Warhammer 40k Forum and Wargaming Forums banner

1 - 20 of 26 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,615 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Actually posted this as a query on the 'Rules' forum, but realised it came in at around 3500pts so I thought I'd bring it over here as well.

So here it is - a FOC legal 3500pt Marine assault force 27 (edit: no it's not, it's 25) termies including 2 characters, no tac squads and 8 Landraiders:

HQ
Commander in term armour, terminator command squad, Landraider
Chaplain in term armour, terminator command squad, Landraider

Elite
Terminator squad, Landraider
Terminator squad, Landraider
Terminator squad, Landraider

Troop
Scout squad (bp+ccw)
Scout squad (bp+ccw)

Fast Attack
Assault marines (no jump packs)

Heavy support
Landraider
Landraider
Landraider

I think that'd be the assault equivalent of the linebreaker...

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
176 Posts
Why the Assault Marines?

I'd drop them and take Assault Cannons in the Terminator Squads. I'd also add Missile Launchers to the Scouts.

Your Leadership is also more than adequate. The Commander is a waste. Go for a Librarian. He doesn't need to deploy with his Transport. Just give him Fear the Darkness and teleport him into the middle of the enemy lines.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
383 Posts
On page 78 of the rule book it basically says that as long as both agree then a game over 2,500 can feature multiple detachments so more that one Forge Organisation. This without taking Apocalypse into account.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,615 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Firstly, thanks for your comments. I feel I've confused some of you though, I thought this was all fairly straightforward, but I'm obviously not making my reasons for posting this very clear, so I'll explain why such weirdness:

1 - because theres a thread here about 6 chaos landraiders in a normal FOC (due to dedicated transport) that got me thinking about how many loyalist SM landraiders you could get, also using one FOC; which is here. While mentally totting up the PVs I realised it was in the vicinity (that's all, I haven't done the math, it's not a real list) of 3500pts, so I thought I'd bring it over here.

2 - I'm not bothered about the cheeseyness of the list, it's not exactly 'real', more an excercise in the highly improbable (though still, technically/legally possible).

3 - the Assault Marines are there to go in the 8th landraider. I don't really understand the question TBH. If I drop them I have an empty landraider. What's the point of that? They're assault marines for two reasons: a) because I want cc-guys and I can use tac marines with traits, or scouts, or vet squads, or assault marines with no jump packs. Tac marines with traits means having to worry about traits; I already have two cc-scout squads and frankly I only have them for a minimum troop requirement anyway; I don't have any elite slots for vet squads left; and assault marines mean free grenades - ok, I lose heavy weapons, but I'm not planning on any of my troops being more than 8" from anything they're shooting at anyway; also, b) due to a series of discussions I had with Galahad and others, here, and others had in a different context here, the question of assault marines and transports (in the second of those threads, specifically landraiders) came up - so here are some assault marines in a transport.

4 - I haven't bothered putting any weapon options - they're not important. In general, the tactic is, jump out of landraider, hit/shoot-at-point-blank-range the nearest enemy. It's not hard, it doesn't require a lot of consideration. Were this a real list, not the exposition of a concept, I'd have put weapons options. And PVs.

5 - the commander is only a 'waste' if you're counting points and trying to squeeze in 'the best' tactical choices. I'm not. I wanted a commander for this force, it's quarter of the First Company FFS. I don't think that so many terminators would go to war without a fairly senior ranking officer. I don't want someone who can deep strike or psychically fly in or whatever - I want 8 landraiders full of hitty people waiting to jump out, lead by their captain.

6 - as I understand the rules for multiple detachments, any game can be multiple detachments, as long as both players agree. IIRC, it's recommended for 2500+ games as it's difficult for all armies to get more than that with one FOC. That's, unfortunately, completely irrelevant. I could conceptually field a gazillion landraiders and no troops at all - but that's not the point of the excercise. The point was to find the maximum number of landraiders in one FOC slot. Saying 'why are you only using one FOC slot?' is a bit like saying 'why are you maximising landraiders not... plasma cannons?' Errm, because I want to?

7 - in the end, I posted it here because a) I realised it was more than 3000pts and was therefore 'Apocalypse legal', and someone might want to laugh at the idea here as much as in "Rules"; and b) it's not viable for a normal game, but as, for instance, the 'point of the wedge' of a massive space marine force (say 10-15,000pt) it may just about be. Backed up by another 6-12,000pts of troops (that I might continue to think of as '2-6 FOCs', because I'm mentally organising my marines into FOCs for Apocalypse), it might just work, and 8 landraiders would look cool on a table, I challenge anyone to disagree!

