[MadCowCrazy]

I got the new WD today, feel free to ask any questions about anything you might be wondering about regarding it. Going to go through it now and see what's up

 

[SoulGazer]

I got the new WD today, feel free to ask any questions about anything you might be wondering about regarding it. Going to go through it now and see what's up

I've got a few:

Is there any indication of what sort of alliances will be possible apart from what's in the battle reports? (I need me some Blood Angel/Necron brofisting :laugh

Over on Dakka, someone said there was an example(probably in the battle reports, but the grammar was terrible so I can't be sure) of daemons causing Fear. If you can find that, can you tell if they actually get a new rule or is it just a fluff thing for the battle report?

Can you clarify Hull Points? Are vehicles wrecked once they lose them all or do you still have to destroy them via the normal damage chart after all the hull points are gone?

 

[Sethis]

You can play competetively without ignoring huge portions of the rules.

That depends on the rules and how they interact with each other. Competitive players dislike effects that are randomly generated and only affect one player (mysterious terrain), dislike auto-include options (at least 1 terrain piece) and dislike overpowered units or abilities that have no readily available counter (Hallucination). I also don't see many people appreciating 90% of their opponents being Imperial Guard players with Coteaz, DCA and Paladins (the whole point of having seperate army lists is that each army has strengths and weaknesses, taking allies largely negates this).

We hold the occasional Fantasy Tournament and the games are fun, close and the only rules we ignore involve the magic terrain. But that's just how the group at my FLGS rolls.

Fantasy is reasonably balanced, mainly because every army can take a level 4, so it comes down to luck who gets the most spells off before miscasting themselves to death. That is fair (but not really fun, to me) because everyone has a chance. Non-Psyker armies look to be a little screwed so far.

Cinematic could just be a push towards more exciting games that you'll be talking about for weeks to come. More exciting games that are closer between the players and require more tactics than just a reliance on uber units and more guns than everyone else.

Or it could mean ideas like "Hurh hurh hurh, let's make terrain that explodes and kills people, cos that sounds funny, hurh hurh" despite the fact that it hurts Eldar, Dark Eldar, Tau, Guard, Daemons, Orks and Sisters a lot more than it hurts Space Marines and is therefore inherently unfair. It could mean "Hurh hurh, let's force HQ units to fight each other in combats like a duel, hurh hurh" despite the fact that a lot of races have characters who do not want to be anywhere near another character (Farseers, Ethereals, Sang Priests, IG Officers et al).

Decisions like that *remove* tactical choice, not add to it, because now I can't strategically plan my assault move to deliberately avoid engaging that Power Klaw Warboss with my Librarian. I have to fight him and die (or refuse the challenge and presumably not fight and not be able to add my Ld to the unit I am in).

Whenever GW says "We're adding something to make the game more fun!!!" then I cringe a little bit inside, because I know it's going to be another gimmick that just destabilises the game more than it is already. And probably revolves around power armour.

Random charge lengths have an average of 7" which means that charges will be more commonly happening from a little further away than before, and more models can get in from further away when you're dealing with large units who have to go around something to make the charge. I'm not saying that there are going to be a lot of 12" charges but the chance of getting into combat from that far away will make people reconsider how they move and where they place things more carefully in the future.

The question is what was wrong with assault moves in the first place? As far as I can tell, nothing. Difficult and Dangerous Terrain was a pain in the ass, but apart from that, I didn't see a problem with a static 6". It meant I could gauge distances and make a binary decision - am I in, or am I not? Now that has been replaced with "Am I within 2-12"?" which is far less of a tactical decision. It's just guesswork. Even if you're within 4" of the enemy you can still fuck it up and die, just on the basis of a single failed dice roll. Your tactics were perfect, you'd played the best you could, but when it comes to rolling a single dice, you fluffed it. Tell me how that makes you feel good. In WFB it's not quite so important, because charging is just +1 Combat res and because effective firepower is rare (i.e. your 40 man unit is not going to die in a single round of shooting). Not so in 40k.

