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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Chaos Mutilators are one of the most underused units in our Codex. Since they also come with the MOST UGLY model, it is not a mistery that they have rarely seen the light of the day, out of their sprue and box.
Honestly, have you ever seen a guy who willingly runs some of the fuckers?
Mutilators are slow, have a low Ld and still being Daemons, they are Deamons of that sub-evolved category that CSM Codex has, so no Fearless and no immunity to ID. Also, they lack assault grenades and have a maximum model count of 3 (three). But...
...they have some good ability: they have 2 wounds, a 2+ armour save, they cause Fear, have access to an astounding amount of twin melee power weapons and...they can Deepstrike.
Also, they cost less than 2 terminators. In fact, a mutilator with Mark of Khorne will still cost LESS than said 2 terminators!
So, analyzing the good news and the bad news, the unit we take out of those data is what follows:
a slow unit, with small numbers and suceptible to high strenght attacks, unfit to run down enemies and to fight prolonged melee, unable to shoot but capable of shattering almost everything in a fight.

The biggest problem here, is the apparent lack of a reliable way to get to the enemy. If we consider the deepstrike option, however, things get brighter: making them appear where the enemy is weaker is paramount to be successfull with this unit. Shure, they will be charging in Turn 3 at best and will take a turn of shooting, so it might seem an unreliable way to get there. However, if you pair them with fast and dangerous onrushing units such as spawns, bikes, maulerfiends...they actually are a nice second wave to distract the enemy or deliver the telling blow. Otherwise, consider a Landraider, wich is bad due to the extra cost. Honestly you might as well take a second unit to deepstrike instead of a raider...
An overlooked opportunity is to Infiltrate them with Huron, maybe along with him, but that will depend on the board and on the opponent.

Another problem is the low model count and low Leadership. Every model falling will cause a Ld test and that sucks. This, however, is moot if you stick with them a nice nasty lord in Terminator suit. And don't say that's "babysitting", because they excel at absorbing wounds away from the fucker and they can maim any unit the lord is not kitted to face, while in return the lord gives them Fearless and can save them from nastynasty enemy characters by challenging them; it's called symbiosis. Also, since the lord can take some vicious equipment, you will add versatility to the unit. A lord with the burning brand, DSing with 3 Mutilators in your back, is not to be trifled with. Also, a Psiker with telepathy can greatly improve their survivability with Shroud, invisibility and can put Psy Shriek to good use when deepstriking, altough he will not give them Fearless.

Then, Instant Death. That is an issue you have just one way to deal: Mark of Nurgle. Being T5, you will be safe against all but the demolisher-like attacks and big nastyes smashing at you. The mark will also help you a great deal against massed small arms fire, that like terminators, are the true deathknell for the unit.

On a practical term the usage of he unit seems to be restricted to a daring Deepstrike, possibly out of LoS, to walk in to melee by turn 3, after all your fast threats have hit the enemy line.
They can do this alone, and then i suggest 3 Mutilators with MoKhorne and VotLW (192), or they can do this as a Lord retinue.
And then i'd go with MoNurgle, the Nurgle Lord sporting a combimelta, a poweraxe and blight grenades (198 + 132 = 330)
If you want them to escort a Sorceror, then i'd keep the MoN upgrade for them, while the Terminator sorc stays unmarked ang go full telepathy or biomancy, with the aid of a familiar and a Force Stave.
(198 + 150 = 348)

The extra option has Huron joining them and/or granting infiltrate to the guys. With this option, you might find yourself a bit too far from the enemy, but it could definetly work, especially if huron has joined the unit. Infiltrating them could be the only way to get a Turn 2 charge.

Honestly, i would suggest to always take three, since relatively low number of attacks and scarce mobility makes them unreliable. But, if you want to surprise an opponent, taking three Mutilators to deepstrike them separately, can be wonderful (if the scatter dice is not mean) to better absorb enemy fire after DSing and then subsequently charging togheter, thus limiting Overwatch too.

The last thing to consider is: what I want them to hunt down? Their perfect prey, imo, are Walkers, vehicle squadrons and light infantry, even a big bunch of them. They could also take on MCs but would shurely need an IC to help them out or should be shure to attack at least simultaneously. if you wan them to go after MC or LoW walkers, i strongly suggest using MoKhorne for maximum damage output and to skip MoTzeentch already: a 4+ is not going to save you more than so much and you will pay more and make less attacks for a meagre chance of survival.

Consider this list as an example:

Lord Huron

20 Slaanesh Marines
Icon of excess
2 meltaguns
meltabombs & Power Sword champion

15 Cultists
Heavy S1ubber
1 Autogun

5 Nurgle Spawns

5 Nurgle Spawns

5 Nurgle Bikers
2 meltaguns
1 combimelta & meltabombs champion

3 Khorne Mutilators
Veterans of the Long War

2 Nurgle Obliterators

-1500 pts-

A fast nurglish core to pose an immediate threat, supprted by an advancing duo of Obliterators (they can also DS for localized support, if needed), while Huron grants infiltrate to the Slaaneshi horde, then himself, then the Mutilators/cultists. Mutilators can choose to DS if infiltration seems to be a bad idea. However, if Huron rolls a three...
So, what do you guys think?
 

