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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
With the eagerly awaited 8th edition rulebook release just round the corner i'm wondering as to how the rules affect the different army options.

Does any army in particular benefit from the new rules? Is any army nerfed by the new rules like Necrons (40k) in 5th edition?

Maybe we can use this thread to list the armies and affects of new rules for each of the phases.

Your comments please
 

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Tomb Kings and 8th Edition

Relatively new Tomb Kings player but I played my first game with the 8th edition rules last night. 750pts so needless to say I lost very quickly and very badly. I'll keep this quick.

-Tomb Kings cannot create a legal army of less than 680pts.

-You must field a Tomb King between 680-860pts. Tomb Prince cannot be used in less than 860pts. (This is due to 25% restriction on Lords and Heroes and the requirement of a Liche Priest.)

-You can field a chariot army at 750pts! :biggrin:

-The random charge range adds strategy to the movement phase. Big improvement overall.

-Tomb Kings can dominate the magic phase now. Opponents will normally have no more than 6 dispel dice and usually less. With tons of bound spells and incantations they can't possibly dispel them all!

-Got rid of the partial hits under templates! :clapping:

-Only played one game so I'm trying to take this in stride but...Tomb Kings players need to develop a new strategy for melee because none of our old tricks work. Our Core units are literally the worst in the game for close combat.

To sum up:

Magic good!
Close Combat very very very bad!

Also FIRE BAD!
 

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Dark Elves haven't really changed all that much, from what I can see. Even their tournament armies were fairly balanced in terms of units and characters. You might have to drop a hero choice or two or a rank off your Black Guard in order to have more repeater crossbows/spearmen, but that's not a gigantic change.

The major thing for me is that I will no longer be taking Dark Magic unless given a very good reason to. The Lores in the Core Rulebook outstrip codex lores in almost every way - especially considering you cannot have multiples of the same spell.
 

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see im liking and disliking the new rules: tomb kings is an od one, alo of rules aee contradictory and very confusing now: acording to head office, tomb kings roll for the 2d6 power dice like everyone else, they dont us etheir 2d6 and 3d6 dice for each guy anymore, they use the power dice :/ of course we still cant miscast or fail to cast :) but are wizards also dont have levels, so no extra for are casting and are books says so nicly, liche priests cast ONE spell and high priests can cast TWO spells, so we are still very limited in the magic phase :(

tzentch deamons are now rubbish!!!! :) since they are limite dby dice and spells it aint looking good for them :)

vampires and dark elves )depending on what they do to Khemri) will be the major magic uses, since you have the ability to get more dice :)

teclis now suffers badly :) every double is and irristable force/miscats :O

Yes farseer, 800pts games :) the restriction is just 25% on lords :) hmmmm i wonder how many goblin shamans with magic musrooms you can get in 3K with the 25% restriction???? :D

moster armies are now more viable, ogres are now a VERY good army, they get ranks and fight in ranks :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
well lets hope the new tomb kings codex will be with us very soon then, they sound broken under the new rules.

How do Warriors of Chaos fare with the new rules? Heavy destructive magic users that they are.
 

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I found the random movement charge is balanced by the ability to strike in initiative order though HE abuse this with ASF, they have lost alot of specilaied units elsewherre such as running 2 dragons and another mage in 2250pt lists.

The new magic phase looks very much in favour for my WE as it stops alot of magic abusing armies such as Tzeentch armies, Lizardmen, DE and Daemons.
Also by the sounds of things alot of armies magic is no longer going to be used due to better common magic lores so to speak, though I have found with new ally rules the WE magic is still a great help and even by itself.

Combat I'm still not sure of due to using an army not heavy in block infantry.

I havent read fast cav stuff yet but hope it hasnt stuffed there movement style around
 

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Its actually a 50% cap on characters lords 25% heros 25% a 25%minimum for core 50%max special and 25% max rare so you can play your Helfs happilly at 2k.
The only rule I really don't like is that special weapons like spears, halberds etc have to be used so no more turtling up with hwp and sheild when you get charged by something scary although this will stop the chaos warrior armies choosing the best weapon for the job, How this affects Ogres iron fists and Black orcs armed to da teef is as yet unclear.
 

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We don't know what the FAQs will do, so some of the issues may well be addressed there. I'm thinking my OK army will be being dusted off and put back into the rotation, due to STOMP. And I'm pretty sure if OK magic isn't redone, then it'll be really effective. Cause right now, no mage knows any spells. They just cast from "Gut Magic" and the difficulty is how many times it's already been cast in that phase.
 

