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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So I've got my new BA codex and there are good things and bad things galore it seems. Let me be clear, this isn't a comprehensive review or anything, it's just a few items of note for anyone who's interested.


Captains can now take artificer armour. Yippee!

We have our psychic powers back! As with every other race they're randomly generated (apart from one of mephistons powers) they're mostly the same as the old BA specific ones with a few changes.

Pretty much everyone has furious charge, and those vehicles that don't come with overcharged engines can upgrade to them (except land raiders)

No stormtalons for us. Oh well.

Tactical squads can take heavy flamers, and you don't need a ten man squad to take a heavy weapon. Still need a full squad for special and heavy though obviously.

Sanguinary priests and librarian furioso's have both been moved to HQ, so no more 1-3 priests as one choice but they're now two wound independant characters. Also the furioso libby can buy an extra mastery level. Chaplains are HQ as well now at their basic level, no more reclusiarchs :(

The elites slot is now incredibly, incredibly crowded. Not only have you got the usual terminators, vanguard, sternguard, vanilla dreads, furioso dreads and Sanguinary guard but death company and death company dreads are now in there too. Also vanilla dreads don't seem to be available as heavy support any more, just elites.

Now here's the real kicker, assault squads have been moved to fast attack. What?? Isn't the whole point of playing BA? Lots of assault squads? Nerfed. Just three now, and that's if you don't want any bikes or speeders.

Mephiston is now less points but his strength/toughness have both been dropped to five. On the massive bright side, he's now an independant character so he can join squads. He's also got fleet (meaning his whole squad will get it) and is mastery level three with access to a total of five different psychic disciplines. Comes with the sanguine sword power as default (S10 force sword) then rolls for his other two.

Dante finally has eternal warrior, and his axe is no longer unwieldy meaning he's initiative six with a strength six, AP 2 master crafted axe. Ouch. No longer makes sanguinary guard troops.

Astorath hasn't changed much but no longer makes death company troops.

We've also gained our own warlord table which mostly buffs the warlord himself and two BA specific detachments, one for a whole company and another for a Baal strike force which grants you an extra elite slot as part of your compulsory units to be taken. Both come with the red thirst special rule (+1 initiative on the charge) and re-rollable warlord traits. The company detachment also has objective secured.

Well that's it for now. I think I'm disappointed with the codex as a whole, the changes to the characters and the 'feel' of the list with regards to warlord traits/psychic powers/relics I think are good, but the overcrowded elites slot and assault squads no longer being troops really hits my army really hard. Just feels like that's taken away some of the BA's individuality, now we're more like a regular codex chapter with a few characters and units tacked on.

And good luck to anybody who ran all death company or sanguinary guard armies, doesn't seem to be an option anymore. Sorry guys.
 

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now we're more like a regular codex chapter with a few characters and units tacked on.
But thats what they are; Blood Angels and Dark Angels are very codex adherent chapters with their own quirks.

And good luck to anybody who ran all death company or sanguinary guard armies, doesn't seem to be an option anymore. Sorry guys.
I believe they call it unbound lists? Pretty sure GW made it possible to have just about any list you can think of thanks to that.
 

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now we're more like a regular codex chapter with a few characters and units tacked on.
just be thankful you still have a codex. were it for me BA would have taken the Black Templars traetment, honestly.
No offense but the whole army "feel" was about a special character, a furioso dreadnought and taking flying marines as troops. So well, you have a codex. I play chaos legions since the beginng...how do you think i've been feeling the last 8 years :D
Anyhow, rants a part, i think this codex got the usual nerfabatting / vanillaing than the previous. No surprise here, GW is toning down the divergences and the power creep a bit, so thats good for me. in the end you will like the codex. i did for chaos and dark eldars. cheers
 

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But thats what they are; Blood Angels and Dark Angels are very codex adherent chapters with their own quirks.