The ultra-serious tournament players might be a little upset, but when are they not upset? Honestly I see so many complaints from them in general whenever any changes are mentioned that I end up writing them off completely.

Really? From where I stand, it's the pitiful cries of "Cheese" and "That's so OP" that I have to block out when I table yet another person who thought 4 Tactical Squads and 3 Whirlwinds made a good army. I guess it's a matter of your point of view, isn't it? I'm not even an ultra-serious player. I just like games where the rules are balanced, make internal sense, and more or less everyone has an equal chance to win provided they don't make stupid choices in list design or tactics. I guess I'm a total nutjob. :scare:

 

[Alsojames]

So I just re-read the whole OP and I have to say....

STILL NO TAU CODEX?

Fuck it, I'm going back to my Guard.

 

[Eleven]

I got the new WD today, feel free to ask any questions about anything you might be wondering about regarding it. Going to go through it now and see what's up

I'm sure there is plenty more that you will need to tell us that we don't know. please feel free to clarify it all.

 

[Bindi Baji]

feel free to ask any questions about anything you might be wondering about regarding it.

Which armies can Squats ally with? :angel:

 

[MadCowCrazy]

Rulebook: £45, €60, 450dkr, 560skr, 560nkr, 450rmb, 225zl

Battlefield Objectives: The 12 six-sided Munitorum Battlefield Objectives are not dice, but rather a means of representing the location and significance of the myriad Primary and Secondary Mission Objectives used in the Eternal War scenarios. In addition, they can be used to denote the nature of a Mysterious Objective once revealed.

Vehicle Markers: The Munitorum Vehicle Markers are a quick and effective means of determining what damage a vehicle suffers when an attack has penetrated its armour, and serve as a visual reminder of any ongoing vehicle status effects. The set includes four AP 3 damage dice, two AP 2 Damage Dice, 2 AP 1 Damage Dice, two Hull Point counters and two Vehicle Status markers.

Psyhic Power Cards
Biomancy
Smite Range 12" - is a Witchfire
Iron Arm -something about Toughness
Enfeeble within 24" - suffers a -1, treats all terrain
Endurance within 24" - gains the Fe (Feel no Pain?), special rule
Life Leech Range 12" - If Life Leech, immediately, to his starting
Warp Speed - Attacks (Roll
6. Haemorrhage - Haemorrhage is a focussed witchfire power with a range of 12". The target must pass a Toughness test or suffer a Wound with no armour or cover save allowed. If the target is slain, randomly select another model (friend or foe) within 2" of him. That model must pass a Toughness test or suffer a Wound with no armour or cover saves allowed. If that model dies, continue the process until a model survives or there are no suitable targets within range.

Divination
Prescience - within 12, can reroll
Foreboding - this power is, Counter-attack, full Ballistic, this does not, Overwatch
Forewarning - within 12", a 4+ invulnerable
Endurance from Biomancy listed....
Perfect Timing - have the Ig
Precognition - Hit and To Wound
6. Scrier's Gaze - Scrier's Gaze is a blessing that targets the Psyker. Whilst the power is in effect, you can roll three dice and chose the result you want when rolling for Reserves, Outflank and mysterious terrain.

Pyromancy
Flame Breath - Template
Fiery Form - +2 strength, Blaze special
Fire Shield - within 24"
Inferno - Range 24"
4. Spontaneous Combustion
Sunburst - Range 6
6. Molten Beam - is a beam with the following profile Range 12" S8 AP1 Assault 1, Melta

Telekinesis
Assail - Range 18"
Crush - is a f, Roll 2D6, equal to the, automatically, automatic, of a separate
Gaze of Infinity - 24", Deep Strike
3. Objuration - a single enemy, rolls a 6, squadron)., with the H, for each).
Shockwave - Range 12"
Telekine Dome - within 12", invulnerable, power is in effect, AP equal
6. Vortex of Doom - is a witchfire power with the following profile: Range 12" S10 AP1 Heavy 1, Blast* If, when using this power, the Psyker fails his Psyhick test, centre the Vortex of Doom blast marker on the Psyker - in this case, the template does not scatter.