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I quite like the idea of just deepstriking three individuals for disruption. What a nuisance if they have heavy support vehicles sitting back and are forced to either kill all of the mutilators or move away and reduce their fire. 183 point for three with MoN, a handful more for MoT.

(I have to interrupt my own post here. The cat just walked over to its litter tray and had a shit. A nuisance for me to clean up? No. The dog walked over a moment later, had a sniff, then ate it. No wonder the cat looks at him with contempt.)

Anyway, before I continue I'll mention now I'd much rather pay more for two termicide units or three obliterators deepstriking in than three mutilators. A chainfist or three meltas for the termies. But if we're discussing how to make the most of mutilators regardless of better alternatives...

I don't mind the idea of putting them in a land raider with a killy HQ. They would take up three spaces each, right? A lot of troublesome units would get battered by that unit. It's a bit annoying you can't use the same weapon in two consecutive rounds of combat, meaning a knight would have to be weakened before the mutilators charge in, or the attached character would have to do some damage too (Kharn?).

Three khorne mutilators and Kharn in a land raider is brutal! Annoying he's going to hit your own guys but I guess Khorne doesn't care where the blood comes from.

Overall I like the deepstriking idea the most. No more points have to be invested in them, it would be fun to do and could force game changing mistakes from the opponent
 

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I like the idea of using them as a body-guard unit.

But: If you are using mulipul CADS 3 individuals DSing into the opponents back line could be fun if you can spare the slots.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
Thanks for the input guys :) @Squire, honestly i'll dig into the Land Raider option if it weren't for the 230 pts to invest in a vehicle with no real damage output. 3 Mutilators, a kitted lord and a landraider comes at more than 500 pts..eewww!
Maybe a Karybdis + kharn + 3 mutilators?
However, since they have DS, i am too inclined to let them use it to get in melee, with no extra investment.
About termicide unit: 119 for three wounds and 3 combiplasma/melta shots and a chainfist and when those combis are spent, you are just a pityful nuisance that's just one wound away from a Ld test. Honestly, we are comparing a bad choice with another bad choice, imo... I've used termicide a lot in the past and they usually disappoint me: maybe they crak a vehicle open or kill some 2+ models, but lack any real punch either at range or melee. 3 shots (6 with plasma, but double chance of gets hot!) are too unpredictable while in melee 3 models just can't deal enough damage to wathever, specially due to their weaponry. If you overkit them, they cost too much; if you pick them at a standard equip, they are unprepared to face most opponents. I feel that terminators are wanting in the same areas of mutilators and altough they can sport some nasty shooty weapons, they lack that much needed extra wound and flexibility. Shure, they are 50 ish points cheaper...but is it worth it? Termicides are a one trick pony. They DS, they shoot and that's it. Mutilators, on the other hand are ALWAYS a danger in melee. You have to deal with them or feed them with an unbreakable opponent. Just some extra thoughts here :)
@Uveron yeah, multiple CADs seems the way to go if playing with the elite slots of the CSM codex. Never forget we can ally with Crimsn Slaughter, so our 3 singles might come from our primary CSM CAD, while an allied CS CAD could bring us the 3 mutilator unit.

As another example, Mutilator Madness:

CSM CAD

Khorne Lord
Terminator
Axe of Blind Fury

3 Single Mutilators
MoNurgle
(338)

5 Nurgle Spawns

5 Nurgle Spawns
(360)

10 Cultists

5 Khorne Marines
ccw+pistol
meltagun
Rhino
(180)

3 Single Nurgle Obliterators
(228)

CRIMSON SLAUGHTER ALLIED DETACHMENT

Biker Nurgle Lord,
Sigils of corruption
Butcher's Horns
Powerfist / Claw
(180)

3 Mutilators
MoKhorne
(180)

5 Khorne Marines
ccw+pistol
meltagun
Rhino

1 Obliterator

(200)

-1501 pts-

3 single nurgle mutilators to deepstrike alongside three khorne mutilatos and Axe Lord. The lone obliterator can DS with them too, providing some form of fire support. The nurgle oblits gives fire support advancing, rhinos with marines are fast ObSec units that can help the spawns units to take objectives. Biker lord stays with the spawns to add an extra melee beast in the mix.

Any ideas?
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Well, that would mean dropping all the Obliterators. IDK if adding just three AV12 walkers could be effective. What would you drop instead?
 

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I quite like the idea of just deepstriking three individuals for disruption. What a nuisance if they have heavy support vehicles sitting back and are forced to either kill all of the mutilators or move away and reduce their fire. 183 point for three with MoN, a handful more for MoT.
That might be fun. A half-price Mayhem Pack, essentially. Like Uveron says, could be fun alongside an actual Mayhem Pack. Too bad they can't be in a Daemonkin list, if they're spammable like that... ah well, we'll have to stick with solo-Spawn instead. Those are more mobile, at least...
 

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Warsmith
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Ok.

