[overlordsson]

Hello!
Here's the story behind this thread. I started Warhammer 40k during 5th and 6th Edition. When the 7th edition came out I found myself with lack of money and time for Warhammer so I had to "Retire".
Now that I'm back in business, I could use Alot of help and/or advice.
For my army back then, I used all Khorne Berzerkers, Kharn, Abaddon, lightning claw terminators, Land Raiders and Assault Dreadnoughts. But now that I think about it, that list won't really work for 7th edition and it's just running in blind killing whatever I could get my hands on.
But I've remade a "list" that's more balanced and strategic.
I also have to warn you that this list is incomplete. The goal here is to give me ideas, correct my mistakes, and wisdom to widen my perspective. I would truly appreciate it!

HQ

Abaddon the Despoiler

Daemon Prince
-Daemon of Nurgle
-Wings
-Power Armour

NOTE
-Nurgle for the +1 Toughness
-Wings for speed
-Power armour for the +3 sv.
-Suggestions for Chaos Rewards/Artefacts???

ELITE

Chaos Terminators x8
-Lightning Claws x8
-Icon of Despair
Terminator Champion
-Gift of Mutation
-Lightning Claws
w/
Land Raider
-Daemonic Possession
-Warpflame Gargoyles

NOTE
-Tzeentch or Nurgle???

TROOP

Chaos Culists x25
-Autogun x25
-Heavy Stubber x2
Cultists Champion
-Shotgun

NOTE
-Tzeentch Or Nurgle???

Chaos Culists x25
-Autogun x25
-Heavy Stubber x2
Culists Champion x2
-Shotgun

NOTE
-Tzeentch or Nurgle???


Now, that is all I currently have. I am stuck, lost in thought and don't know what else to add, that's why I would love your opinions.
The Strategy for the list up above is the culists hold the objectives, Adaddon and the Terminators will ride the Land Raider straight into the enemy with the Prince either going around the battlefield to "sneak attack" or will follow the Land Raider.
So I would need something to support the Land Raider and the Prince, So I was thinking the ForgeFiend with Ectoplasma Cannons, Obliterators, and /or Defiler. Now Would it be better If i switched the Culists with Thousand sons instead? But I suppose Plague Marines would be better suited cause of their 5T.
Then the last thing I have to add is the HelBrute with what gear? and It's main objective? What about the MaulerFiend? or are the HelBrute and MaulerFiend on the same level?

That's all I Have to add, I know I'm asking alot from everyone who is reading this.
Don't judge on the fact that I gave little details and added the individual point costs, but I did that for me and makes it easier to correct my own mistakes. I would love to hear your opinions on what you would take, with what strategy. Your opinions on the units I listed and my suggestions at the end of the list.
Thank you for reading this and not going overboard with hateful feedback.
:so_happy:http://uk.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/

 

[Mossy Toes]

I don't want to judge you for using itemized points costs, but I do have to point out that it's against the forum rules for some legal defense reason (presumably so people don't repost all the info in the book and never have to buy the codex, but I don't know).



Daemon Prince:

Daemon of Nurgle is markedly different than Mark of Nurgle, and doesn't grant the +1T. Instead you get Shrouded, Slow & Purposeful, and, uh... I think defensive grenades, too. Though that might be just the Daemons book; I have to check. But a "Daemon of" is different from a "Mark of," remember that. HOWEVER a 2+ jink save thanks to Shrouded is excellent.

The Black Mace, normally AP4 but AP2 because of Smash, is an excellent Prince-gear thing. Psychic mastery levels are expensive, and one power has to be rolled on the god-chart, so even with the option of a spell familiar... probably not. Wings+armor is an auto-include, of course.


Termis:

Tzeentch on the Termis. Cheaper and saves much better against most stuff that'll get through Termi armor, since if it's AP2, it's probably high enough strength to laugh off the difference there. I'm also wary of Daemonic Possession since it has that chance of eating one of the Termis; I don't think warpflame gargoyles are worth a 50% chance at D3+1 bolter hits; I personally don't bother with boon of mutation, since it's so random; and icon of despair is terrible. Fear is a pretty useless ability.

Remember that Termis are Bulky, so take up 2 spaces in a Land Raider, so you can only fit 5 into the Raider (4 if Abaddon is with them).


Cultists:

No mark on the cultists. Keep them cheap like they're supposed to be, I say. I would honestly run them without autoguns, since that makes them more expensive than guardsmen without the ability to take orders, heavy weapons teams, or almost all of guard special weapons... but then I usually use my cultists as an expendable bubble-wrap around a melee killnasty like Abaddon who is trying to get into combat.

So I would need something to support the Land Raider and the Prince, So I was thinking the ForgeFiend with Ectoplasma Cannons, Obliterators, and /or Defiler. Now Would it be better If i switched the Culists with Thousand sons instead? But I suppose Plague Marines would be better suited cause of their 5T.

Plague Marines are great objective holders, and their plague knives cut through most tough folks in combat quite well, too. I don't like Defilers (because you can get an AV13 version for fewer points from Codx: Daemons), but Ectoplasma FF or Oblits (on oblits I get Mark of Nurgle, myself, since it makes them take less wounds and also saves them from a bunch of Instant Death, since they're two-wound models unlike the Termis) are also good. They're more shooty than "close range support," but... solid additions to any list, still.