I believe they call it unbound lists? Pretty sure GW made it possible to have just about any list you can think of thanks to that.
You mean GW put in a 'rule' that said you could play like ypu had anyway, and noone actually plays because it is ridiculous?

Saying unbound makes an army viable is no defence.

I'm with nef on this. The only reason it wasBT'd was because GW knew that like DA, BA was well followed and would be able to make more sales. BT was fairly niche.

I think they should go back to a Space Marine list and introduce a divergency meter to allow renegades and divergent chapters, while Chaos has Fallen chapters and traitor legions.



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Actually, even with the changes to FOC, Blood Angels are still rather unique. Granted the HQ section is really full now but that sets you up for multiple builds around many possible themes.(I'll get to those.) The Elites are about as crowded as before because of the shuffling of some to HQs and while FA is a little more crowded, most players have a style that does not include every choice.

Even our limited Troops is not terrible when you look at some special rules. The BA Tac Marines and Scouts(as well as the whole army) have the potential to be better than their counterparts in other codices. By default, they are +1 Strength and Initiative when Charging. If you have a Priest, his unit is also +1 WS when charging and has FNP. If that Priest is Corbulo, the unit has an additional +1 Initiative. A WS 5, S 5 and I 5/6 Tactical Squad with FNP is pretty impressive and hardly common.

If Priests aren't your thing, BA can still field more Dreadnoughts than everyone else, at 6. (Assuming you aren't going Unbound.) Two Libraian Dread HQs and 4 Elites Dreads of your choice. Yeah, we used to be able to field 11, but that is a little absurd. And in this new configuration, all 6 can be front armor 13.

There are other options as well, especially with nearly everything receiving a drop in points, including unique characters. Sanguinary Guard are cheaper and can be squads of ten finally and Death Co with Jump Packs are a LOT cheaper and can score objectives now.

I know the OP said he wasn't being comprehensive and neither am I. There's just no need for all the doom and gloom associated with 40K lately. Everyone said the new DE sucked but I love it more than their last book. I can't say for sure with the new BA yet, as I haven't played them but on paper they look good. Let's remember that before the new codex, they were at a huge point disadvantage over other Marines. Now the BA are just as cheap but with some special rules and Fast Tanks that other Marines don't have.
 

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You mean GW put in a 'rule' that said you could play like ypu had anyway, and noone actually plays because it is ridiculous?

Saying unbound makes an army viable is no defence.

I'm with nef on this. The only reason it was BT'd was because GW knew that like DA, BA was well followed and would be able to make more sales. BT was fairly niche.

I think they should go back to a Space Marine list and introduce a divergency meter to allow renegades and divergent chapters, while Chaos has Fallen chapters and traitor legions.
I'll just stand as saying that Unbound is actually perfectly okay in the same way that Apocalypse is okay; you can certainly abuse the shit out of it if you want, but at the end of the day, what's the point? It's not like it's an achievement to come up with a win button for Unbound/Apocalypse, but it's so bloody boring if you don't play it in the spirit of a game and use it responsibly. For tournaments, obviously it can't be used, but if you play with friends, then Unbound is great and even moreso now that racial detachments are a thing (sure, you can go unbound, but the single best thing in the GK book is Rites of Teleportation so I don't really know why you'd bother - unless you had a Paladin/Purifier army, of course).

Assault Marines moving to Fast Attack is fairly odd, but since 2 5-man Tactical Squads with Lascannons fixes the problem and you were already running Devastators anyhow, I'm not sure it's the end of the world as people are saying.

I like a lot of the new BA stuff. A very solid psychic discipline is a nice touch; Heavy Flamers makes Tacticals so much better as they can actually be mobile, and more importantly, contribute to a Drop Pod Assault; Dante brings back Descent of Angels, if I remember the rules correctly which allows you to do Jumpers and stuff; Detachment bringing back +1 Initiative makes those Assault Marines in Fast Attack way better as they don't get punched and die while swinging and being able to get them to WS/S/I 5 on the charge is a very nice set of stats to have.
 

