[BucketWalrus]

Well, my friend is up to his old crap again and wants another game with his tervigon (now hes bringing a Trygon too! T_T). This time I want to see if I can even face off against em.

Nidz: (i dont know how many hes brining, only the types)
Hq: Tervigon
Elites: Zoanthrope
Troops:
Gaunts
Gaunts
Heavy: Trygon

Me:
HQ:
Sorcerer, MoS, Lash, familiar 130
Elites:
5 Chosen, IoCG, 5 melta 150
Troops:
11 CSM, 2xMelta, Champ w/fist combi-melta 235
11 CSM, 2xMelta, Champ w/fist combi-melta 235

750 on the dot.

good for against his list?

 

[Primarch Lorgar]

try this out for size,

chaos lord, MoK daemon weapon

5 chosen w/ 5 flamers

8 zerkers (go with lord) in rhino

12 CSMs, champ w/ fist 2x flamers

 

[Flame80010]

try this out for size,

chaos lord, MoK daemon weapon

5 chosen w/ 5 flamers

8 zerkers (go with lord) in rhino

12 CSMs, champ w/ fist 2x flamers

the only problem i see with that is the Zerkers are not going to do anything to his MC's (ok they will do somthing... but i still think a Skullchamp and Pfist is required D

This list (above) looks better then this one (below) though

HQ:
Sorcerer, MoS, Lash, familiar 130
Elites:
5 Chosen, IoCG, 5 melta 150
Troops:
11 CSM, 2xMelta, Champ w/fist combi-melta 235
11 CSM, 2xMelta, Champ w/fist combi-melta 235

this list has FAR to much melta for basicly 2-3 MC's, Swarms are going to stomp all over you
i would take heart on what Primarch said but for your HQ either a DP with wings MoS and Lash, or the Berserker lord (Chaos lord with MoK Deamon weapon) or Khran then run Two Squads of 8 Berserkers with Skullchamps and powerfists :3

the use the last of your points to buy a new squad if possible, or Beef up somthing else :3

and Remember BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!

 

[angelXD19]

I do agree a little to many meltas. for the chosen I would drop to meltas for two flamers. Then switch the combi meltas for combi flamers. with the extra points from the switch on the flamers you can change your sorcerer to a termie sorcerer. same set up except he doesn't have the familiar

 

[BucketWalrus]

familiar lets me use lash and force weapon on the same turn (this will be needed since the sorcerer is going to be a big target for my opponent)

I looked back at my list and I did realise I had far to many meltas (I was hoping on turn 1 i would fry the Tervigon before it can unload its babies of retardedness, then the trygon

New list
HQ:
Sorcerer, MoS, Lash, familiar, terminator armor, combi-flamer (or melta) 150
Elites:
5 chosen, 4 melta 1 flamer (these guys have only 1 purpose, FRY THOSE MC'S) 135
Troops:
11CSM 1flamer, 1melta Champ/fist combi-flamer 230
11CSM 1flamer, 1melta Champ/fist combi-flamer 230
745pts
backed off the melta, got some flamers

 

[Flame80010]

i still really dont think you need that much melta, the chosen are fine with it, bur 2 Flamer to one Melta is really enough IMHO

and i do think you should run atleast one squad of Berserkers They will eat swarms of Termagaunts for lunch o.o, and if you put a Skull champ with PF in them they will eat him MC's as well :3

 

[Syko515]

ok, personally i would ditch the chosen and the extra dudes in the CSM squads to toss in an oblit or two. agenst nids their going to own house especially with a lash on the field.

