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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
It's been a year since the Hellbrute Formations have been added to our arsenal, and I had some opportunities to try them out. Let's talk about the HELLCULT FORMATION.
First of all, we are talking about a mandatory 2 units of cultists and an Eldar Autarch...ok you got me, an Helbrute :grin:
Those little cultists, if even minimally covering the Brute, will grant him a 3+ cover save, while they literally take the shots on his behalf (each successfull save, removes a cultist..oh no, John!), in exchange for this kindness, the Living Helbrute will grant the puny humans around him Fearless; even better if he dies, the cultists go nut crazy and got Zealot!! Also, this helbrute will have Rage, having his attacks boosted during the charge. Much needed indeed!
Still, it has to be pointed out, in a melee the helbrute will quash one of his allies within 6" (even if not engaged in the same melee!) on any To Hit of 1, a la Kharne. I guess it's a chaos thing to kill your own. (at that point i would love to shoot in melee, but no, hey, you might hit your friends...)
Again, took note that this two units of cultists DO NOT have Objective secured. And that's is big let down, while it also modifies their possible use.

This said, let's see some ways to use this formation.

In my modest opinion and experience two units of 10 cultists to babysit an helbrute in you deployment zone, are just wasted money. Since they lack ObSec, any smartass deepstriker or outflanker can grab the guarded objective and, let's be clear, 20 cultists are going to die just to anything.

We might want to take 20 & 20 cultists, some flamers maybe and bubblewrap more reliably our metal friend, but then, you are looking at a 300+ pts backfield babysit WITHOUT ObSec. See where i'm going? No Ob Sec, no backfield power.

Then we have the best thing we could do: go insane and try to brain the enemy barehanded.

Let's think about 35 & 35 ccw+pistol cultists, fearless, running at you, followed by an Hellbrute (later on the Brute equipment) AND, let's say we are willing to let that Helbrute die at some point (namely just before Turn 3, when you will be probably able to charge) to get this awesome Zealot rule... we are looking at 70 creepy madmen running midfield, engulfing the board with attacks! And this for just 400 pts.

About the Helbrute equipment, since he is going to die (wheter or not we want it, AV12 midfield is just not going to see the next dawn), we might want him cheap. A cheap wepon to harass light transports and EVEN FLYIERS (thanks to Twin Linked) is the Reaper Autocannon. I'd just stick with that. Other weapons are really too costly to give it to a semi-suicidal unit, while the stock Multimelta is just too short ranged, meaning he will lose one turn of shooting.

So, our perfect Hellcult looks like 70 fearless melee cultists, surrounding the Reaper Brute and walking (and running) to reach midfield and swamp the opponent. On turn 2 you might even want to open the formation to let clear line of fires towards the poor Helbrute, since in turn 3 you are going to charge.
The helbrute dies,you profit; he stays alive, you profit, since he will be too hitting the breach (hopefully). Final cost 405 pts. I can see this a nice assault unit for a 1500 pts army.

If you really want them to help in objective taking, let them be followed by 5 Marines with meltagun and meltabombs (90 pts). The marines should be good, behind all those bodies and the Helbrute hull.

Anyway, i'm wandering off trail.

In conclusion, the formation is good, can be useful to amass an horde list an will make for funny games. However, due to the amount of Ignore Cover weapons, slowness of infantry, risk of hitting own people in melee and most of all lack of ObSec, we have yet to see this formation in more competitive games.

What do you guys think?? Oh, and GLORY TO CHAOS!!!
 

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You forgot something...

Taking Typhus or Necrosius in your army CAN make your Cultists from the Helcult in to Zombies if you wish. This is because both allow any cultists in your ARMY to be Zombies :). This gains them FNP and Slow and Purposeful, they also lose there guns (so something good with 2 lots of something bad). If Necro is the guy giving you the zombies though they do gain Furious Charge. They will also remain fearless regardless of if the Helbrute is alive or dead, though as Zealot is just fearless + hatred it doesn't matter.
Argument also goes with the FNP save can be taken against the shots that remove your cultists if they throw themselves in the way of shots against your helbrute (though this is a rather dodgy one) because the human shield rule says no saves allowed and the FNP rules say "this is not a saving throw and so can be used against attacks that state that ‘no saves of any kind are allowed’, for example those inflicted by Perils of the Warp."
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
God, you might be right. However, Necrosius is Forge World, and i really try to avoid FW & Normal codex rules to interact. Otherwise nice catch.
The FnP issue..i need to check. :) EDIT: checked. you should remove the cultist as a casualty with no saves allowed..so...i guess you can use FnP. ALtough there are no wounds to be saved. The model is simply removed, without having suffered any wound the FnP can "discount"...

REEDIT: Checked this conundrum. Since there are no wounds allocated, FnP can't save them. FnP can only save WOUNDS (even with no saves allowed).

Just note that zombies also have slow and purposeful, so can't run and could lose a turn before being able to charge. Moreover, Typhus alone costs more than half the maxed out formation...
Dunno...since they are already fearless, only Necrosius would be good to add something without costing a lung. And that something just is furious charge...
 
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