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Dazed and confused.
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Hopefully we see a new Abbadon mini sooner rather than later. Any thoughts on who might make up a Chaos triumvirate with him if they go that route?

Faction Focus: Chaos Space Marines​
Who is Frankie, and Why should I care?

Frankie is part of the team that runs some of the biggest independent Warhammer 40,000 events in the world, including the Las Vegas Open, the Bay Area Open and the recently announced Southern California Open. An avid player for years, with an impressive tournament record, he’s also been part of the playtest team for the new edition of Warhammer 40,000, putting in hundreds of hours to make sure this new edition will be great for all you gamers out there (Thanks Frankie!).

So, basically, he know’s his stuff.

Today, we start a new article series where he (and a few others) will talk about how the new edition is going to affect specific factions, and what units they think we’ll be seeing more of. We start off with Chaos Space Marines – take it away Frankie…




Hello Warhammer Community readers! Frankie here from the SoCal Open Gaming Convention to talk to you about the (alleged!) bad guys of the 41st Millennium and some of what to expect from them in the new Warhammer 40,000: Chaos Space Marines. Okay so maybe they’re actually pretty bad, especially after Abaddon’s success in destroying Cadia, but we all know the False Emperor is the real bad guy here….

I myself have always enjoyed playing Chaos; the models are incredible and their back story is the best. The interactions between the Chaos Lords is amazing as well, as most of them don’t respect (or even like) each other but will join up to win battles and earn glory for Chaos. My favorite thing about Chaos is the Daemon Engines that they have in their armies. Flying mechanical space dragons breathing warpfire that burns your soul? Sign me up!

Chaos armies usually lean towards close combat, which is not what you normally see from a lot of armies in Warhammer 40,000 currently. Chaos has a solid control of the psychic phase as well, with the nasty Sorcerer Cabal that has been rampaging across the tables around the world – very fitting for an army that largely calls the warp home.

The troops you usually see on the field are the bravest humans in the galaxy, the Chaos Cultists! The Cultist Champion will challenge any foe that is willing to accept no matter how powerful they are. He usually doesn’t do anything that would impress the Chaos Gods, but at least he is willing to try!

Now for the moment everyone has been waiting for: how does Chaos play in the new edition? It has been a long time since we’ve seen Chaos armies with a lot of power armour on the tables, but no more! In the new edition, you will be seeing a great many Chaos armies, and a lot of them will have power armour in abundance! Yes, you read that right, you will want to have Chaos Space Marines in Chaos Space Marine armies!

Make sure to dust off your Havocs and gear them up for business as they are going to be helping the galaxy burn, baby! The changes to Heavy weapons have made these guys a great choice to help defeat the deluded lapdogs of the Emperor.

I cannot remember the last time I saw Havocs on the table, and it is a very welcome sight! Make sure to have a fully stocked arsenal as those lascannons, autocannon, missile launchers and even – you better believe it – heavy bolters, as they are going to be doing plenty of work in this new version of Warhammer 40,000!

They will provide excellent cover fire for your Chaos Terminators which will now strike fear into the hearts of your opponent as they bring devastation to the battlefield where they are least expected.

Abbadon has always been a bit of a disappointment to me. I have tried to play him in countless armies, but he often just ended up poking himself in the eye with Drach’nyen and not accomplishing a whole lot. Well how about we change that around and allow Abbadon to kick some serious Imperial tail?

Your wish is Games Workshop’s command, and now Abbadon has the rules to stomp face all along the Crimson Path (no surprise here, but he’s claiming credit for the Great Rift). Cadia was just the first step! He is a force to reckon with and inspires his Legion, allowing them to dominate the battlefield with an incredible ability which I will not spoil for you here. He is also a monster in combat, as his back-story would suggest, tearing people apart with the Talon of Horus and Drach’nyen. Imperium, be prepared for the Black Legion to cast an ominous shadow across the galaxy once again.

As stated above, your Daemon Engines will be rightly feared as well. With the changes to rules we’ve seen in vehicles, these furious engines of destruction no longer need to worry about being destroyed by a single lascannon shot as they prowl the battlefields.

Lastly, I want to talk about some of the most savage close combat fighters in the galaxy: the Khorne Berzerkers.

These guys are supposed to be feared for their brutality and combat prowess. Well, guess what? They will be – start fearing them now. Khorne will be pleased with this newest iteration of Berzerkers… very pleased! One of the key things that makes these blood-hungry units so good is the change to charging, as now they all get to swing first in a turn in which they charged. No more getting wiped out before they have the chance to hit anything.