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You mean GW put in a 'rule' that said you could play like ypu had anyway,
It also allows them the freedom of making changes to codecies without older lists becoming completely unviable (beyond the removal of units.)

If you had a six assault squad BA force before this codex, you can still legally field it now. Would you deny a BA opponent fielding that list now with the new codex?

and noone actually plays because it is ridiculous?
What is that? Part of a few ruining it for the many argument?

Saying unbound makes an army viable is no defence.
Except when it does, since there are still some armies out there which cannot be created with the CAD and alternate codex detachments.
 

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I like the new 'dex. Makes me happy that there's so many different ways to play it based off what HQ you take- and there's a friggin' ton of them.

Something that makes me happy is a 10 point reduction in Jump Packs for Characters.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
That makes me happy too, and as archon dan says the death company jump packs went down a lot. I've calmed down a bit now from my knee jerk reaction at reading it for the first time and there's still good options in there as you guys have pointed out. Am I happy about assault squads being fast attack? No, but the list still gives you a lot to play with. I'll come around :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Although on the jump pack/character theme, has it ever struck anyone as odd the mephiston and corbulo can't take them? I mean these are two of the highest ranking members of the chapter, so fluff wise they'd definitely have access to them. What are they, allergic or something??
 

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I think that BA is probably the second best 7th ed release; whether that's because it's fairly solid or because all the releases have been lacklustre is up to you. I'd rank it below Orks, but definitely above Dark Eldar and edging out over Grey Knights (purely for the loss of squads having unique psychic powers and Psybolt being a bit hit of the new GK book that, while made up for with the introduction of Psilencers as a real if niche gun, the improvements to Dreadknights and Terminators, the additional +1 Strength on Hammerhand and the addition of Rites of Teleportation, is still a noticeable loss).
 

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Jump Packs are pretty cheap for Vanguard and Command Squads as well, a mere 2 points more expensive than for Death Company.

Despite Tactical squads being the new go-to for Troops, there's a lot of Blood Angel flavour to add to your list to make it fit right. Even in the fluff beforehand I always thought it odd that each Company had ~6 Tactical squads and only 2-3 Assault squads despite the latter being Troops in the Codex. The change makes sense as far as fluff goes in my opinion. I think my new core of Troops will be two 10 man Tactical squads with Heavy Flamers and Melta Guns in Rhinos. Heck, I might even start playing my Scouts more often.

Really digging Priests and Libbynaughts as HQ choices. Libbynaughts dropped to a buck 50 for points, and you can upgrade them to ML2 to put them at odds with what they were before....though they were stock ML2 before. Nice to have the option to save those points I suppose, though ML2 is pretty much always going to be purchased for mine. Magna Grapples being a free trade for Smoke Launchers on normal Furiosos is a nice touch as well, Move Through Cover is crucial for a CC oriented unit. I always forget my Smoke anyway.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I always thought the blood angels should have had a slightly different organisation to their companies to emphasise their close combat orientation. Something like four tactical, four assault and two devastator squads per company would have been about right.

My problem is I pretty much ran librarian/priest led assault squads as a 'first wave' with dreads coming in behind. Except for the dreads nearly every every unit I took was jump infantry. Tactical squads only ever turned up as objective holders and to bulk out the list in bigger games. This is reflected in my model collection too meaning I'll have to have a sit down to plan out what I'm gonna change/buy. Good thing that new BA box is so pretty.

Does magna grapple give you move through cover? I must have missed that.
 

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Well...This dex is not bad, just kind of sad that the Baal Predator got moved to heavy support and lost the scout rule, this was my go to for fast attack choice, Now it competes with vindicators and the stormraven for the slot. I also do not like the Dante and Seth are lords of war, i guess they tried to offset this with the san priest being cheap. Land raiders as dedicated transports for troops is no longer a thing.
What i love is the tac getting the heavy flamer, something i have been waiting for since i started this hobby. I also dig the warlord traits.
 

