Warhammer 40k Forum and Wargaming Forums banner

1 - 20 of 25 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,323 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Well here we are, with a new Codex to digest. There's been some pretty large changes, first and foremost among them is Assault squads moving to the Fast Attack FoC slot. I'm not too upset about this change, though it has thrown a serious monkey wrench in how I build lists (and not to mention models) for my beloved Angels. Some of my most successful lists incorporated Tactical squads anyway, so I just have to get back to that mind set a bit more. Maybe I'll read a couple Hourus Heresy books to get back in the Bolter mood. Anyway, before I get down to brass tax on these units I'd just like to state one thing: let's keep this positive and constructive on helping people to understand the new Codex in our current rules edition. All that useless 'GW just made them red marines' crap can hit the road, politely speaking. It is what it is, and this is a game where we play with little plastic soldiers ladies and gentlemen. No sense bemoaning what we can't change. If you don't like it, feel free to post about it in the pointless venting thread over in Off Topic (because that's what it is).

Right. On with the fun kiddies!!

HQ

Captain: points cost in line with what's seen in the Space Marine Codex, and we got access to Artificer armour which is nice. Still not the most viable of HQ options, but with the new Relics there can be a lot of fluffy fun to be had here.

Librarian: We have no access to Telepathy and Telekinesis, but gained access to Pyromancy. I'm not too bummed about that, Invisibility kinda made things a bit too easy even with the randomness of getting it.

Tycho: No longer has any combat weapon to speak of. All attacks are made at AP-, though Digital Weapons offer up a single to-wound re roll. His Warlord Trait gives him Rampage, so at least he could have a lot of punches for a marine. He also lost access to Special Issue Ammo, though the Bolter side of Blood Song is now AP4.

Tycho the Lost: A little more expensive than normal Tycho, and can only join Death Company squads (!). With Rage and the Rampage Trait, he has a lot of attacks on the charge. It's a shame he doesn't have a close combat weapon to accompany his pistol, he'd have the potential of 10 attacks on the charge. I guess 9 is ok.....still AP- though.

Librarian Dreadnought: This is probably my favourite thing in the Codex, and I'll be using it frequently. If it's the Warlord, then you have to roll on the Blood Angel Traits table. The upgrade to Mastery Level 2 brings it up to its 5th edition points cost, so it's nice that it got a bit less expensive points-wise if you don't need the extra ML point. It can exchange the Storm Bolter for a Heavy Flamer or Melta Gun which is a sweet bonus, but cannot take Magna Grapples (just like before). I'd really like to experiment with Pyromancy with this guy, but getting Wings of Sanguinius back as a psychic power could be a fun time too. The Furioso Force Halberd is Sx2 AP2, making Force the defining difference between it and the Power Fist on the other hand.

Mephiston: Is now a Captain's profile with S/T5, Transfixing Gaze only works in Challenges (failed Ld test for opponent means he hits on 2+), he has one power already chosen for him (Sanguine Sword, S10 Force Sword) so he can never generate 3 powers plus the Primaris from a discipline, and his Warlord Trait grants him Adamantium Will. Hey, at least he's 75 points less and is an Independent Character now (which renders his Fleet USR useless the squad joined also has it). If you get Unleash Rage as a power, he and his unit could have a hell of a lot of attacks, and on the charge he'll be S6 which is nice if your not charging something you need S10 for. Force still applies for Instant Death, so if you don't really need S10 I'd cast that instead depending on how many Warp Charge dice I have to roll.

The Sanguinor: Same as before, but with one less Attack and a 4++. Re-rolls all failed to hit/wound in Challenges, and Aura of Fervour only affects models within 6" not units. Warlord Trait casts a 12" Fearless bubble, this guy is great to have in the dead centre of your army's assault.

Astorath: Pretty much the same as last edition, but is the only way to get Liturgies of Blood for your Death Company unit. Way cheaper. The axe is the same, but only S+1 (still attacking at S6 on the charge) and causes automatic wounds regardless of Toughness and Instant Death on 6's to wound. He no longer unlocks Death Company as Troops, but he's a sweet way of buffing them out. Basically, I see him as the new Reclusiarch (since they're out as an HQ choice). He does what you want for the Death company in combat, has the stat line you're looking for as well as a useful weapon, and is only 10 points more than a Reclusiarch was with a Jump Pack in the last edition. I'm definitely converting up or buying a model for this guy.