What about chainaxes, you ask? You will want to arm all of your “Blood for the Blood God” warriors with these bad boys. Wait…Blood for the Blood God…what does that do? I guess you will have to wait and find out when these warriors hit the tabletops, but trust me, blood and skulls will be reaped!

That is truly just the tip of the iceberg, too. So many units that have languished on the shelves are going to rise up from the ashes to wreak havoc on the tabletops and provide hours of fun.

Well, I hope all you Chaos players are as excited as I am about this new edition. Make sure to get all those unfinished Chaos models ready for battle so you can hit the tables and planets in style!

We’ll be back in a few days to here from Reece about the Astra Militarum.
 

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Grand Lord Munchkin
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Finally, my shit-pot of D20s are going to have some use besides just sitting in my dice bag. In all honesty though, I really like what I am seeing in this post; they've made vehicles tough as hell and the damage component seems like it is going to add a nice bit of narrative to combat.

I have said this before, but the more I see regarding this new edition the more I look forward to it.
 

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I'm stoked to dust of the D20's as well, very OK with how large models are being treated. It may be a bit more to remember with each vehicle potentially having a unique damage table but it's way more characterful than one high strength shot ending a full health vehicle.
 

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interesting news about chaos. they really..listened...to the internet roaring, it seems.
More power armour? Check
Fix failbaddon? check
Make zerkers great again? check!

I don't get the havocs part, though...i usually field them, they are not so bad (better than a defiler, for shure)

we''ll see how this translate in the rules.

in any case i would not be so tempted to field big blobs of cultists anymore, thanks to the stupid morale rule. If chaos marines are even better, now...well, Merines MSU ad libitum!
 

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Today, we’re going to look at the little guys.

The new Warhammer 40,000 will give infantry a chance to shine. There is stuff you just can’t do with very well with vehicles, bikes and walkers, like hold ruins, use cover effectively and swarm the battlefield in numbers to claim every objective.



One thing that is certainly going to help infantry out is the fact that everything can harm everything in the game. We’ve heard already that characteristics don’t cap at 10 anymore, so the old 10×10 strength vs toughness table was in for an update. In the new edition, there’s a simple but elegant system to find out what you need to wound:



So, you can see that while even the humble lasgun has a chance to take down the biggest foe, you’ll need a lot of small-arms fire to really threaten the big stuff. We’ve already seen the profiles of a Space Marine, a bolter, a lascannon and a Gorkanaut, and now we know all the steps to work out just how such a Shooting phase might go. Some quick maths tells us that we’d need over 500 bolters firing at that Gorkanaut to bring it down, whereas you’d need just over a dozen lascannons. So, while you might occasionally chip the odd wound off with bolters, lasguns or shootas, you might find that your standard infantry guns are better used elsewhere.

Not a problem though, because in the new Warhammer 40,000, models in a squad can fire at different targets. So, this means your Tactical Squad can have your boys with bolters deal with that onrushing Hormagaunt horde, while the flamer bathes a nearby Lictor in prometheum fire, and the squad’s krak missile takes an opportunistic pop-shot at that onrushing Carnifex – just as you always imagined they should!

Infantry is going to have a lot to offer a cunning general in this edition.

Tomorrow, we’ll take a look at how characters work, join us then.
Split fire is interesting. Makes sense the way they're explaining it.
 

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Split fire for all: dear god, that was about time...
 

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Split fire for all: dear god, that was about time...
This is shaping up to be quite the sensible set of rules! I like that they offered us some simple maths saying that it would take ~300 bolter shots to kill a Gork/Morkanaut; I mean who has that kind of bolter output?

*Looks at Imperial Fist players who collected battle companies in the last edition :laugh:
 

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This is shaping up to be quite the sensible set of rules! I like that they offered us some simple maths saying that it would take ~300 bolter shots to kill a Gork/Morkanaut; I mean who has that kind of bolter output?

*Looks at Imperial Fist players who collected battle companies in the last edition :laugh:
well, i actually despise this rule... i will never try to kill it with bolters...but i can definetly kill an imperial knith off its last couple of wounds with bolters and lasguns. And that is ridiculous. It is outrageous just like the one-shot-explode vehicles. Anyway, splitfire for all is really a boon expecially for mixed weapons units that will be very useful! I imagine my old chaos kill team fielded with success (rhino with havoc launchers, 10 marines, heavy bolter, flamer, powersword) that's unbelievable! XD

EDIT: also...did it means that Str 4 wounds T 7 at 5+ ??? AH!
 