With some thought I have a list that uses as many Mutilators as Oblits

+++ Deep Strike King of Castle +++

Codex: Chaos Space Marines: Combined Arms Detachment

HQ
Warpsmith (110pts)
(To Fix the Castle, and Man the Main Gun)

Elites
Mutilator x2
Mutilator x2
Mutilator x2

Troops

Chaos Cultists (55pts) ( Cultists + Heavy stubber) – (Squad mans the heavy Bolters in the Castle)

Chaos Cultists (50pts)

Fast Attack
Chaos Spawn (30pts)
Chaos Spawn (30pts)

Heavy Support
Obliterators x2 (MoN)
Obliterators x2 (MoN)
Obliterators x2 (MoN)

Fortification (The Castle)
Aquila Strongpoint 640pts
Main Building- [Ammo Store, Macro Cannon, Void Shield,
Secondary Building [4x Heavy Bolter, Void Shield]

Formation: Mayhem Pack (300pts)
Helbrute [Multi-melta, Power fist] x 3
 

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The Plan of the above list.

Deep strike as much as you want behind the opponent. And the Castle will be the Strongpoint to make sure you are not tabled on turn 1! (and the Macro-cannon can shift Lords of War).

(You can man the Castle with the Oblits as well for added firepower!
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
looks good! how many points?
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
eh, an aquila strongpoint at 1500 is mean...
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
until then, if you play a list with 6 mutilators, shame on those that call cheese on you!!:laugh:
 

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I played one experimental "Obliterator Cult" list way back in the day with mostly proxied minis. It ran up against a Slaaneshi Daemons list the one time I fielded it and was rended to death immediately, but, to throw it back together in a hurry...

1750 "End of Entropy"

230 - Typhus

50 - 10 Plague Zombies
50 - 10 Plague Zombies
50 - 10 Plague Zombies

183 - 3 Mutilators w/ MoN
183 - 3 Mutilators w/ MoN
183 - 3 Mutilators w/ MoN

72 - 2 Spawn w/ MoN
72 - 2 Spawn w/ MoN

228 - 3 Oblits w/ MoN
228 - 3 Oblits w/ MoN
228 - 3 Oblits w/ MoN

I suspect the original list had more plague zombies and no Spawn, but I want some mobility after DSes are resolved.

Idea behind the list: 19 multi-wound T5 models with 2+ saves. Add some fearless FNP zombies to shamble onto objectives, garnish with some T6 W3 Spawn...
 

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Warpsmith (110pts)
(To Fix the Castle, and Man the Main Gun)
Only question--since buildings have the Building Damage Chart instead of Hull Points, and Emplaced Weapons instead of taking "weapon destroyed" results on the vehicle damage table... can a Warpsmith even repair anything about it?
 

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Only question--since buildings have the Building Damage Chart instead of Hull Points, and Emplaced Weapons instead of taking "weapon destroyed" results on the vehicle damage table... can a Warpsmith even repair anything about it?
That is a good Question! I bet it cannot... Bah humbug. Never the less... he will be fun in the building and a cheep way to get BS5 on the Macrocannon. (and he can even fire one of his other weapons at the same target! Becuse you allways need to flame something when you have fired a D St gun at it!)
 

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I don't know if threadomancy is looked down on here, but I have some comments about Mutilators.

I am a glutton for punishment so I use warp talons, possessed, mutilators and all the other sucky things in our codex. But Mutilators can actually be pretty useful, though. They aren't godlike, but they don't have to suck.

Chaos doesn't use its elite slots much since you will have cult marines as troops and nobody takes any of the other stuff. Take 3 individuals with MoN. I have deep struck (deep striked? which one is it?) 3 individual mutilators and it has been amazing. If they mishap, its only 61 points. If they don't than they are a huge thorn. Your opponent is going to have to shoot them/assault them and any excess wounds that go through are lost since you don't have any more models in the unit. So your opponent can spam them with small arms fire and pray that you roll 1s, or they can send AP2 shots at you and the excess wounds are wasted overkill. The best part is if the mutilators survive they will almost assuredly kill enemy tanks. I wouldn't charge too many walkers because at I1 you are gonna get squished before you get a chance to hit, but vindis, preds, LRs, rhinos, wave serpents, etc. are all prime targets because 3 attacks with a chainfist is going to do some serious damage to any vehicle. 3s to hit a vehicle and armorbane. That is 2 hits with a 2d6 for the pen roll and+1 on the damage table. You are going to tear vehicles up.

You can also use them to support another charge. Turn 2 deepstrike = turn 3 charge, which is perfect timing for the rest of your army. If you have some spawn, bikers, or marines that are going to assault, the Mutilator is a great asset to help win the combat.

But if they fail and it all comes crashing down, you have only spent 183 points to jack up your opponents shooting/movement/assaults etc for an entire turn. They don't work well as bodyguards; they don't work well as large blobs; they don't work well w/out deepstrike. But they can be awesome if you solo deepstrike 3.

My 2 cents.
 

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I don't know if threadomancy is looked down on here, but I have some comments about Mutilators.
Only if the ressurection post adds nothing to the discussion.
 
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