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I was playing a pickup game the other day against a chaos player using the new dex, and ran into quite a few odd rules that I would like cleared up by the vets here. I sort of suspected him of cheating, but didn't want to make a big deal out of it. I just want to know, so when I play him again, I can be better informed. (we're both regulars there) This is what he said worked.

1. He claimed that abbadon's termie retinue can consolidate. and that abbadon gets 5+2d6 attacks in CC?
2. Spawn can have three saves. Armor, feel no pain, and something else which was never really named.
3. Feel no pain is a special save which means you have to roll above half of a weapon's strength. (So for a bolter, it would be two or higher), and can be combined with other saves.
4. Spawn get 15+2d6 attacks in cc. For a supposed max of 27.
5. Everyone on the board gets to reroll their saves if abbadon is in play.
6. Abbadon and his retinue can disembark from a vehicle and charge into cc the same turn.
7. Havocs don't need to pass target priority tests if huron blackheart is on the table. (???)

Again, i don't play chaos, so i have no way of confirming this, but if that's so, than i just have one question: why would anyone in their right mind bitch about the new chaos dex?
 

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I know nothing of chaos, but this is my gut instinct.

1. termies can consolidate, just not sweeping advance. probably lying though
2. doesnt seem wrong, could possibly be combined with bionics or some such thing.
3. feel no pain is in the regular rulebook on pg74, unless it has changed it is 4+ == no wound (although I kinda like this version better) looks to me like spawn cant even have this.
4. sounds ridiculous (was this per model?) AB40k tells me that they get D6 attacks.
5. sounds ridiculous, AB40k says nothing
6. if it was a landraider this is fine, NOONE that I am aware of can charge out of a normal vehical that is not opentopped.
7 concidering the tau have other things of roughly equal or better power, this does not seem crazy. but AB 40k says nothing.

My gut instinct tells me this guy was cheating or just didn't understand his rules very well. I wouldnt play with this guy ever again, and I would tell everyone at the game shop not to play with him either.
 

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>> Apart from no 6, its all pish. Dudes trying to screw you over. No models gonna get 27 attacks. Get a squint at his codex, or ask him to show you where these rules are printed. If he stutters and stalls, he a piss-taker, who needs dealt with in a horrible, cheat beating way.:eek:k:
 

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Time to break out the codex....

1. Terminators. Honestly, not sure. I was always under the impression that Termies can not make sweeping advances... Consolidate is ANY unit in close combat, so I'll give him that one.
2. Lie. Spawn get NO saves. period. They do NOT get feel no pain as far as I can see. They can't be Marked, so they get nothing according to their profile.
3. Feel no pain is a core rule from the primary rule book. 4+ save, basically.
4. Spawn get D6 attacks.
5. Abaddon does NOT grant any bonuses to other units on the table.
6. See above. A Land Raider grants this ability. If no Land Raider was used...
7. Huron does NOT grant any bonuses to other units on the table.

Beat this kid with a trout.
 

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Wow...this is the most BS I've seen in one report. Seriously, this dude needs a beat down. I can understand a couple/few bad interpretations of rules, I'm likely one of the loosest players around...but Cadian...you got rooked. Hard. Was this a kid or something?
Either way, I'd never play him again without having a sit down about sportsmanship, , lies and cheating...and the definition of "blacklisted". Players like that are a pox on the game (well...any game).
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks guys, I'll have to get a copy of the new dex, cause unfortunately he's a regular there. He is a kid yeah, and I'm pretty sure he was cheating willingly.
 

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I was playing a pickup game the other day against a chaos player using the new dex, and ran into quite a few odd rules that I would like cleared up by the vets here. I sort of suspected him of cheating, but didn't want to make a big deal out of it. I just want to know, so when I play him again, I can be better informed. (we're both regulars there) This is what he said worked.