Sanguinary Priest: Hey lookit this guy! He's got two wounds, can lead an army, AND buffs Weapon Skill as well as providing Feel No Pain. It's a shame the rules are only applied to the unit he's attached to and no longer in a 6" bubble, but I see him as a valid HQ choice for reliably buffing units where a Librarian leaves the buffs up to the roll of some dice.

Corbulo: Stat line improvement to Ld10, though he lost 2+ Feel No Pain and doesn't have an Invulnerable save. He IS one fast little fucker though, with his Warlord Trait giving him +1 Initiative and the Red Grail offering the same (in addition to the WS bonus AND being back to the 6" bubble) he's attacking at I7 normally, and I8 on the charge if taken within a Baal Strike Force. Fuck yes. Anyone else care that he's faster than Mephiston now? Not me. I have a reason to paint my old metal one back up and include him now! Far Seeing Eye is nice, though there are subtle limits to what the single re-roll may be. Pretty much any roll that could potentially crucial, I can't think of any reason I'd want to re-roll a dice that isn't listed to be honest.

Techmarine: He's good for bolstering the defenses of a Scout or Devastator squad, repairing your Terminator squads's Land Raider/Stormraven while embarked, and being cheap as fuck while doing it.

Chaplain: Same as before, but without Liturgies of Blood (which is replaced with the Zealot rule). Shame they jacked his Power Fist upgrade, though with his decrease in points it comes out to the same end result anyway. I think I'd pretty much always prefer to run Astorath, but a Priest and a Chaplain running with some Death Company costs a bit less than he and could arguably be the better option for buffing those black armoured nut jobs. I don't remember the last time I took two HQs but this has me interested in the option for sure!

HOLY CRAP we're finally at the end of the HQ section. 12 options, folks. There's a friggin' ton of variety here, with each option slightly tweaking the way you want to bulk out your force. I'm the most excited for Astorath (combined with less expensive Jump Death Company), a Priest and Chaplain, and the Librarian Dreadnought.

Troops

Tactical Squad: Points drop puts them in line with the Space Marine Codex, but the addition of the Heavy Flamer and the ability to take Heavy/Special weapons at less than 10 members makes them just so much more...tactical than they were for us before. I'm planning on playing my current two 10 man squads with Heavy Flamers and Melta Guns in Rhinos or Lascannons and Plasma Guns on foot I think. Another sweet thing is that Tactical (Veteran) Sergeants can take Hand Flamers and Inferno Pistols, which makes their drop pod worth almost as awesome as Assault squads. Beefcake.

Scout Squad: Same deal, if you're vexed about not having Objective Secured on your Assault marines any more just stick to using the Baal Strike Force and only play 3 of them while taking dual 5 man Scout squads. They are as inexpensive their Space Marine counterparts and will eat up only a small part of your army's total points cost. Plus they're great for holding objectives and putting wounds on Monstrous Creatures (with Sniper Rifles of course, and barring armour saves).

....because how varied does your Troops section need to be, right? Meat and potatoes, right there. Learn to love it and move on :drinks:

Elites

Command Squad: Come standard with a Champion and Sanguinary Novitiate, though he only provides Feel No Pain and does not buff Weapon Skill. This kinda kills the real versatility of this unit that the Space Marine codex offers in that neither model is allowed to take weapon upgrades. I'd be more OK with this if the Champion was allowed to upgrade his Combat Shield to a Storm Shield, but he can't. I'm afraid I still see this unit as a fluff piece and not especially viable in a competitive setting, but I'll be building one up regardless. My home-made Priest doesn't fit as an HQ in my mind, and shall see use (one day) in this unit as he has a Bolt Pistol and no Grail.

Death Company: No more 0-1 restriction and they can score (tee hee), but they're in contention with a ton of other really valid options in this category. They cost the same as before, but only have WS4. The key difference is that they are now valid Jump Infantry, with the upgrade costing a mere 30 points for 10 models. Them with Astorath and a Priest is only less expensive than the previous edition in that Astorath has been reduced, but damn that's a fun unit to have. Heck if you can add Unleash Rage on this unit in the Psychic Phase, they're going to be WS/S/I5 on the charge with 6 attacks each (assuming pistol/combat weapon and Baal Strike Force), re-rolling to hit and to wound. Nutty, right? RHETORICAL the answer is yes. Expensive...but so much fun.