Anyway; that's taken a very long time to explain, but basically, don't worry about suggesting minor swaps or point-saving plans; it's not a 'real' list. Thanks anyway!

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,615 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
The three heavy support could be, but the others must be 'normal' as crusaders aren't included in the dedicated transport rules for those squads IIRC.

There's no point in them being crusaders rather than regular landraiders, the squads are all max 10 man anyway.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
176 Posts
The three heavy support could be, but the others must be 'normal' as crusaders aren't included in the dedicated transport rules for those squads IIRC.

There's no point in them being crusaders rather than regular landraiders, the squads are all max 10 man anyway.

Well, in Apocalypse it lets you add more characters to the squad. Having Azrael, Ezekial, Mephiston, Lemartes, Dante, Marenus Calgar, Tigurius and Lysander all charge out of the same Land Raider Crusader is probably going to be able out-assault whatever the enemy has waiting.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,615 Posts
Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
It's a good point well made.

On thinking about a thread (here) on how marines a portrayed in the fluff (picking up tanks with one hand, taking nuclear strikes to the chest, blowing small planets out of their orbit by farting, etc), and how they are portrayed in the rules (pretty tough but by no means invincible), I started to think about an 'assault squad' composed of, let's say, 5 vets with bp&ccw, a chaplain, and 9 master-commanders all with cc wargear (fists, paired lightning claws and power weapons would obviously predominate) all jumping out of a crusader. That would maybe be closer to the 'fluff' marines' ability to survive better and hit harder than almost anything else alive.

With 10 HQ choices, however, it wouldn't fit with my self-imposed 'one FOC' though. Perhaps for a different theoretical apocalypse...

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
365 Posts
If you want to max out on raiders in a FOC type battle, I'd have to say you picked the wrong list. Black Templars can take (all with crusader transports) 6 troops, 3 elite, and 2 HQ. This leaves you with 3 heavy support that can be either varient. Thats at least 3,600pts on land raider varients alone. Try having someone match that. And I think that 14 land raiders would look alot more impressive then 8.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
And leaves you with only multi meltas for anti tank support.

That does sound a nasty apoc army though, definatly an infantry shreddar.

I currently have 6 I run with, taking up 5 chart spots, one being a prometheus and not taking up any chart spot.

That is spread over a battle company and a third of the deathwing though.

I dont have my black templars codex with me, but can they take them as a transport option only, no force charts taken up?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
505 Posts
If you want to max out on raiders in a FOC type battle, I'd have to say you picked the wrong list. Black Templars can take (all with crusader transports) 6 troops, 3 elite, and 2 HQ. This leaves you with 3 heavy support that can be either varient. Thats at least 3,600pts on land raider varients alone. Try having someone match that. And I think that 14 land raiders would look alot more impressive then 8.
14 land raiders!!! That would even scare a railgun/brightlance/lascannon heavy army!!!! That's insane!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,615 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Well, I don't play BTs and know little about them, but boy that is a lot of Landraidery goodness. Perhaps BTs have just become my ultimate Apocalypse Army that I don't collect!

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,476 Posts
good list how would it work against eldar with there bright lances
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
One of two ways.

He shoots all your land raiders before they get in range, and you get cut to ribbons trying to walk large squads into combat.

He misses everything, any vehicle gets a multi melta blasting, any units gets boltgun/assault cannon death, then charged by mad men with chainswords.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
365 Posts
Bright lances (or even star lances) wouldn't bother a crusader very much with the blessed hull upgrade (ignores the lance special rule), so I'm pretty sure that they'll still be moving around the battlefield causing untold havoc. Until someone pulls out a railgun...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
29 Posts
14 land raiders!!! That would even scare a railgun/brightlance/lascannon heavy army!!!! That's insane!
Yeah and if you throw in Blessed Hull(lances no longer treat armour as 12) on LR Crusaders you can make Eldar cry :D
 

·
For Da Boss
Joined
·
2,156 Posts
hahahahahaha railguns, the only thing u are scared of caledor, and another problim is if your opossition had a full flyer army, or a couple of reaver titans, or 5 tigershark ax-10's, thats 5 STR:D AP:1,destroyer, 5inch blast template. and if they were all equipded with disruption pods, the tanks would first off need to roll to see them, and get a six to hit them.

That will surely make Caledor cry
 
1 - 20 of 26 Posts
Top