1. He claimed that abbadon's termie retinue can consolidate. and that abbadon gets 5+2d6 attacks in CC?
2. Spawn can have three saves. Armor, feel no pain, and something else which was never really named.
3. Feel no pain is a special save which means you have to roll above half of a weapon's strength. (So for a bolter, it would be two or higher), and can be combined with other saves.
4. Spawn get 15+2d6 attacks in cc. For a supposed max of 27.
5. Everyone on the board gets to reroll their saves if abbadon is in play.
6. Abbadon and his retinue can disembark from a vehicle and charge into cc the same turn.
7. Havocs don't need to pass target priority tests if huron blackheart is on the table. (???)

Again, i don't play chaos, so i have no way of confirming this, but if that's so, than i just have one question: why would anyone in their right mind bitch about the new chaos dex?

I know this has already been sort of resolved, but I feel inclined to add my two cents anyway.

In the words of famed fictional Sergeant Hartman, "Jesus H. Christ!" It's possible the kid just didn't know what was going on, but that'd be awfully generous given what you've posted... there's cheating, and then there's cheating. Damn. I'd either teach him the game properly, or not play with him. Up to you.

For your handy-dandy quick reference, though...

Abaddon and any retinue CAN consolidate. They can't make a sweeping advance. In fact, consolidating is ALL models in terminator armour can do after close combat. Abaddon gets his profile number of attacks, which I can't recall atm, but 5 sounds right, plus D6 attacks from his daemon weapon. On a 1, he doesn't attack at all though, and takes a wound since his sword has had enough of doing whatever Abaddon is doing. Abaddon is S8 with that many lightning claw attacks, though, so... heads up with that.

Spawn most certainly do NOT have three saves. In fact, they don't have ANY save. And he doesn't have any real control over them. They move (slowly) towards the nearest enemy unit in line of sight. They just sort of do their thing, and are a minor annoyance. They're Slow and Purposeful, but charge as Beasts (so they roll 2d6 and add the results for their charge range.) They're also Fearless, but that comes with the territory of being brain-dead.

Feel No Pain is a universal special rule that you can find in the main rulebook. It reads (paraphrased) that any unsaved wound which was NOT inflicted by a weapon double the model's toughness or by a close combat weapon that ignores armour saves may be ignored on a 4+. For example, a Space Marine with Feel No Pain gets a 4+ save after taking a plasma rifle shot, but not after getting hit by a krak missile or cut down by a power weapon.

The only thing that gets that many attacks is The Infamous and Mighty Great Unclean One (also known as the small child of one of the regulars here who likes to climb on the table...). But seriously, Spawn have d6 attacks. NOTHING in the game has 15 attacks base. I'd suggest that he read the profile wrong, except the 5's in a Spawn's profile aren't anywhere near its attacks characteristic. It's a 40 point model. That ought to tell you right there that there's something fishy. And then there's the fact that 15 attacks is more than a daemon prince can throw. Maybe if it was like... one of those squiggoth-sized spawn that forge world sells, but that wouldn't be a 40 point model.

Models only get to re-roll their armour save if their name is Harry Sack or something equally juvenile and clever. Some models in the game have wargear that lets them re-roll a single armour save once per game or something similar, but certainly not the entire army. Abaddon is a scary badass, but the safety of his minions isn't real high on his priority list.

When you consider that Abaddon and crew can only ride in a Land Raider, that's actually not BS. Now, if they were chugging along in a Rhino, then you have a slightly different issue, since Abaddon can't get his giant self into a Rhino while he's in terminator armour, and if his retinue is in Terminator armour, they can't either, since a Rhino can't carry Terminators.

Havocs don't need to pass their priority tests if they decide they want to shoot the closest enemy target. Huron Blackheart doesn't confer anything special on units on the table. No special characters have any influence on target priority checks. For what it's worth, the kid was worried about the wrong thing... Chaos Space Marines are all high leadership... the odds of the Havocs deciding they were going to shoot the nearest target instead of what he wanted them to shoot is slim to none, particularly with an Aspiring Champion directing traffic. In short, every single model in every single army follows the Target Priority rules in the main rulebook.