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I think the new rules will be interesting...

Some general thoughts

Cav are no longer amazing, a unit of 5 Chaos knights won't destroy any unit because, units with more ranks are stubborn.

Magic has been toned down a lot. Not being allowed to have multiples of the same spell in an army list changes things too.

Skirmishers seem like they will be harder to use and won't be able to hid as easily or get out of charge arcs, also no 360 sight. May march and shoot

Since combat goes by initiative even with charges, its going to hurt some units that have two handed weapons.

HW shield gets you a 6+ ward saves, seems like if you have a better ward save your HW+shield bonus is useless.

Specifically for lizardmen:

Slann will be expensive, but if you can get one in a game, they should do well with the ability to roll an average of 11 at the cost of one power dice.

Saurus no longer break due to fear so they should last longer in combat.

Krox and skink units might be useful as they can break ranks.
 

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I have given my saurus the spears and mounted the hand weapons/shields on their sides/backs in order to have access to both as I need them.

As far as 8th edition goes, I think I will be using spears. This is because the way I understand it, Saurus with spears will get 2x attacks on the first 2 ranks with 1x attack on the supporting rank (third rank). And that would furthermore mean that if I take a monstrous 40-50 saurus, that I could get the horde bonus (for rank of 10) on the 4th rank as well. That would total the attacks at 60 (1st and 2nd rank 40 + the two supporting 10 attacks).

I could be reading that rule incorrectly though. If so, that would still be 40 attacks in a rank 10 wide (20 for the front rank, the the 2nd and 3rd rank get supporting attacks).
 

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as for the whole fighting in ranks, no matter what rank it is except the first one, they only give you one extra attack, so a secound rank of sauras gives you an extra 5 attacks. in the case of ogres,, trolls and ushabti, we get ranks of three :) are supporting ranks get 3 attacks each :) and we get stomp attacks :) i played a game of 8th edition today, a block of 8 ushabti 24 str6 attacks, 4 str6 stomp attacks :D bye bye :)

oh and the new common magic items are sweet :) espescialy for the older books :) hhehe magic sword +3 attacks :) armour -1 to hit :) a talismen that give su a 6+ regen save :) i used all of these on my tomb king :) one hard cookie he was :)
 

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Barring the FAQ changing that rule book standard, you are right Settra. But until the FAQs hit, we won't know the exact numbers. For example, since the Hellpit abomination removes all ranks from those fighting it, does that mean no extra rank fighting? Could be! Megastomp and only your front rank! FTW! Possibly. We'll see how it all works out, I'm pleasantly impressed so far. But my OK are waking up and looking quite eager to be out and about. 50 Gnoblar horde with a 6+ ward in HTH and 30 attacks is looking nice. A Scraplauncher that you can premeasure! SCHWEEET!
 

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The new rules combined with the old army books can make for some seriously hard units at the moment.
I watched a game demo today and a large block of skellie spearmen under the influence of a vampire with the item that shares out his WS was game winning where before it was just annoying,
I don't see any real issues with the character cap although gobbo's, Skaven and Empire get a boost especially with the extra magic items.
Slings get a big boost as does gnoblar sharp stuff and I'm not looking forward to facing big units of darkelf xbows.
Overall I think most of the armies will need to play differently and the army building phase will be less pick the minimum core, cut and paste characters then max out on the shiny stuff which can only be a good thing.
 

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If they have chnaged skirmishers to be more useless in this game and boosted block armies then they have killed Wood Elves right there and then we win by having to gang up and use skirmish units to move around flanks to get charge etc if we are harder to hide it's going to be a pain in the but, though it will mean 80 glade guard won't be off the books
 

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Bretonnians will have a hard time of it, I think. I've been looking at the new rules, and while I think they're pretty good generally, they're not going to be too kind to Bretonnians. In 6th ed. Brets were the most over-powered army in the game. Now, two editions out of date, they might become one of the weakest armies. Though, I still feel confident against Ogre Kingdoms :p.

The Blessing:
The Ward Save granted to Bretonnian Knights has frustrated many of my opponents. If the new version only allows either a ward save OR an armour save (as rumored, anyone know for sure?), then it might be an idea not to pray at all against some enemies, but take the chance to go first instead. This change will hurt, as it's the only thing keeping me alive against some opponents.