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Does magna grapple give you move through cover?
Move through cover and re-roll charges against tanks.

i guess they tried to offset this with the san priest being cheap
A Priest w/ jump pack and power sword is the same point cost that it was before, except now you have to pay 1 point for the bolt pistol and he's an HQ.

I also dig the warlord traits.
I got the 12" Fearless one in my game today, and while I got absolutely wrecked (I forgot two of my drop pods) that trait was actually useful.
 

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Sounds like my playstyle doesn't exist any more. Sigh. Not being able to take Libbies and Priests is a massive blow, as is the loss of double-special ASM as your scoring units, they outperformed Tacs in every single role. Losing Baals and DC/DC Dreads in their respective slots is another kick in the balls, massively reducing the number of archetypes available to players. Jumpers, AV13 wall, Angelwing... all fallen by the wayside it seems.

Competitiveness aside, the loss of flexibility always disappoints me, specially since none of them were broken or auto-pick in any way.
 

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I actually fielded Tactical Marines before, along with my Assault Marines. It just made sense given the fluff and that you wanted a decent backfield, Scoring unit. With all the changes to Scoring and the Maelstrom Missions, Jump Packs are more appealing but not necessary. Besides, in a big enough game you can fill the Elite and FA slots and get 7 Jump Squads. Not terrible.

As far as new strategies go, I'm looking at Tac Squads in Drop Pods. The build will vary only by the optional weapons. 1: Flamer, Heavy Flamer and Combi-flamer(combat squad optional). 2: Melta and Combi-melta with Heavy Flamer combat squaded. 3: Plasma Gun and gunslinger Plasma Pistols with Heavy Flamer(combat squad optional). These should operate similar enough to the Assualt Squad versions. The all Flamer version comes to an even 200 points with the Drop Pod. And many other options are there for other units too.
 

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Although on the jump pack/character theme, has it ever struck anyone as odd the mephiston and corbulo can't take them? I mean these are two of the highest ranking members of the chapter, so fluff wise they'd definitely have access to them. What are they, allergic or something??
The same reason that any other Chapter Master can, but doesn't wear any other generic kind of armour/equipment. Why don't all Chapter Masters carry a Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield and wear Terminator Armour? Personal choice, fluff reasons. I'm sure if the need for Mephiston to use a Jump Pack came, he'd be there, a bit like if there was a need for Grimnar to leave his Terminator Armour at home and don the Jump Pack, he would.

As to why the options not there in game, "balance" reasons (alright, not even I believe that one), and that GW don't like producing so many options that they can't cover for them in their preferred plastic (each mould costs a lot) leaving the way open for Chapterhouse.

In regards to the comments about Unbound - I don't see why people are making such a big deal out of Unbound - when among friends, play how you want, and sod points limits, FOC's etc, introduce homebrew rules and knock yourself out. Unbound however rarely has its merits in pick up and play games as rarely is it used for anything more than lets see how much I can spam X-broken unit. Very rarely have I ever seen anyone use "Unbound" rules simply because they want to use the models they have - especially in a world where there are rules for allies and that Combined Arms and Allied Detachments have the game winning Objective Secured rule, and formations exist which allow you to capitalise on particular units (i.e Deathleaper Lictor spam which recently won a high profile tournament, despite them being considered naff - yet the list still fulfilled the Battleforged armies).

Unbound is not an answer to those who spent the last X years playing by the rules to be shat upon by a great height.

From a pure gameplay mechanic, you're looking at the unique ID thing that BA had going for them (ASM as troops), and replaced it with shooters that can give up shooting to be marginally better in combat with their 2 AP- attacks on the charge, which a) may not reach and b) makes you take another overwatch to the face. However you wrap it (WS5? Cool hit on 3's. So do your bolters. Wound on 2's? Well against T3, they have a 5+ save which would be nullified by your Bolters - and a 33% chance to save outweighs the +17% chance to wound, while against T4, they either have a 3+ save and you shouldn't really be charging AP- troops with only 2 attacks and only charge bonuses into them in the first place, or in the event they have a terrible save like Orks are typically taken in so many numbers that the additional 2-3 models you kill with that charge will result in you getting mobbed and locked into combat where you can no longer charge, can't shoot, and can't overwatch.

