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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm not sure who has readn the new 7th edition rules set yet, but now is the time to put your Chaos Space Marine models onto Ebay.

They have changed the rules to challenges. Now, if you lose a challenge, any extra wounds that are still there after the losing character has died, is now put onto the squad that character was part of.

So not only is our Chaos Cultist Champion forced into a ludicrous and suicidal challenge, he then takes a load of the cultist squad with him.

As if they couldn't break the CSM any more....
 

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You mean,

"Now when you send Abaddon into a charge, when the opponent tries to stonewall your charge by accepting your mandatory challenge with a naked unit leader you can utterly crush them with overflow wounds before the rest of your unit even gets a chance to swing,"

right?
 

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I was thinking CSM got buffed since the super killy HQs can now murder the unit even after they nuke the random SGT with one hit.

Please dump your stuff on Ebay though, I like cheap deals.
 

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So, yes, the challenge doesn't protect cultists. What do you care if cultists die? It was a big buff for the rest of them. I'll be happy to take your models off your hands, especiallya s Cultists aren't a big part of my Chaos army.
 

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He is flipping the fuck out about a cultist champion bleeding excess wounds onto the unit. The retarded part of this whole rant of his, is the fact that if the cultist champ was in a challange with a super killy HQ type then the next turn that Super Killy HQ would eat the cultist unit anyways. So at the most 7th has streamlined the whole process by a turn.
 

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I'm not sure who has readn the new 7th edition rules set yet, but now is the time to put your Chaos Space Marine models onto Ebay.
Yeah they do suck, bad, really bad. Since they suck so bad I'll buy them from you for my nephew, but because they suck, at a discount. HEAVY.... discount...
 

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this is what makes me laugh....the rules have only been out 2 days...and yet people have thoroughly tested the rules inside and out they have become FULLY qualified to make this kind of comment....
As i tell every body at my store...the game has changed...deal with it.
 

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Who the fuck challenges with CSM anyway? Heldrakes and Obliterators can't be in challenges, so what's the problem?
 

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Methinks X-Bumble hasn't considered, say, Warp Talons with reliable 3++ invulns who don't scatter when they deep strike in, forcing multiple Blind checks, thanks to Cursed Earth combined with Mark of Tzeentch. Or, for that matter, 3++ Oblits and Possessed.

Or Daemonology combined with spell familiars, whether on a Daemon Prince or a Crimson Slaughter sorc with Prophet of the Voices (so he counts as a daemon).

Or the fact that with the new vehicle damage table, Heldrakes have become even more unkillable: more damage results they can ignore and it's harder to blow out of the sky, since so few weapons with AP2 or 1 can shoot at it without snapping fire.

Chaos champions have to challenge, yeah, but more often than not they are better equipped to slaughter enemies than the person they are challenging against. That one little rule change that benefits most CSM units more than the one unit that loses out slightly is no reason to throw a hissy fit. Your Mace Prince, or Iron Arm Prince, or your Kharn or Abaddon, or your Juggerlord with the AoBF, or Biker Lord of Nurgle with Fisticlaws and/or the BBOS... all of these will be hewing a bloody path through the enemy after killing the measly sergeant who stood in their way... but immune to retaliation from enemies for the rest of the phase.

Like Squire says, this may be a problem in the other direction: you can't reliably keep your Lord out of the main fray where he'll get enough kills to force the enemy unit to flee, letting enemy shooting tear him several new holes, rather than throwing him in against a sergeant so the enemy will probably stay in combat for the turn and you can mop them up during the enemy player's assault phase.

If you want to scream and shout and stamp about any particular rules change, let it be the fact that your Daemon Prince has to spend a turn just switching from swooping to glide mode to let himself be shot at by the entire enemy army before he can assault the enemy, mercilessly nerfing the last type of combat unit that could reliably get into combat without being easily, freely shot to ribbons by a shooty army.
 

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If you want to scream and shout and stamp about any particular rules change, let it be the fact that your Daemon Prince has to spend a turn just switching from swooping to glide mode to let himself be shot at by the entire enemy army before he can assault the enemy, mercilessly nerfing the last type of combat unit that could reliably get into combat without being easily, freely shot to ribbons by a shooty army.
Just a thought with this one. It says that you cant charge if you change flight in your turn. So if you end up taking that wound and getting grounded in the enemy turn, can you still charge on your turn then? Haven't got the new book to check with this one. What would actually make shooting a high flying daemonprince / bloodthirster or whatever pointless.
 

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Just a thought with this one. It says that you cant charge if you change flight in your turn. So if you end up taking that wound and getting grounded in the enemy turn, can you still charge on your turn then? Haven't got the new book to check with this one. What would actually make shooting a high flying daemonprince / bloodthirster or whatever pointless.
Yep. "Turn" means player turn, not game turn, where not specified. So yeah, if you get grounded during the enemy turn, you can assault during yours since you didn't change flight modes during your turn. They've actually actively disincentivized shooting at Swooping FMCs. And if you have a melee FMC flying circus, you know things are borked when you're hoping to take an unsaved wound, then fail a 3+ in order to take another high strength hit.

Now a FMC that deep strikes in (say, summoned by Daemonology*) MUST enter in Swoop Mode, so can't charge that turn, can't charge the next turn, and only start contributing to the fight the 3rd turn after it comes in.

*Conjuration says you enter by Deep Strike; FMCs must enter from Deep Strike Reserve in Swoop Mode, so this interpretation is based on the unfounded notion that Conjured units behave as if coming in from Deep Strike Reserve... which would make Cursed Earth make a lot more sense, since it eliminates scatter on Daemons coming in from Deep Strike Reserve--why include the power in the Daemonology discipline, otherwise?
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Well first of all, there is no need for the rudeness and bad language towards my post. I won't be cmoing back here again with repies like that.

I wasn't specifically referring to cultists alone.

Whislt it maybe true that an HQ will maul the enemy with the AoBF for example, if roll badly then the rest of your squad gets punished.

You would be fighting with far more troops and elites than with HQ's.

I have played a few games with the new rule and I can tell you that it can be brutal.

Shame people on here have to revert to insults and rudeness - not excactly the nest way to encourage new users.
 

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Yep. "Turn" means player turn, not game turn, where not specified. So yeah, if you get grounded during the enemy turn, you can assault during yours since you didn't change flight modes during your turn. They've actually actively disincentivized shooting at Swooping FMCs. And if you have a melee FMC flying circus, you know things are borked when you're hoping to take an unsaved wound, then fail a 3+ in order to take another high strength hit.

Now a FMC that deep strikes in (say, summoned by Daemonology*) MUST enter in Swoop Mode, so can't charge that turn, can't charge the next turn, and only start contributing to the fight the 3rd turn after it comes in.

*Conjuration says you enter by Deep Strike; FMCs must enter from Deep Strike Reserve in Swoop Mode, so this interpretation is based on the unfounded notion that Conjured units behave as if coming in from Deep Strike Reserve... which would make Cursed Earth make a lot more sense, since it eliminates scatter on Daemons coming in from Deep Strike Reserve--why include the power in the Daemonology discipline, otherwise?
I would say that as you are summoned by possessing an already grounded unit. You are not flying in, you are erupting out of their skin. If that model is in the process of flying high in the air then yeah you are still there, but if you are on the ground then you are on the ground from the moment you appear.
 
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