 

[BucketWalrus]

Yes but the issue is hes bringing a tervigon, which at every turn can spawn a decent sized group of gaunts (which are free men that do the same thing that dont cost a thing) I wanted to prioritize the tervigon as a main target and hopefully kill it (or get it into combat) on the first turn (which i hope is mine as well) and be done with it)

Ill see what I can come up with instead:

HQ:
Sorcerer, MoS, lash, familiar 130
Troops:
10 CSM, 2flamers, champ w/fist, combi-melta 210
10 CSM, 2flamers, champ w/fist, combi-melta 210
5 CSM, 1flamer, champ w/PW, Combi-flamer 120
(OR!! champ w/fist and TL bolter)
Heavy:
1 Oblit 75

745 pts - 750pts(if using the OR)
Cut off the chosen, got another 5 marines and an oblit.

How this on for size?

 

[Flame80010]

Yes but the issue is hes bringing a tervigon, which at every turn can spawn a decent sized group of gaunts (which are free men that do the same thing that dont cost a thing) I wanted to prioritize the tervigon as a main target and hopefully kill it (or get it into combat) on the first turn (which i hope is mine as well) and be done with it)

Ill see what I can come up with instead:

HQ:
Sorcerer, MoS, lash, familiar 130
Troops:
10 CSM, 2flamers, champ w/fist, combi-flamer 210
10 CSM, 2melta, champ w/fist, combi-flamer 210
5 CSM, 1flamer, champ w/PW, Combi-flamer 120
(OR!! champ w/fist and TL bolter)
Heavy:
1 Oblit 75

745 pts - 750pts(if using the OR)
Cut off the chosen, got another 5 marines and an oblit.

How this on for size?

i like it (use the OR)

EDIT: i still think you should have a Squad of Berserkers with Skull champ and Pfist

Remember when they Charge they will hit on 3's (WS4 vs WS3) and Wound on 2's Against Gaunts

now im not good at mathhammer... but i mean 4 attacks at S5 Per model + 4 atatcks at S9 on the charge (Good Squad size is 8) so 7*4 = 28 atatcks of those 2/3 should hitwhich is about 18-19 hits
of those 5/6 should wound which comes to about 15 wounds then after armor saves about 12-13 guants die

this of corse does not inclue the powerfists, but really they have effectivly lost 12-13 models before they ever get to strike back

they can charge insanly easily because of your Lash sorc as well so really they are just going to run around ripping these gaunts up (i think the total gaunts dead including the PF is about 15-16 or somthing)

Happy slaughtering

 

[Hesky]

Two units of havocs with 4xMissile launchers (310 pts for both) and this game is a nap.. Put a MOS lash daemon prince nearby to ward off an unwanted assault by the Trygon and that Tervigon is going to get popped probably first turn taking most of the gaunts with it.. Then finish off the remaining gaunts with frag...

It should be so easy you will probably table him by turn 3...

EDIT: Just make your two troop choices 2x (5) CSM with a flamer each just in case the gaunts survive the destruction of the Tervigon..

 

[BucketWalrus]

Yes, but berzerkers are expensive and I can't bring flamers or meltas. Yes I agree berzerkers are very powerful against gaunts, but hes only bringing VERY few of them (this is 750pts, a tervigon is 200+, a zoan is another 100+, and a trygon is ANOTHER 200+
not much room for gaunts.
AND Ive got an obliterator to drop a template on gaunts, or attempt to lascannon one of the MC's

If i were to take berzerkers (8man, champ w/fist, 208, which is 2 points less then 10 marines with two specials and a champ with a fist AND a combiweapon)

That means im losing alot of fire-power for stronger CC, (ws5, str5, I5 on a charge) I'm still hitting the MC's on 3's and wounding on 5's, and still 2's on the Powerfists (and an extra attack) Id rather have the two flamers, two extra guys (thats 6 attacks), the combi weapon over that.