Charging:
With random charge ranges, it becomes less certain if you will get a charge in, which is absolutely essential for Bretonnian Knights. To get a 90% certainty of charging a group of infantry, we have to be within 14". A unit of M4 infantry will be able to charge that far 10% of the time. This means that we'll usually have at least a 10% - 20% chance of charge failure at the best of times, and much higher chance of being charged before they get the chance. The Virtue of the Impetuous Knight just became far better, with the ability to charge an extra D6", which would make the average charge range 22".

Being able to march even if within 8" of an enemy will help us get into better flank positions though, so that's very handy.


Magic:

The magic phase might be an interesting change. I'll have to check it out, but all I can say is that it might make Bretonnian magic occasionally effective. I'll wait to see what the new magic lores look like. I don't know how it might affect Brets otherwise, though defensively it can't be that much worse than it is now. The option to take a dispel scroll, and another item which works like a dispel scroll, will give us a bit more anti-magic than some other armies can muster. I also need to find out how Magic Resistance works, because that will be key to how well Brets will survive 8th Ed. magic.

Shooting:
The Trebuchet might become slightly more effective, and might be worth taking more often. Archers will be lined up two deep, which will make them easier to fit into a battle line. Both of these changes are pretty minor though, as Bretonnian shooting is never that crash hot.

However, being shot at has become significantly worse. Going against a shooty army will now become a knightmare (see what I did there?), with even more shots coming in, and no blessing save. Handgunners, crossbows and the like will be even more horrible to take on. Generally, the prognosis is not good for taking on more shooty armies...

Combat:
Pros -
The lance formation keeps us as the most effective knights in the game. We'll still have a lot of decent strength hits on the charge.

Cons -
Bretonnians currently rely on the charge to do serious damage to an enemy. On the charge, knights are awesome, off the charge, they're very weak. We usually try to break enemies on the charge, and if we fail to do that, we'll have a very hard fight. Two things are going to interfere with this a lot. Firstly, chargers don't always strike first, which means against some enemies, we might be beaten to a pulp before we get to even use those attacks.

Secondly, Brets have quite a bit of trouble against Stubborn or Unbreakable enemies. With the new more ranks= stubborn rule, We'll probably be bouncing off solid walls of infantry a lot more. Our lance formation will help somewhat, but we'll still usually be out-ranked by fully ranked units. I'll expect to use a lot more large (12 knight) units, but still, when you lose a few, you'll be outranked, the enemy stubborn, and next turn it'll become a slog fest, with your flanks being very exposed.

We still have more manoeuvrability than other enemies though, so we might have an easier time getting into opponents flanks, but it's going to be tough going.

Units:
I'll be interested to see how Knights Errant work out in the new edition. Currently, they're the cheapest knight, and they have ItP on the charge, which has made them invaluable to most bret players. However, they're only WS/I 3, so a lot of enemies will decimate them through strength or number of attacks, before they get to strike back. They are also required to charge, if able, and they fail a LD test. How this works with random charge ranges, I have no idea, but I'm assuming it would work the same as with frenzy.

Questing knights become a better option, as apparently you now get +2str for great weapons while mounted (instead of the +1 str. currently). It will make them a very handy unit again, especially when you consider that combat will usually take longer against stubborn opponents, so I'll probably be picking up a few.

Our brave, yet crappy, infantry (Men-At-Arms) will probably become a more viable option in the new edition. Fully ranked units will be far better now, but they're still rather poor compared to infantry from other armies. They'll be much more valuable with the new edition altogether.

Overall:

Not great, the blessing, lack of charge certainty, enemies being able to strike first on the charge, more shooting and more stubborn opponents will make life very difficult for Bretonnians. Our knights have certainly become overpriced for what you get now. It's not all bad though, our weaker magic might become somewhat effective, Questing knights are going to be far more valuable, and Bretonnians will still be one of the most manoeuvrable armies in the game, which will help to overcome some of the downsides. I'll have to try a few games, and see how we go :)
 

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Its actually a 50% cap on characters lords 25% heros 25% a 25%minimum for core 50%max special and 25% max rare so you can play your Helfs happilly at 2k.
The only rule I really don't like is that special weapons like spears, halberds etc have to be used so no more turtling up with hwp and sheild when you get charged by something scary although this will stop the chaos warrior armies choosing the best weapon for the job, How this affects Ogres iron fists and Black orcs armed to da teef is as yet unclear.
My friend you made my day :)

That I can use both my characters, combined with 50% max special (I was dreading 25%) I should be actually able to make a very nice list. Now just to see whats in the starter.
 
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