Lemartez: Now takes up his own slot but is pretty much the same. A bit less expensive, and when he loses a wound he gets +1 S/A until he's dead. I'm not seeing much use for this guy unless you're playing dual FoC's, a fluffy army, or Unbound, as there's way more useful Elites options to fill a slot.

Sanguinary Guard: Got a decent price drop but are otherwise the same.

Dreadnought: Pretty much identical with a subtle points drop. Now that they're in the Elites slot, I don't seem them being included in many lists since you can get better firepower from the Heavy Support section and there's everything else to compete with here (started listing things to take instead, realized I was listing almost everything).

Death Company Dreadnought: Same as before, but WS4/A3. Blood Talons are now Sx2 AP2 Shred, but can't generate more attacks. It has more attacks than the Furioso on the charge and isn't slowed by over half of the Vehicle Damage Chart, but I'm still not convinced that makes up for it only being AV12.

Furioso Dreadnought: Drop to WS5, and basically gets a free Heavy Flamer when you take the Frag Cannon option which is nice. My Fragiosos will continue to frustrate my opponents!

Magna Grapples are now free upgrades for either of these last two Dreadnought types, in exchange for Smoke Launchers. They grant Move Through Cover and a re-roll of charge distances against tanks, which is cooler and less clunky than their previous rules. Still, I love me a 5+ cover save once per game when I'm invariably left out in the open.

Terminator/Terminator Assault Squads: Identical, but now the only units in the Codex that can take Land Raiders as Dedicated Transports.

Vanguard Veterans: Saw a decent points reduction and lost the ability to Assault out of Deep Strike, but their Jump Packs dropped to the same cost as the Death Company's did. Basically, I see these guys as my combat oriented Command Squad option now.

Sternguard Veterans: Identical aside from a bit of a points drop.

LOTS to choose from here. Good thing the Baal Strike Force Detachment allows for 4 Elites slots; 1 is even mandatory! I can see me running two Fragiosos in Pods, a Jump DC squad, and a Sanguinary Guard squad to fill that up. Plenty of Blood Angel flavour in here.

Fast Attack

Rhino: Subtle point drop, can be taken without a unit inside for Allied use.

Razorback: More expensive! With the change to turret upgrades, this guy only comes out 5 points less expensive than in the previous 'dex with a fancy turret.

Drop Pod: Deathwind Launchers are a bit less expensive, but otherwise the only change is that this bad boy is now a Fast Attack option when not taken as a Dedicated Transport. Something I just noticed is that it does NOT have the Bulky/Very or Extremely Bulky limitation on its transport capacity. Nice. Now when I buy that gorgeous new Terminator Assault squad I can experiment with dropping them out of a Pod!

Land Speeder Squadron: Pretty much the same.

Assault Squad: Yup. Here they are! All the same options as before, but with a base point cost reduction and the ability to take two special weapons regardless of squad size. No more access to Razorbacks, as if 6th edition didn't kill that idea bad enough. Drop Pods and Rhinos are free for them in a trade for their Jump capabilities. 5 Assault marines in a Drop Pod with 2x Melta Guns being 105 points is both the cheapest and most effective for that cost T1 armour strike I've ever seen. Keep in mind if you put a Priest with this squad and take it with the Codex Detachment they're WS/S/I5 on the charge with Feel No Pain. They may not have Objective Secured (which doesn't matter within this Detachment anyway) and may not be Troops, but that's a more effective unit than it was before.

Bike Squad: Big ol' points reduction. Have I mentioned yet that all instances where Special Weapons can be taken that the Grav Gun is an option? I'm not a huge fan of them and White Scars do Bikes teh bestest, but there they are for whoever wants them.

Attack Bike Squad: Small points increase.

Scout Bike Squad: Nice point reduction.

That's it here, seems a bit lackluster after the HQ and Elites shakeup. Assault squads are the clear winner in this category for me, aside from the new ability to offer my allies and various other units Drop Pod capabilities.