8zerkers, champ w/fist = 28 + 5
10marines + champ w/fist = 27 + 4
I lose 2 attacks, harder to wound them (big woop, 3's instead of 2's). on the normal attacks BUT I gain two flamers/meltas, a combiweapon, and extra men.

lets say hes got 20 gaunts
I move 10 marines up and i lash the gaunts into a nice flamer-size formation and let loose two flamers and a combi-flamer (gaunts have a 5+ so they lose that) lets say thanks to lash i net 10hits each flamer. THATS 30 HITS THAT WOUND ON 3's, lets say 15 wound. thats 15/20 dead gaunts.
Oh wait, i still have pistols from 7 other guys, lets shoot those. 5 hit, 3 wound Another 3 dead gaunts. lets assault those 2 surviving ones. destroy them. (THIS IS BEING GENEROUS ON THE WOUNDS, usually the flamers would have been enough)
Now lets do the berzerkers.
20 gaunts.
I lash em into assault range. fire off my 8 pistols. 5hit, 3 wound. 17 gaunts left.
assault them.
28 attacks (hitting first,) On 3's, half hit 14, on 2's, 10hits. He gets his 5+, 5 fail. 12 gaunts left.
gaunts hit back. on 4's, 5's, 6 hit, 3 wound, fail 1. lost a zerker
powerfist hits, 3's, 2's, 4 hit, 4 wound. 6 gaunts left.
YOUR STILL IN COMBAT.

My point made.
Now lets do it against the tervigon (str6,T6,6wounds)
Move guys up, lash with sorcerer (the lash works on MC's!)
fire the combi-melta at it (on 3's, 2's, hits, wounds) 5 left.
spray the two flamers, wounds on 6's (1 wound if im lucky) 3+save, passes it(just cus)
7bolt pistols, on 3's, 6's, (4-5hit, 2 wound) fails a save for the hell of it. 4 left.

charging it, 27 attacks, on 3's, 6's (18hit, 4 wound, fails 1) down to 3, his 3 attacks back. on 4's, 2's kills 1-2marines.
Powerfist 4 attacks, on 3's, 2's 3 hit, 3 wound (I usually roll nice on my powerfists) DEAD TERVIGON.

now lets do zerkers.
8 zerkers.
8 pistols, 5 hits, 2 wound, passes them.
charge
28 attacks, on 3's, 5's. 18 hit, 7 wound. fails 2, down to 4
tervigon hits back, kills 1-2 zerkers
5 powerfist attacks. 3's, 2's, 4hit, 3-4 wound. dead or down to 1

Now the tervigon would most-likely die to either, but the fact remains, the special weapons are a dead-NEED. thus berzerkers aren't needed for this fight.


EDIT: Hesky, only the gaunts SPAWNED by the tervigon suffer that rule.
and yes havocs are nice, but they aren't quite fitting enough then getting close and personal with flamers/meltas

 

[jaws900]

melta is a bit of a waste here with your chosen i feel. Give them plasma and that will fry that Tervigon for a greater distance. I have never like Lash really and i think that Wind of Chaos would be better. The other option if Gift of Chaos but you would need to get lucky with the dice to turn his trygon into mush.

 

[Lord Rahl]

Why have got a familiar, its not like you have the second power to cast, i think you should drop it and use the points elsewhere. Also take some havocs all armed with flamers/plasma in a rhino to take out the tervigon and/or the gaunts.

 

[Hesky]

EDIT: Hesky, only the gaunts SPAWNED by the tervigon suffer that rule.

Errrr since when?

I have the codex in front of me right now.. And it says..

"Should a Tervigon be slain, EVERY termagant brood, spawned or otherwise,"

I play Nids and CSM and believe me. That army list would destroy his without so much as a problem. How the hell are havocs not fitting? Keep them at range and unload krak missiles at the Tervigon until its dead. Use lash to push back the Trygon until your launchers are free again. Then after the Tervigon (And most of the Termagants die. Check your friends codexs hes cheating you by the way.) He shouldnt even get in CC range with anything unless you have two turns of spam firing. Then mop up as necessary with Krak/Frag. Its as bloody fitting as it gets and as I said... He wouldnt survive past turn 3.