Fluff has been the flavour behind the rules which I like, but it shouldn't influence unique selling points as it puts it in contention with other armies that do similar.

Look at space wolves - if it wasn't for their unique flyers and wolf cav, their previous unique selling points would have been additional HQ's, unique Psychic Powers, Elite Scouts, Power Armoured newbs, Double Special Weapon tacs and Wolf Guard which could be independently placed - all of these could have been rolled into the Marine 'dex easily - the flyers could easily become an STC for the Imperium and wolf cav could just be primal beast cav - Salamanders on Salamanders (i herd u lyk salamanders bro), addition HQ slots could be dropped just because there's no real call for it, Psychic Powers all come from the same place and added to a selection of powers in the dex for Marine psykers to use, Elite Scouts could be an upgrade for Scouts, or just offered their own place in the elites section, same for "bloodclaws" while Double Special Weapon Tacs have been a thing in 4th so could last longer - while Wolf Guard have become a unit in their own right and also sergeants. No real biggy. It's only fluff which makes them unique - but to sell the models and the rules, they become unique selling points.

BA's unique selling points are now a Baal Predator which shares the same slot as everything else that remotely does the same job, a Special character, and the lack of some Space Marine options like Thunderfire Cannons and Bike troops. The rules are little more than deserving of a Black Templar, Sentinels of Terra or Clan Raukaan treatment for the Space Marine dex, but because of the huge amount of BA players out there, they knew that they'd be able to get away with selling a full BA dex which was little more than a tweaked SM Dex. Even Dark Angels, for all it's fall downs doesn't fall into that category, especially after the 4th edition Dex and its denigrating.

ASM now actually have a chance of being okay (can't remember if they have Power Weapon special weapon options still), but as a result of being moved into FA, they lose much of their interest, as you have to have a 180pt-ish tax to even do that, and they don't get ObSec. Of course, their major other FA selections are bikes (go play SM instead if that's what you want - they can at least get ObSec bikes with a 3+ Jink), Baal Predators (but are now HS), Storm TalonPotatoes (but BA don't get them because reasons) and Land Speeders (because fast jumpy armies prefer to get supported by heavy units rather than nippy little heavy weapon platforms, obviously - of course the Desert Rats were supported by Churchills and other heavy tanks in WW2).

What is that? Part of a few ruining it for the many argument?
Don't be obtuse. While hyperbole, I've yet to find a GWS that plays Unbound armies, recommends unbound, or makes unbound a selling point. I've yet to see a "serious" tournament play Unbound rules, and I've yet to see more than a couple of games where people actually play with Unbound as opposed to just getting enough models to play allies.



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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Possibly a daft question, but I'm out and the rulebook is at home, can you take allied detachments of the same faction? Such as BA with BA? I know assault squads no longer have objective secured but I'm trying to think of a way to fit all the ASM's I have since they outnumber tactical marines 3-1 in my collection, plus it's very much my play style.

I agree with what you're saying Vaz, at this early stage it does seem like they've tweaked it just enough to validate keeping them as a separate codex. Assault squads can only get power weapons on the sergeants if they upgrade them to vet sgt's, and while I'm fine with no thunderfire cannons it would have been nice to have more flyer options to back up the jump troops than a stormraven (although I do love my stormravens)

Is anyone out there pissed that assault squads can't take a razorback anymore? I've seen a lot of lists filled with 5/6 man squads in RB's with the lascannon+twin linked plasma option. I never used it myself cause I prefer the jump list idea but I know a few people who do.
 
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