Warhammer 40k Forum and Wargaming Forums banner

1 - 7 of 7 Posts

·
Craw-Daddy
Joined
·
4,472 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Composition of the Chaos Gods

In the 40k realm I get a bit skeptical of anything being called a "god." We have had many of these so called "gods" that in reality are just beings to strong for most mortal beings to control or defeat. Even the Emperor to some degree has this god-like facade. I think where I really questioned the immortality of the Chaos Gods (The big 4 that is) is the fact that their lesser kinds... the minor chaos gods have been consumed and possibly destroyed by the big 4. And I was wondering about the possibility that the 4 predominant Chaos Gods are actually made up of many minor chaos gods whose aspects are able to exist in the one being of the particular chaos god. In a sense, it does make that concept that the Chaos Gods have always existed... even when they didn't. They were simply in bits and pieces.

One reason why this important to look at is because there has been fluff that has stated that the major four have consumed other minor chaos gods, and that even when a major chaos god releases some of its energy to create chaos that it could take it right back.

The reality of the Chaos realm is that their is an undivided sector... or at least realms that do not co-exist with the other 4. This brings a question that I will entertain in a bit, which is whether or not there is restraint from the Chaos Great 4 to consume energy, emotion, that doesn't reflect their own.

"The Chaos power can reclaim power and independence it has given to its Daemon children at any time, thus ensuring their loyalty." (Page 7 Chaos Daemon Codex)

This tad bit here is interesting. I think at first you ask... is that so? We haven't seen any examples of this, and in fact... many cases, we have seen the opposite. Whats interesting there is when it says... "to ensure their loyalty." The reason why this is interesting is the idea that one can make sense of Chaos Daemons fighting for other particular gods due to the fact it could achieve something so grand that the lesser daemons could not even fathom it. However, why doesn't it just say that? There seems a hint of precaution in this one line. This brings up questions. Firstly, why would a Chaos "God" especially one of the big four be worried about their lesser daemons getting out of line? When one reads the Daemon Codex, one can actually sense a huge bias for the 4 greater powers. There is almost nothing on Undivided, the minor chaos gods, and their followers. In fact, it says this about non-chaos believers. As such, I think that even Chaos Codexes and lore should be taken with a grain of salt. I used to think they were unbiased works, however, the lack of certain information... particularly on the undivided sector can be very telling.

"When a follower of Chaos dies, their soul in the Warp do not fade and disappear like the spirits of others. Instead their immortal energy, their souls, are swallowed into the greatness of their gods, sustained forever, increasing the eternal power of Chaos" CSM Codex Page 8 (6th Edition)

Particularities of Chaos Gods

Why is that? And is this particularity true? One thing that seems a bit farfetched is "followers of Chaos." It is fair to assume that this means even those who do not directly follow chaos persae. For example, the Eldar souls are consumed by Slaanesh, simply because their essence contains certains particularities that attract Slaanesh. We also know that many beings unintentionally worship the Chaos Gods.

When talking particularities of the Major 4 Chaos Gods, we have to ask whether there are certain forms of energy that the Major 4 won't or cannot consume. For example... how often is it that the Major 4 actually consume daemons/energy from the other major 4?

"For Long periods one god may dominate the others, fed by its own success, leeching its foes energy for its own growth." (Daemons of Chaos Codex Page 8)

"No Chaos God can ever truly be victorious, for if all other Warp Powers were obliterated, the Warp would become a still, unmoving mass and Chaos would no longer exist." (Daemons of Chaos Codex Page 8)

As one can see, there is some major contradictory information. Chaos Gods don't consume energy from those who do not worship them, but they consume energy from other Chaos Gods. The major 4 Chaos "Gods" cannot ensure that the energy they have absorbed remains theirs forever. If the lesser daemons are formed from their energy, it seems farfetched to suggest that a Chaos God can simply take back its power from its daemons whenever they want... "to ensure loyalty." A Chaos God could possibly take that energy back, and perhaps at will in some certain circumstances... but will it always happen is something different.

Dwelling into the concept of absorbing energy that not traditionally reflects what the actual Chaos God is both happening and not happening. In one sense, it happens to gain for The Great Game. On the other, it doesn't seem to particularly happen because the Chaos Gods are not interested. Perhaps, the Chaos Gods must be careful of what kind of energy to absorb.

A Chaos God Falls Apart

There is evidence that shows they do not consume energy that does not reflect what the particular Chaos Stands for as well as the fact that all the four major Chaos "Gods" have lost some of their energy. Is it possible that since the Chaos Gods have absorbed certain energy that does not reflect their pure identities that they lose it in other forms besides it being consumed by the other 3 Major Chaos Gods? They are known to have consumed Minor Chaos Gods, as well consume energy from the other 3 when they are winning, and possibly consuming souls of those that aren't particularly representative of their true aspects.