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That to wound post does seem to imply that instant death may no longer be a thing.

Which I'm okay with, if there are going to be weapons dealing multiple wound damage then ID will probably no longer be necessary.
 

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This is all making it seem to me like everything is going to die quite quickly. Add that to the super formations from earlier and a wish to sell more models I think maybe this is going to mean pts reduction so more models on the table that die faster.
 

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I'm liking the new rules set.... so far.

Is it me, or does a fair bit of this seem to draw from 2nd (or at least a very old edition). I seem to remember some of this from when I started playing with mates in the classroom. Maybe its just a ghost memory.
 

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This is all making it seem to me like everything is going to die quite quickly. Add that to the super formations from earlier and a wish to sell more models I think maybe this is going to mean pts reduction so more models on the table that die faster.
The new armour pierceing setup does seem like it will be murder to a lot of infantry, but bolters and flamers are now 0 so it seems as though armour piercing weapons and multiple wound weapons are going to be fairly rare.

They've said that although anything can now wound anything else, it really will be a matter of targeting the right enemies with the right weapons if you want to get anywhere fast.
 

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I am thinking those larger formations are geared towards larger Apocalypse level games. I don't think it should be assumed that points are being slashed based off of those. Even with the rules being 'faster' adding that many more models to the table would bog a game down.

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They can do what they want with the points, honestly. Competent gaming circles will simply adjust the points levels of their games to keep themselves comfortable. A few editions ago, 2k or 1750 was the norm. In most games I've had under 7th it's been 1500 and the model count isn't much different.

I can't speak for every army, but I can say for certain that necron and tyranid points costs have shifted noticeably over the last three codexes they each had. The majority of units in the less points direction.
 

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I don't disagree about groups adjusting, I just don't see points being cut enough to make that large formation viable in less than 3-4k points.

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I don't think the points are going to change all that much. Looking at Space Marine Tac Squad, as GW seems to view these as the baseline for everything else. That and I could only find the following information quickly. RESEARCH!!

A Tactical Marines squad (w/10 men, Veteran Sergeant, flamer and missile launcher) with a dedicated Rhino (basic nothing fancy) is currently 205 points. Now compared to editions back to 4th here, (Space Marine Point Costs Over 3 Editions | Wargaming Hub) the only change is 4th to 5th edition.

The average cost for the humble tactical squad has changed very little. What did change, however, were the options of putting them together. For comparing point costs, I used a 10-man tactical squad with veteran sergeant, a flamer, a missile launcher and a no-frills Rhino.
4th Edition Codex Dark Angels: 215 points
Tactical Marines in the 4th Edition Codex, even with the mentioned options, weren’t that much more expensive. What they lacked, however, was flexibility in the build. You could only pick a basic 5-man squad (with the veteran sergeant) or a full 10-man squad. There were no discounts on special or heavy weapons, making these 10 points extra.
5th Edition Codex Space Marines: 205 points
5 Tactical Marines with veteran sergeant in 5th Edition cost the same as in 4th Edition. Every added Space Marine, however, actually became a point more expansive! In return, one could now add single Marines on top of the basic 5, allowing oddly numbered units of 7 or 9 Space Marines. Moreover, special and heavy weapons became 5 to 10 points cheaper across the board, making some even free for units of a certain size.
6th Edition Codex Dark Angels: 205 points
6th Edition seems to have embraced flexibility above all. As seen, the cost for a basic unit like this is identical to 5th Edition. However, where 5th Edition was a “package-deal” with a veteran sergeant and “free” weapons, the 6th Edition unit is build from a bare-bones unit of 14 pt. Space Marines. However, all options (incl. the veteran sergeant) cost extra. Special and heavy weapons returned to 4th Edition costs (or more in case of the missile launcher).
So, it looks unlikely that point changes are a big thing, as GW hasn't changed them much over the years. However, I would think that what changes they implement will be minor balancing to newer factions/units, Knights, Mechanicus, Guilliman, Chaos.
 
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Thing is, let's say they cut that cost in half, that's still over 600 points for the mini of that large formation, then with everything else added.....

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I agree with @Roganzar it seems that units that get the biggest point change are either a newer unit (so less testing time) or their role/style is changing to fit their new codex - See Tyranid Warriors from 4th to 5th.
 
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