psychic and Venom Monsters and the new Transport Pods will do to the Meta of the Army.
 
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