Welcome back into the hobby for 7e--your list could definitely use some tweaks, as far as I'm concerned, but I hope that I haven't come off as "hateful" with my feedback, but have rather given you some food for thought to chew on.

 

[Nordicus]

Instead you get Shrouded, Slow & Purposeful, and, uh... I think defensive grenades, too. Though that might be just the Daemons book; I have to check. But a "Daemon of" is different from a "Mark of," remember that. HOWEVER a 2+ jink save thanks to Shrouded is excellent.

You, sir, are absolutely correct. They do not gain defensive grenades though, as far as I remember.

 

[Archon Grimherald]

No to the grenades, Nurgle loveing prince with Black Mace and wings is great (have a second on my wish list so i can have a winged and non winged). The Lightning claws on the termies one claw or dual? one claw tzeentch is a good choice, dual claws i would go Khorne or Slaneesh especially if Abby is riding shotgun with them. Poessesion on the Land Raider isnt worth the points cus it could get hit then eat Abby by mistake and that would suck. Personally i like the gargoyles im silly like that. And like Mossy said no marks on cultists just a waste of points.

 

[overlordsson]

Alright thanks you guys. But no matter how hard I looked, the terminators are considered infantry which takes one slot in a tank.
The Terminators are also having a pair of lightning claws.

 

[mayegelt]

Page 68 says Terminator Armour gives them Bulky, Relentless, Deepstrike and cant Sweeping Advance.

You could try to free up some points and upgrade the land raider to a Spartan if you have access to Impy Armour Apoc 2013. They cost a little more, but have a TL Heavy 2 version of the lascannon on each side. Also it has a capacity of 25 so could hold 12 Terminators if you needed. It also starts with 'Extra Armour' and an additional 1HP. It does however cost about 1/4 more than the original.

 

[Mossy Toes]

Just checked my Daemons codex--in that book DoN does give defensive grenades, not the CSM book. Like I vaguely suspected, remembering some difference there.

(also they both give Hatred: Daemons of Tzeentch, though I honestly think that's not too important)

Like maygelt says, CSM codex (pg. 68) says any models using Terminator Armor have the "Bulky" special rule which, according to the main rulebook (pg. 159), "Bulky models count as two models for the purposes of Transport Capacity."

 

[Code: Crimson]

Welcome back, heretic! Your Dark Gods have missed you!

You have the right idea with most of this stuff, and as has already been pointed out a lot of the oddities are from some rules misunderstandings, which is totally fine!

Starting with those though, yes, Land Raiders can hold only 5 Termies due to their Bulky armor, or 4 and the Despoiler. So, I would start with that, Abaddon and 4 Termies kitted for close combat. Mossy's statement on Mark of Tzeench is the right way to go, as a 4+ invuln will save your heretical hide against scarier weapons, and you really don't want 30+ points of terminator goodness splattered from a silly AP2 weapon. That squad in a Land Raider alone will be enough to make your opponent's eyes widen in fear.

But the real terror comes from the glorious Daemon Prince! Wings, Armor, Nurgle, and some spicy artefact is the way to go, my personal favorite being The Black Mace for explosive Daemon Weapon fun! Also, this little guy benefits hugely from 7th Edition! You see my friend, you can now Jink for a 4+ Cover Save all of the time. Combine this with Shrouded from Daemon of Nurgle, and you have yourself a heat-seeking nuke with a 2+ cover save all of the time, even against Overwatch, and yes, even against Daemon Weapon rolls of 1 (only says "ignores all armor saves" in the book)! With two huge super durable threats, you'll have them sweating.

That's when the Cultists get some time to move around and hold objectives, and you'll probably want to keep these cats in reserves so that they don't get blasted away early on. Keeping them as cheap as possible is recommended, you just want some objective cappers.

The remaining Termies in your list I feel could be swapped out for either some fire support or a mobile troop choice (Chaos Marines in a Rhino). Fire support can be covered by Obliterators, which if you don't have them you can use the Termies as proxy models, or Havocs with some Autocannons or Lascannons. Also consider some Nurgle Bikers with meltas or flamers to set up meaty assaults for your big guys, they'll be T6 with the Nurgle mark and nightmarish to deal with.

Your list has a solid foundation, so feel free to experiment with tons of stuff to see what works for you!

 

[overlordsson]

Thank you guys for your advice and suggestions. They have been more helpful than you'd think. When I turn my focus from painting to actually making a list, I'll try and make you guys proud and wreak havoc across the universe.

 

[bunji213]

May I suggest a different approach to the terminators. Mos,claws,combi plasma, and icon of excess will give abby FNP and the termis hitting on I5. The other way would be Mok for rerolling charge distances. Nurgle Obliterators deep striking with an unmarked telepathy sorcerer causes headaches for people aswell. I'd personally do that and drop Abaddon all together. It'll free you up some points and stop you putting all your eggs into 1 rather expensive armour 14 basket.