Heavy Support

Stormraven Gunship: Same as before, though the missiles are now AP2 instead of AP1. Also, I notice that the wording for Hurricane Bolter sponsons state that you replace your side exits with them. Nothing too huge, since there's exits front and back, but hey. They wrote it, so I noted it. Extra Armour is extra cheap for this vehicle compared to others.

Devastators: Same as in the Space Marine Codex.

Baal Predator: Here he is! Vying for the limelight next to basically everything else that has heavier firepower options. It'll be a tough decision for most people in this category if they will still include their dakka preds. It might just come down to a meta-by-meta reality that dictates this bad-boy's use. The last of the tanks that come stock with Overcharged Engines. Something I really like about this is that the sponsons took a point drop and so did the pintle Storm Bolter, which means I can take the Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolters, and Stormbolter for 15 points less than before. All of the shots!!

Predator: Base point cost increase, but the (at times massive) points decrease for upgrades makes up for it. As I said before, it's pretty much just what you face more that will decide between the two Predators...IF you take them over the other options. Option to upgrade to Overcharged Engines.

Vindicator: Nice little points drop, can still upgrade to involve Overcharged Engines and be cheaper than before.

Whirlwind: Big points drop, Engine upgrade available, still pretty useless. At least we can't take the Thunderfire Cannon, which would make it even more useless.

Land Raider (and Variants): Identical.

Again, lots of good options here. If you loved using a ton of Land Raiders before, then you're going to be making a lot of hard decisions I'm sure. Personally, I will likely maintain dual Stormraven in this category, with either a Devastator squad or Baal Predator for the third slot depending on the prevalent winds of my mood.

Lord Of War

Commander Dante: The bad-ass is back. Stat line is the same, his Axe is no longer Unwieldy and his mask causes Fear in all units that are locked in combat and within 6" not just who he is in base to base with. If you're playing with Tactical Objectives he gets an Warlord Trait off that table in addition to his normal Trait, which allows re-rolls of Reserve rolls and D6" Deep Strike for Jump troops, Fliers (obviously excluded from the Deep Strike portion of the rule), and Skimmers. Very modest point drop, but the move to Lord Of War really puts him in is place in larger games only I think. He's the friggin' oldest Space Marine, after all.

Gabriel Seth: Same stat line and a meager point drop, but he gained Rage and Furious Charge. Whirlwind of Gore changed to be the same as Tesla weapons from Necrons, and his two-handed weapon is Sx2 AP4 with Rending. He also has the same Trait as Tycho, so could effectively have 9 attacks on the charge at S7 I6 generating extra hits on 6's and potentially Rending. Friggin' decent, I would say.

Loving these two characters, and I'll be painting my Dante back up to include with an eventual box of Sanguinary Guard in larger games for sure.

I'm going to call it quits at this point since I'm kinda going cross-eyed, but feel free to add or question all you'd like. Hope this gives people a good feel for where the army is headed!

Updates in magenta.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,190 Posts
Disappointing, to my mind. Leaving aside unbound as essentially a non-starter, lets have a comparison of Troops changes. Last edition, ASM, DC, DC Dreads, Tacs, Scouts, SG. This edition, Tacs and Scouts. No way to make the others Ob Sec (which is important), never mind FoC swaps.

So in an army designed to be the choppiest power armour, the most basic units are... shooty. Great. And they don't get any special rules to make them better at that job a la bolter drill, tactical doctrine etc. Instead they get Furious Charge, which is a combat ability on a shooty unit, who ought to be double tapping with bolters to soften things up for your actual melee units, or going after Tanks with specials and heavies. So the BA tac squad is worse at its job than the vanilla codex, or even Space Wolves, who get double specials and CCWs for Drop Podding.

Scouts are always terrible, being 1 cover ignoring template away from dying like sheep. Bad in assault, bad in shooting. One of the most mediocre units in existance, with 8 of them putting exactly 2 wounds on whatever they shoot with snipers, which is why mine are always bolters and HB. At least then they can double tap.

DC were never very impressive to me, being too expensive and dying too easy. So that's not a loss. Dante-wing was great against some armies and bad against others, and I never ran it. But the real loss is ASM.