Telepathy
Psyhic Shriek - Roll 3D6, unit suffers, Armour and, caused by
Dominte - within 24", must pass a, shoot, Run, action is fo
Mental Fort(ification) - unit within, regroups
Puppet Master - of 24", as if it was, the Psyker, players control
Terrify - is a malediction, unit within, the Fearless, having the, Furthermore
Invisibility - within 24", Stealth special, gain no benefit, don't see it, Skill 1
6. Hallucination - is a malediction that targets a single enemy unit within 24". Roll immediately to determine the manner of hallucinations the target is suffering from (roll once for the whole unit).
D6 Result
1-2 Bugs! I Hate Bugs! Something unspeakable has gotten under the victims armour and has begun to crawl around. The unit is automatically Pinned, unless it would normally automatically pass Pinning tests or is locked in close combat, in which case there is no effect.
3-4 Ermmm? All sense of urgency is lost, and the befuddled warrior just stare listlessly into space. The unit cannot shoot, Run, declare charges or strike blows in close combat whilst the power is in effect.
5-6 You! You're a Traitor! Paranoia set in and the panicked warriors lash out at thei comrades. Every model in the unit immediately inflicts a single hit on his own unit, resolved at that model's own Strengths, but using the Strength bonuses, AP values and special rules of their most powerful close combat weapons (if they have any).

Dark Eldar Beastmaster and Beasts in finecast advance order from 14th July
Ork Special characters in finecast, adv order from 14th July
GK Brother Captain, Inquisitor with Power Sword and Bolt Pistol, Inquisitor with Inferno Pistol and Power Sword, adv order from 14th July

 

[Kreuger]

That depends, who else is in the Tyranids' tummy?

I'm with Sethis on this one. Randomness is never a good game dynamic. The less reliable the system the harder it is for gamers to undestand and predict how the models & armies interact.

 

[Zion]

So I just re-read the whole OP and I have to say....

STILL NO TAU CODEX?

Fuck it, I'm going back to my Guard.

If you're looking for Tau rumors your in the wrong thread to start with. This is a thread for the 6th Edition rumors, not what armies are coming out soon. Additionally all the Tau rumors that were floating around came primarily from 1 person who has since owned up about making things up to get attention. So I really don't know what you came in here looking for since Tau rumors would be in their own thread anyways.

I got the new WD today, feel free to ask any questions about anything you might be wondering about regarding it. Going to go through it now and see what's up

If we start getting confirmations from you on the new rules and things I'll be glad to change the 1st post into a list of what we know is coming vs the list we have now of what we think is coming.

@Sethis - I'm not going to quote you're entire post because there is a lot there but I'll hit up everything briefly:

You're right, it does come down to how the rules interact, but even when they work someone will still be disatisfied and add their own additional tweaks and changes anyways. This is how we got various types of Comp floating around and why people rage-quit everytime a new codex comes out.

Dwarves don't take Level 4s, they instead work to shut down your magic phase and keep your spells from working correctly. They also have items that stop things from happening (Dispell Scroll, Certain Banners, Cube of Darkness (dispells the spell AND ends the magic phase on a 4+!) and Hellheart (enemy wizards in range suffer a miscast!), not to mention the magic phase can severely punish the casters too. I'm hoping for Perils of the Warp to become more punishing to psykers to balance out these stronger powers. At least we didn't get a bunch of "characteristic test or die for everything under the template" powers added to the game.

You're right, cinematic could end up being a poorly written action movie set in a universe where everything explodes, but we can ignore rules like that if needbe. And challenges could screw over non-CC characters (though without full rules we'll have to wait to call that one), but until I see the book I'm not putting any nails into any coffins.

I wouldn't say all decisisions revolve around power armor. At least not at the Dev level. They plan things they think that are fun, try them out and if they are reasonably fun they keep the rules. On the otherhand I'm sure there are things implemented (Carnifex nerf for example) that come from management levels where their concern isn't fun but how to make more money.