28 attacks (hitting first,) On 3's, half hit 14, on 2's, 10hits. He gets his 5+, 5 fail. 12 gaunts left. Err Termagants have a 6+ not 5+.
gaunts hit back. on 4's, 5's, 6 hit, 3 wound, fail 1. lost a zerker
powerfist hits, 3's, 2's, 4 hit, 4 wound. 6 gaunts left. Your maths is a little off here. 3s to hit and 2s to wound with 4 dice is not 4 wounds in any mathematicians book
YOUR STILL IN COMBAT. This is a good thing for a berserker.. It means they cant be shot at

My point made. What was your point exactly?
Now lets do it against the tervigon (str6,T6,6wounds)
Move guys up, lash with sorcerer (the lash works on MC's!)
fire the combi-melta at it (on 3's, 2's, hits, wounds) 5 left.
spray the two flamers, What?? You are going to get up close to his Termagant spawning monstrous creature? Have you lost your mind?wounds on 6's (1 wound if im lucky) 3+save, passes it(just cus)
7bolt pistols, on 3's, 6's, (4-5hit, 2 wound) fails a save for the hell of it. 4 left.

charging it, 27 attacks, on 3's, 6's (18hit, 4 wound, fails 1) down to 3, his 3 attacks back. on 4's, 2's kills 1-2marines.
Powerfist 4 attacks, on 3's, 2's 3 hit, 3 wound (I usually roll nice on my powerfists) Nice strategy lol DEAD TERVIGON.

Now the tervigon would most-likely die to either, but the fact remains, the special weapons are a dead-NEED. thus berzerkers aren't needed for this fight. Listen to the people giving you advice. Or did you simply post your army list on here so you could ignore it and justify your own flawed list?

People have come up with some good ideas here and your decision to stick with melta and to hell with them is a tad annoying. I mean why either bother asking in the first place. Your knowledge of the Tyranids is clearly lacking somewhat and getting up close and personal with them is a TERRIBLE idea. Almost as bad an idea as taking meltas when missile launchers will do the same for you at 48" and give you both the Anti-Horde option and Anti-MC option you need. After all his MCs only have a 3+ armour save... You DID know that... didnt you??

 

[Flame80010]

eh yes... but your forgetting one thing

Berserkers will DETER him form getting close to you...

Therefor keeping his swarms away so others may shoot at them

also... how are 4 S9 powerfist atatcks (in the charge) not going to do more damage to his MC's then a single S8 melta shot...?

not to mention all the S5 attacks (wounding on 5's) from all the rest of the Berserkers you will charge with

All im saying is, Berserkers not only rip ass in combat, they will also deter him from just charging you

and remember... Flamers are only going to get one shot... then either you will charge or be charged and its going to do sweet fuck all against MC's so Berserkers once again beat it in that respect...

and yes i saw that that 10 man squad has a powerfist.... it will also have a weaker person using it (not that much a difference, but that one attack can be the difference between killing a MC and getting your Sqaud owned)

also Berserkers are Fearless, which is both a blessing and a curse, but it means your not going to run away like a little bitch after his MC charges you and kills half your squad :/

even if you dont get to charge with them all game, the Berserkers are still going to keep him off your ass and stop him from just charging into you with masses of Gaunts (they cost like 5 points each so dont pull that Bs that he doesnt have enough to get some, PLUS hes going to be spawning more)

in Warhammer you not only have to think about what a unit can do, but also what a unit can stop your opponant from doing

 

[BucketWalrus]

I guess ive been a bit pigheaded, and I asked to see my friends codex and i was shocked, SO MANY THINGS HES BEEN CHEATING ME ON (bone swords are NOT bone SABERS, whip only effect's BASE CONTACT units, tervigon effects all gaunts, etc)
that aside. I apologize for my previous posts, I truely thought meltas would do the trick, but 18 angry zerkers and a sorcerer wrecking havoc, with 4 missle launchers behind them seems better off