Previously, the core of most BA armies was ASM. Its what made it feel completely different to vanilla. It played differently. It had different rules. Now you have lost ALL your special rules barring double melta, and have to dilute your army with sub-optimal Tacs and Scouts. No DoA, no reserves rerolls, and no army-wide FnP. You can no longer take 2 libbies and 2 priests and effectively buff 30-40 marines. You get one or the other, and are capped at 20, and thats assuming you don't have any better units that need the buffs. Sure, you can use a pod, but then you're not getting HoW hits, and have no MM to threaten up to 12-24" effectively. Any fool can bubblewrap 6" from his tanks, and your pods aren't Ob Sec.

From my point of view, the BA dex has gone from one of the most versatile books to a pale shadow of even the Vanilla codex. The HQs are bad, pretty much mostly being nerfed. Elites is the only place you can take non-vanilla options so only has two real options if you don't want to just play with red marines, and both lost their most important rule. FA was always lacklustre apart from Baals and bikes who could benefit from FnP and remains so. HS is Vanilla entirely, because without Scout, Baals are inferior to faster moving units like Ravens.

Tycho is a joke, and has been for a very long time now, because GW is too lazy to redesign him with a fucking sword. He kills 1-2 marines on the charge and provides no useful benefit to his unit or the army. Mephy is no longer a power house because he can't move 12" every turn and assault with Fleet. Corbulo has gone from a tank to cowering at the back with no Invun. Sanguinor still dies easy and is overcosted. Absolutely nothing special about the others.

Nice models though.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,190 Posts
In terms of the way the army is now playable then I see it basically as a deathstar army, with some configuration of astorath, corbulo and 20 Jump Dc or Sang Guard running up the table to punch stuff, behind covering first wave of Pods or Rhinos to block LoS ffrom key enemy firepower units. Double melta ASM or HF/Flamer Tacs. I can't see another way to play it that isn't done better by another codex.
 

·
Warsmith
Joined
·
1,190 Posts
Tycho is a joke, and has been for a very long time now.
Tycho is also dead and using him will get you allot of grief in my Local gaming group.

But anyway, Iam expecting this dex to be like the tyranids, the book itself is sub-par put quickly with other additional material it becomes very powerful.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,323 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
:laugh: so, Sethis...you selling your BA models? If you don't want to play BA any more that's cool. This thread is about how people can use the new Codex (which I will get to more in depth as I digest it and work out some new lists, provided others don't beat me to it), not about how much you hate the new changes. To reference my OP:

let's keep this positive and constructive on helping people to understand the new Codex in our current rules edition. All that useless 'GW just made them red marines' crap can hit the road, politely speaking. It is what it is, and this is a game where we play with little plastic soldiers ladies and gentlemen. No sense bemoaning what we can't change. If you don't like it, feel free to post about it in the pointless venting thread over in Off Topic (because that's what it is).
But anyway, Iam expecting this dex to be like the tyranids, the book itself is sub-par put quickly with other additional material it becomes very powerful.
I'm very interested in dataslates and supplements to this Codex. There's been quite the talk of the various Companies, and we now have a sculpted 1st company standard which is cool. It would be awesome if there was a dataslate for DC centered armies as well, but I'm not holding my breath. You can run them Unbound, and at least they're scoring and Jump Packs are WAY less now.

I didn't cover the Warlord Traits from this book (because I wasn't sure how rule-y I can get), which is where 'Descent of Angels' as we knew it lies. Dante comes standard with it, and you get a re-roll if you don't get it off the hop. Only Trait I find really useless is the one that grants Adamantium Will, the rest of them have decent in-game applications.

....I've gone on record several times over the last year pining for Tycho to be dropped from the 'dex and to get a new Character, whether it be from BA or one of their successors. It saddened me to see him in there still, and taking up two pages now instead of just one. Ah well.
 