Static 6" isn't bad, and yes you may be able to screw yourself (unless your Jump Infantry apparently. All I know is I hope Beasts get 3D6 for their charge range since everyone will be looking at being able to charge up to 12"), but it also means the shooty units don't get the certinity that they have now. If I know how far you can move and charge for a fact I can make sure I only move when I absolutely HAVE to and instead use my static position to rain more steely death on you (as is often the case with many tanks, and units with Bolters). I think the intent wasn't to nerf assaults but to make it so the shooty units had to be more active in the game.

People still take Whirlwinds? I mean I like the model fine, but in 5th edition it just doesn't work as well as other options that exist. Then again this may have more to do with the fact that 5th edition benefited Tin Cans more than Foot Sloggers.

TL;DR: I'm giving 6th edition the benefit of the doubt until I can actually play it.

 

[Sethis]

Telepathy
1. Psyhic Shriek - Roll 3D6, unit suffers, Armour and, caused by
2. Dominte - within 24", must pass a, shoot, Run, action is fo
3. Mental Fort(ification) - unit within, regroups
4. Puppet Master - of 24", as if it was, the Psyker, players control
5. Terrify - is a malediction, unit within, the Fearless, having the, Furthermore
6. Invisibility - within 24", Stealth special, gain no benefit, don't see it, Skill 1

This is SPECULATION

Talk about the go-to Lore...

1. 3D6 hits with no armour/cover saves? Fail Ld test that was rolled on 3D6? 3D6 S1 hits?
2. Must pass a Ld test every time they want to Move, Shoot, Run/Assault?
3. Unit auto-regroups.
4. Gain control of target unit
5. Ld test or run away? Ld test or WS1? Who knows.
6. Stealth USR - Possibly been changed to "roll to see it with night fighting rules, if you can't see it then you shoot at BS1"?

And the silly Hallucination one. And the kicker? They're all 24" range. Apart from Shriek, because a power with a name like that doesn't sound like it'll have a big range.

Again, all worst-case speculation.

 

[Zion]

Hey MadCowCrazy, anything on hull points or weapons having AP values, or what AP values do to armor pen rolls?

 

[MadCowCrazy]

There is Only WAR!

...has sat decaying upon his Golden Throne, a sad relection of his once-glorious empire. Now the carcass of the Imperium is ready to fall, picked apart as ancient enemies stir and aliens threaten its borders, even as apostates and heretics undermine it from within.

Forging a Narrative
In 40k there's nothing more important than being able to tell a story as you play, or as we've called it in the rulebook, Forging a Narrative. With that in mind, there are a number of rules to accommodate how individual models can make a difference to the battle without bogging the game down. Some of these rules are quite subtle, such as characters being able to pick out individual targets; others are more obvious and integral to the game, like challenging your opponent to a duel.

Have you ever imagined how cool it would be to bring down a Monstrous Creature by throwing a krak grenade into its mouth? Well, you can! Have you ever wanted your army's commander to call out a rival and engage him in a duel to the death so that you may settle a grudge from a previous encounter? You can do that too!
There are a number of special rules that have been included entirely for the cinematic imagery that they bring to the tabletop.
The Hammer of Wrath special rule, for example, allows jump units to leap into combat and crush their foes beneath their armoured bulk as they hurtle down from above.
Similarly, Flying Monstrous Creatures can deliver a deadly Vector Strike as they swoop over their enemies, tearing heads from shoulders with taloned limbs as they do so.
Even a unit's desperate actions as charging enemies bear down on them is represented by the ability to make an Overwatch attack - a free round of shooting, but at Ballistic Skill 1.

Allies & Fortifications
We expanded the Force Organistation Chart to allow players to represent just such a situation on the battlefield, featuring the option to include an allied detachment as part of your standard army. Not wishing to stop there, we also included a choice of fortifications that enable players to reinforce their deployment zones with defensive emplacements, ranging from a linked section of Aegis defence lines to the mighty Fortress of Redemption.