I will design a list to your suggestions

HQ: (I know a dp is better, but I don't have one, and my friend refuses to let me proxy one)
Sorcerer, MoS, Lash, familiar (as I said, bringing a familiar allows the sorcerer to use his spell AND HIS FORCE WEAPON on the same turn!, for 5pts thats worth it) also since hes gonne be in one of the zerker squads 130
Troops:
9 zerkers, champ w/fist, 229
9 zerkers, champ w/fist, 229
Heavy:
5 havocs, 4 missle launchers (I give, these are better then meltas. and they can lay down blast templates on the gaunts) 155


With the loss of flamers, and a third fist, ive gained angrier marines, and 4 powerful weapons.
lets see what you guys think

 

[Hesky]

Your friend seems a bit of an ass I will be honest. Not allowing you to proxy a DP? I hope he has a nicely converted Tervigon he is using against you..

The missile launchers should do a good job of getting rid of the Tervigon over a couple of turns. If you can somehow take another squad of two you really will have his forces on the run before he causes you any kind of damage..

As soon as his Trygon gets near that lash prince sorcerer will be very handy. Just check his army list before you begin play.. If its a Trygon Prime dont let it get within 12" of your sorcerer or Shadow in the Warp is going to play hell with him. This means using that force weapon against the trygon will also be risky.. (All psychic tests are taken on 3d6 instead of two.)

If I were you I would do the following..

<Your sorcerer here as he is except lose the familiar> 125 Unfortunately the familiar does not allow the use of an extra psychic power per turn. Only allows you an extra option. ie a second psychic power

8 Berserkers, Skull Champ w/Fist 208 8 Should be sufficient here

6 CSM w/ Plasma 105 Just to fill the troop slot really but handy all the same but 5 bolters and a plasma gun is handy all the same especially on rapid fire

5 havocs, 4 missile launchers 155 I cant stress how easily these will win the game for you against this list

5 havocs, 4 missile launchers 155 As above

Right I play Tyranids and if I wanted to show you how to kill me in two turns I would do it like this..

Place both Havoc squads in cover.. The range of their launchers means that Tervigon isnt hiding from you and as its an MC it needs at least 50% cover to get its save. Have the berserkers nearby to counter charge anything that manages to get near you.. Also sit the smaller CSM squad in cover and rapid fire approaching gaunts.

8 Krak missiles might be enough to kill the Tervigon in one turn if you are lucky but if he manages to survive just finish it on turn 2. All the while keep the Trygon as far away as possible by lashing it as soon as it comes within 24" of your sorcerer.

With this 2 steps forward 1 step back routine the trygon will probably never reach you and if it does your missile launchers should be free of other tasks after the Tervigon takes his termagant brood with it.

This leaves you with just some zoanthropes which the zerkers and CSM should kill without too much trouble and which krak missiles will kill with instant death incidentally.

I wish you luck and despite my love for tyranids i hope in this case you give him a good hiding.

Also I apologise for my tone in my earlier reply, sometimes it frustrates me when good advice is turned aside without first considering its merit.

Good luck anyways BW. I look forward to hearing the result..

EDIT: If he makes the error of deepstriking his Trygon against your army and miraculously has anything left alive on the turn it arrives.. Lash it to within range of your zerkers/sorcerer then hit it with every krak missile launcher and plasma you have. If that doesnt kill it the charge from your zerkers will finish off those last few wounds

 

[Flame80010]

I apologize for my previous posts, I truely thought meltas would do the trick, but 18 angry zerkers and a sorcerer wrecking havoc, with 4 missle launchers behind them seems better off

dont worry about it man x3

but i agree with hesky your friend seems like an ass.... its a friendly game and he wont even let your proxy one thing?

IMHO if his army isnt fully painted and painted well tell him he cant use it ;3

also anything converted has to look exactly like one would look in real life (scaled of corse)

as for your list i like it, and heskys list so enjoy either one
use Herkys Tactics with either list and you should be in a good position to win

NOW GET OUT THERE AND COLLECT SOME TYRANID SKULLS FOR KHORNES THRONE!