·
Rattlehead
Joined
·
6,741 Posts
I didn't cover the Warlord Traits from this book (because I wasn't sure how rule-y I can get), which is where 'Descent of Angels' as we knew it lies. Dante comes standard with it, and you get a re-roll if you don't get it off the hop. Only Trait I find really useless is the one that grants Adamantium Will, the rest of them have decent in-game applications.
Dante seems like a solid choice purely because he gets Descent of Angels as standard. That's pretty powerful.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,323 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
Dante is a beast that attacks with 6 attacks on the charge with a WS6/S7/I7/AP2 stat line. Let alone if Corbulo's within 6" (WS7/I8) or if you have a Libby casting Unleash Rage (+2 attacks) on him. Not only am I actually busting my old metal model out, but I'm buying Sanguinary Guard to go with him- something I would have never done with the old Codex due to points cost and inefficiency. The only thing that would be sweeter would be if we could get him more reliably to S8 for some Instant Death without Iron Arm.

Gone are the days of a Battle-Forged Sanguinary Guard army (out of the codex, anyway), but with the Baal Strike Force you don't get Objective Secured...so who cares? With a mere 4 Troops choices (4x Tactical squads with PGs and RBs is 600 points, I plan on going 3 and a Scout squad for 520) you can do a double FOC army and have 8 Elites choices. Sanguinary Guard got a massive points drop, the ability to take 10 man squads, and with the inclusion of Priests get WS5. Oh, and not to mention the whole +1 Strength and Initiative on the charge thing.

You can't take them as Troops, but fuck are they better than they used to be. I know Objective Secured is a loss, I've played many Unbound vs. Battle Forged games. Learn how to appropriately gauge target priority and you won't be left wanting on an Objective at the end of the game, you'll be standing on the bloody corpse of your enemy.

...that is, so long as the dice agree this is the way the game shall end. Dice can make this game exceptionally unfair.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
232 Posts
Im a elder player who's starting a Blood angles army and for a point of view from someone who doesn't know anything about the pervious codex, Ill just say this! I love this codex, To me its a lot of fun and I love the death Company units, I think they have amazing potential. And everyone needs to relax, one the supplement comes out Im sure we will saw amazing formations and new rules, Look at the sons of fernis book and the one for Dark Eldar, some strong options in those books! So for me I love this new book, its not crazy strong nor is it week. Yes this army Is supposed to be a beast in cc and it still is, I don't know many units that can stand up to a charge of DC. Yes they may be shot up before they reach the objective but thats how the games works, Smart players go for units that can wreck them, For me its all about a unit balance and having my opponent picking his way of death. Thanks ntaw for a great read! I myself will be having Groups of DC in all my lists, Its fun and I like the fluff, thats what this game is all about :)
 

·
So be it.
Joined
·
1,901 Posts
The only two things that annoy me heavily about this are the loss of ObSec RAS and the loss of Baals in FA. If these two units were in their old spots, this book would be exactly what I want.

That in mind, I love the book. I'm rarely too concerned about obsec anyway, and if I want to play my standard 2 raven 2 baal and vindicator I can just go unbound or take some extra troops. No biggie :) I also love the new BA formation.

I think my lists will be fairly similar but with important changes. Tac. in the backfield (I often took these anyway) to hold objectives and provide fire support, RAS filling my fast attack slots, a priest and a libbie, and then rotating between ravens and my fast tanks depending on the opponents. I do have a mantic ADL equivalent, though, so I might use that for anti-air coupled with my new defency troops. Sure, it makes blitzkrieg harder, but if I really want to do that I'll take Tac. in a pod with a flamer, heavy flamer and 2 hand flamers (or the melta equivalent) and blow shit to smithereens along with pretty much the exact same army as before, but a bit cheaper.

Plus, Dante is now the beast he always deserved to be.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,509 Posts
I don't know what to think of this codex, I read it and I love it
But then I open the troops chart and I just... Hate... It
It would have been so easy for them to just add in Dante retaining nipple wing, or astrath giving DC troops, or a JP captain making assault marines troops
He'll even giving tactical marines the option of a CCW would have suited!
But no- and so I'm forced to play a totally different army to the old codex...
Maybe... Maybe the supplement will fix this...
I recon it'll be DC supplement personally, that'll be cool
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,323 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
Thanks ntaw for a great read!
Cheers man, glad you enjoyed it :drinks:

The core of my army I think is going to be two 5 man Tactical squads with PGs in Razorbacks with a Baal Predator accompanying them. I also pretty much am always going to play my two Fragiosos, and a 10 man Assault squad Melta'd up Drop Pods. As for close combat selctions, Astorath and a 5 man DC with JPs and a PF, Dante and a 5 man Sanguinary Guard unit with a PF (Priest as a cheap HQ that goes with the DP Assault squad, reducing their squad by one marine), Chaplain and Priest both with JPs with DC (again, I'm really starting to feel a lone PF in here over Axes)....all of which are pretty good at what they do and decidedly Blood Angel-y. Haven't even gotten into how inexpensive a Libby is and how nicely they can buff a squad with the new Sanguinary Discipline. Stormravens join the party as the points level goes up, otherwise I'll pretty much be ignoring Fliers. My 2k list is looking something like this:

Baal Strike Force Detachment

Lord of War

Dante

HQ

Astorath

Elites
7x Death Company - Jump Packs, Power Fist

5x Sanguinary Guard - 4x Swords, Power Fist

Furioso - Frag Cannon, Heavy Flamer, Drop Pod

Furioso - Frag Cannon, Heavy Flamer, Drop Pod

Troops

5x man Tactical squad - Plasma Gun, Razorback

5x man Tactical squad - Plasma Gun, Razorback

5x man Scout squad - Sniper Rifles, Camo Cloaks

Fast Attack

10x man Assault squad - 2x Melta Guns, Power Fist, Drop Pod

Heavy Support

Baal Predator - Twin Linked Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolters, Storm Bolter

Stormraven - Twin Linked Multi Melta and Lascannon

2,001 points

More on lists here.
 

·
Rattlehead
Joined
·
6,741 Posts
I still think that bringing Tacticals in Razorbacks and Assault Marines in Rhinos, then switching them over at the start of the game, is a cool idea if you're set on bringing a bunch of light tanks (not great in 7th, but you could do worse).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,323 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I can see why some people might want to do that, but then you still have assault troops in a non-assault vehicle. I'd sooner take 5 man squads with 2x Meltas shooting out of the top hatch of a Rhino than put them somewhere their extra access to special weapons can't be capitalized on.
 

·
Rattlehead
Joined
·
6,741 Posts
Meh, I can't remember the last time I fired out of a top hatch or had any units left in their transports by the end of turn 2 - Marines are expensive, so I can't afford to have them sat in tanks, and Orks die horribly if they're in their Battlewagons and closer than 18" to the enemy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,323 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
To be fair, your average Ork dies horribly when called upon to take a single armour save. I won't be running my Assault squads any differently than with the previous Codex, with Jump Packs or in Drop Pods.

Crap I gotta get me an Astorath model.
 

·
Rattlehead
Joined
·
6,741 Posts
To be fair, your average Ork dies horribly when called upon to take a single armour save. I won't be running my Assault squads any differently than with the previous Codex, with Jump Packs or in Drop Pods.

Crap I gotta get me an Astorath model.
Very true, but Battlewagons are one of the most effective anti-Ork units I know; half of them just dying off the bat taking them down to squad size: useless is crazy.

Assault Marines seem best taken as 2x Meltaguns with Jump Packs with Descent of Angels from Dante. You could drop pod them, but since Space Wolves and Space Marines both do good Drop Pod armies I'd rather have something special for BA (and you can Hammer of Wrath to get even more hits before the enemy can strike back - operating at I10/5 is really nice).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
580 Posts
Mephiston saw a bit of a nerf, but also a point drop plus getting a bit of his psychic "bang" back.
I will still run a high end dc unit of 15 w/ j-packs. Love the drop for them. I will get a list asap....

As for the specialist weapons...
Scouts + lightning claw (obscene fun)
Assault troops... if you are pumping a 5 man into a rhino, think about a second squad (5 man) in the same rhino w/ specialist weapons... double the bang.

I love Dante as a lord of war, but feel Seth without a company data slate is a bit of a slight. Not as a real bad thing, its good but for the codex it should have more focused on BA as a core. Or its just me.

I would love to see more ba successor chapters, I feel seth would have been great there.

Cheers!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,323 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Assault troops... if you are pumping a 5 man into a rhino, think about a second squad (5 man) in the same rhino w/ specialist weapons... double the bang.
Wait...what? You can't have more than one unit embarked on a Rhino and only two weapons can shoot out of the top anyway.

Hilarious that a Scout sergeant can take a LC. Didn't notice that!
 
1 - 20 of 25 Posts
Top