Huron, for the record, does have the ability to use the Warp Time psychic power, which gives him re-rolls for whatever he feels like re-rolling for the most part. He also has a heavy flamer power fist o' doom. But that's pretty much it.

Isn't insecurity over a game a bitch? Honestly, I've never understood cheating at games. Congratulations, you won because you cheated, and it's not like you really won anything... just a game. Doesn't make you a better person or anything. Next time, you should ask him if cheating makes him feel like a big man. haha...
 

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Cadian 81sts I see that you have over 700 posts here... I find it hard to believe in 700 posts that you never knew any of these rules, have never read the core rule book, or would believe any of the BS that you said on this board.

Anyone who has spent any time playing this game could smell the BS a mile a way from the stuff you posted here. If it was just one or two things you posted I might be able to understand but some of this is just total garbage... How or why did you post these questions??
 

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I hate peeps who cheat once when i was a newbie my friend told my that saves were cumulative(he got a 5+ cover save a 4+ invul save and a 3+ normal save)Complete BS.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
That's sort of what he was doing, taking invul, feel no pain, and re-rolling both, although he was pretty green (Didn't have much of an army, used all GW hobby supplies, mispronounced a few words etc.) and as I've only been playing for 2 years, I'm not exactly in a position to chew him out for it.
 

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Hate when people do that 2 new players. I dont mind playin a lot of armies but what i hate most is a cheater who takes advantage of new players when he should be helping them.
 

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We have a couple of guys like this in my club.
Hieronymous and Hrothulf (not their real names :D ) - they are brothers.
Mostly, people don't want to play them because they cheat so much.

I tend to tap the rulebook or codex and go "Show me where it says that, and you can use it that way." (they usually say something about an online FAQ, and 'it's so unfair') but shut up after a few minutes of whining when it's clear that no-one is listening.
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
Hate when people do that 2 new players. I dont mind playin a lot of armies but what i hate most is a cheater who takes advantage of new players when he should be helping them.
He was newer than i was i think, looked to be about 13. I was playing a pretty complex army list (DH with SM and IG allies, and it was apoc, so i could take both) as lists go, so looking back I'm surprised he though he could trick me. He was pretty arrogant though; i had to hold a position on the board, and his necron ally offered him about forty warriors, but he turned them down, claiming he could beat my entrenched SM and IG with just his chaos.
 

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Wow...just...wow.

I suggest you buy the chaos codex (It's an excellent book anyhow) read it, then roll it up and start beating him over the head with it untiul he either leaves or stops moving.
 

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As pointed, a lot of those were over the top.

Side bar: I haven't checked the chaos codex in a while, but I was under the impression only Land Raider Crusaders allowed disembark + CC in the same turn... or was that only for after moving in the vehicle? (meaning normal LRs unload before moving, and then cc).
 

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All Land Raiders have the Assault Ramp, which allows units to disembark and then charge.

The Crusader's main advantage is the Frag Assault Launchers, which are basicallly frag grenades for anyine charging out of it into cover.
 

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Another point... Chaos doesnt get Crusaders.. they only get generic LRs the last time I read the dex...


*Reads again*

Yeah still just regular LRs... no Crusaders.

You've been playing for 2 years and some little newby 13 year old punked you out like that??
 

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worth noting BTW: Chaos raiders don;t have machine spirit.
 

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I am just stunned reading that. Cadian, I have to agree with Bishop just a tad about you not catching those things but shit happens. But I just can't believe someone would so blatantly cheat like that. I wouldn't play that kid again and would make sure on top of it that EVERYONE knows about it as well.

The Crusader's main advantage is the Frag Assault Launchers, which are basicallly frag grenades for anyine charging out of it into cover.
Don't forget the ability to carry 15 troops or 8 terms as opposed to 10/5 as well. I friggin -wish- we had access to them.
 
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