 

[angelXD19]

actually a familiar only gives you another psychic ability. If you look at the first paragraph on the psychic powers it says you can only do one psychic power per turn unless your tzeentch. so there you free up five points

 

[BucketWalrus]

damn, I really did think a familiar allowed an extra power to be used ( It should be at least!)

I thought of taking two zerker squads because two squads is twice as angry as one!

but giving up one of the squads for ANOTHER 4 missile launchers just seems way to cheap but I guess its ok since he won't let me use a DP (I think hes scared of them, I just don't want to buy one until its plastic, which is soon I might add)

and rapidfire weapons aren't as cool for chaos marines, since rapidfire weapons dis-allow assaulting D:
Plus, im going to have to proxy another 4 launchers (I only OWN 4, 3 of them are converted marine ones!) Which i don't think he will allow

I'll manage something, I've always wanted to see 8 missiles fired at a MC and flooring it on turn 1, lets try it out.


And to finish off, you guys are dead on, my friend is quite the character. (being the ONLY person to play with within 300kilometers) Hes got 8 years of experience on me, and abuses EVERY little rule to his advantage (he had me fooled into thinking a tyrant's bonesword works just like the swarmlords swords, WHICH THEY DON'T)(or had me fooled into thinking his SINGLE set of scything talons allowed him reroll's ALL to hit (ONLY 1'S) and an extra attack NOT INCLUDING THE EXTRA ATTACK HE GETS FROM THE SWORD) (7 attacks instead of 6 hurts ALOT, also re-rolling all his 2's and 1's to hit instead of ONLY 1's)

And for some reason he got me to believe shadow of the warp made HIMSELF take psychic tests on 3d6 and take the lowest two (BULL.), AND make me take mine on 3d6 and choose the highest 2 (this is true if it was 12 inches.. HE THINKS ITS THE ENTIRE BOARD!)

The worst one that won him two games in a row was the lashwhip and bone-sword. He pretty much forced me to believe that EVERYONE in cc with him has I1, not just base-contact. AND he treated his bonesword as a full-fledged boneSABER (bone sword = if failed invuln, take a leadership, if failed = death (like a psychic test for force weapon rly) while boneSABER = MUST RE-ROLL PASSED INVULNERABLES, AND TAKE LEADERSHIPS FOR FAILED ONES (I lost so much to this)

He would challenge my sorcerer/lord and would say "if you refuse the challenge you lose" I would argue and he would make a fit over it. but i managed to get him to understand "WHY THE HELL WOULD AN EVIL GENIUS ACCEPT A CHALLENGE THAT HE WOULD LOSE, NUFF SAID"

The worst of it is, he gets pissed when I call him out on some of the shit he pulls, and some times hes right (in which he makes damn sure to let me know how he proved he was right) and some times hes wrong (In which he just gets worse)

Its up to the point where hes "retired" because I "whine to much" or "never play just for fun (yeah, getting owned by your cheese/cheating every game is SO MUCH FUN)" Now he refuses to play, and even talk. I guess hes realised I'm not the little noobie he can own all the time (i've begun to BEAT his lists now, and my chaos marines are getting better, this is actually because i've been reading these forums and finding out stuff he would have said otherwise as (he ALMOST had me thinking MC's get a 4+ cover because of a wall of gaunts was infront of it, actually it was IN A GAME, and I took out my brand new Big-Gray-Book and proved his ass wrong) That was some GOOOOD tyrannofex meat.


So I'm probebly not going to get that battle with him. and this list will go un-used (until I move to a more active community) and will go down as a "RAEP DEM BIG BEASTIES" list I thank you all for your help.

P.S
Lol not perfectly painted armies? I've barely painted mine because of the lack of interest (due to getting floored constantly, but Ive already finished painting my sorcerer, and priming the rest of my men!)