Another question is whether there really is a pure set of aspects the make up the Great 4. It goes back to another question I proposed if the Great 4 are compromised of certain minor chaos gods whose aspects strongly melded together to create them in a single identity. If so, it would make sense that some of the energy consumed by the Great 4 is not forever belonging to them. Perhaps some of that energy is purposely released or allowed to separate. Whatever the case is, I believe that one can entertain a new aspect of what the 4 Major Chaos Identities are.

I haven't read some of the newer 7th edition codex's, so any new information is greatly appreciated. However, I have read in a few areas this concept of Ynnead, the future Eldar God. It said that in the future it would destroy at least one of the Major 4 Chaos Gods. At the very least, the concept brings this idea of the possibility of the destruction of a Chaos "God." From what we know of a Minor Chaos god, is this precaution of being absorbed/devoured by another Chaos God. The "fear" (though probably an incorrect term) seems to be of a Chaos God losing its identity as a whole. It also bring back this idea in the 40K universe of a "God." Are the Chaos 4 God's? I think that no matter what your concept of what a God is at the very least shrinks and is put into an entirely different perspective when identifying what they are in the 40K realm. As such, is it possible that since the Great 4 are composed of many different aspects (for example Khorne represents blood, bravery, conquest, and probably several others) that if they are destroyed that they would essentially "shard" like the C'tan or Khaine.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,694 Posts
Mmh.. good stuff here. A bunch of thoughts:
-They are "gods", in the wider sense. they are immortal, they rely upon mortals to exist, they can manifest powers or miracles beyound science and human comprehension
-I don't think gods can be really destroyed, they simply are scattered and partly consumed by another god, thus losing any self-coerence
-i think that they can consume any kind of soul, and this gives them power, but i guess they can tap power from living beings that worship them. So it's better to have worshippers (usable as snacks in case of necessity) than only victims.
- about the aspects, yes, the 4 gods are comprised by many emotions and urges that collectively make them whole. they can be more complicated than their cliche could suggest. This makes them uber-mortals? Nope. This makes them just more powerful godly creatures.
-About the Great Game stuff: i see the Warp energy as a big bowl of water, and any god has a syphon in it. They all suck this water for themselves and sometimes it happens that a god syphon it more than the others (he's winning the Game). Then either he just crumbles on its aquired power, he naturally lose grip on it or the other 3 coalize and beat the shit out of him: the water returns in the bowl and the syphoning contest begins anew...
Just some ramblings.
GLORY TO CHAOS!!!
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
10,978 Posts
Think of Time as a table, mortals as the items on the table, and the gods as those standing around it. Some of them can reach the whole table, while others are blocked by each other.

Tzeentch for instance, isn't impeded at all, he can reach every bit of time before him.

The Eldar gods can reach the Prime of the eldar empire, but can't reach past the Fall because Slaanesh blocks their reach. Likewise, Slaanesh can't reach the past because the eldar gods are blocking that part of time from her.

Remember that time doesn't actually flow in the warp, so it means that each god technically always exists, but sometimes others simply usurp their power for points in time.

It's a messy analogy, but it's what I came up with in the scope of two minutes. :laugh:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,003 Posts
Daemons always goes on about 'The Deceit of Time'. like seen in Palace of the Plaguelord, where a Lord of Change punishes an impudent mortal by sending him back in time to witness his personal tragedy again without any power to alter it. But noticeably worser off from the first time.

But the warp have always been outside the timestream of the material universe. Those entering it may emerge as expected. In a distant future, or even long before they originally entered it. There was a novel where a guard regiment was sent to investigate a distress call, which turned out to be their own future distress call.

Or being trapped in a stasis pocket, such as Sahaal.
 

·
Craw-Daddy
Joined
·
4,472 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
The minor Gods and undivided are potentially the most interesting part of Chaos in my opinion. Its interesting how Serpion says there are some gods that just can't squeeze in.

The one quote I posted about souls who simply just vanishes (due to their ability to worship) into the warp is very telling. It brings the question of whether some souls are different types of energy and the "gods" are different generators. In fact, if we remember how Furries are made, they are essentially followers who couldn't decide on one or the other.

We can only guess about what goes on this side of Chaos. Furries, Daemon Princes, and Gods of undivided seem to have aspects of an entirely separate conscience in the warp. Maybe even several.
 
1 - 7 of 7 Posts
Top