Skyshield Landing Pads can be positioned to coordinate the arrival of your reinforcement with utmost accuracy. Many fortifications can be further augmented with a comms relay or turret-mounted anti-aircraft weapons.

Each army is led by a Warlord - a powerful, charismatic leader that represents you on the battlefield. Before every game, your Warlord makes a roll on one of the Warlord Trait tables - Command, Personal and Strategic Traits.

Some scenery types are therefore Mysterious Terrain, only revealed as flesh-searing fireblood rivers or forests of overgrown spinethorn when a unit enters its area of effect.
The Battles section of the rulebook also includes a Warzone Traits table, introducing optional rules for fighting in unusual or abnormal environments. Change things up by fighting on a high or lower-gravity battlefield or, if you're feeling particularly brave, try waging war as your forces are assailed by a planet's corrosive atmosphere or toxic mist.

There are six Eternal War scenarios, each with its own mission objectives to achieve. In many of the scenarios there are a number of objectives to contest. Some of these may house useful technology such as a targeting relay or grav wave generator, but it's also possible for an objective to have been sabotaged with proximity mines.

Under normal corcumstances, only Troops units can control objectives, but in the Big Guns Never Tire mission, for example, your Heavy Support units can capture them too, even if they are vehicles!

In each scenario, players can also attempt to complete any of the three Secondary Objectives too:
Slay the Warlord, by killing the commander of the enemy army
First Blood, by being the first to destroy an enemy unit
Linebreaker, by storming the enemy's deployment zone.

Hobbyists are introduced to a series of unique scenarios that also serve to encourage and inspire players to generate their own campaign and mission ideas.

At the rear of the rulebook lies the Appendices section, replete with handy reference sheets that include the statistics for every weapon and unit in the game (including every vehicle's Hull Points).
The Appendices also feature thirty new powers from five psyhic disciplines that Psykers can choose to generate their power from. (Is this a typo? The psyhic power cards have 34 different powers listed, 35 being the most likely as a Biomancy power was listed twice).

Having a Blast
That it's the guy in the front of your squad who always takes the first bullet is not only very cinematic, but makes you think a lot more about every move you make. I also love the fact that units are reduced to Ballistic Skill 1 when resolving Overwatch.
But ultimately, there's nothing quite as satisfying for me as yelling 'Grenade!' as your heroic Sergeant tosses a frag grenade and blasts your opponents favourite squad to smithereenes!



I'm going through the WD page by page and posting things of interest as I come across them. Will take a while but will cover everything in the WD once it's complete.

 

[Doelago]

I got the new WD today, feel free to ask any questions about anything you might be wondering about regarding it. Going to go through it now and see what's up

Fucking. And THIS months has not yet arrived over here. :headbutt:

 

[Zion]

Fucking. And THIS months has not yet arrived over here. :headbutt:

Technically you aren't supposed to have it yet anyways. I just think MadCowCrazy probably has a friend who likes to give him copies a little early.

EDIT: I've turned the first post into a compilation of the stuff we know for sure from the WD so it doesn't get lost in the clutter of all the unconfirmed rumors (about half of which were just repeating each other to be honest).

 

[Doelago]

Technically you aren't supposed to have it yet anyways. I just think MadCowCrazy probably has a friend who likes to give him copies a little early.

By this months I meant the one with fliers in it. I will most probably not have the one MadCowCrazy has by this time next month either. :laugh: (/ :cray

 

[Zion]

By this months I meant the one with fliers in it. I will most probably not have the one MadCowCrazy has by this time next month either. :laugh: (/ :cray

Have you called to GW to complain yet? One of my issues didn't arrive at all one month and they sent me a replacement issue at no cost. But yeah, the unpredictable nature of when the WD will arrive (or IF it'll arrive) is why I didn't renew my subscription and just buy them from my FLGS now instead.

 

[Doelago]

Have you called to GW to complain yet? One of my issues didn't arrive at all one month and they sent me a replacement issue at no cost. But yeah, the unpredictable nature of when the WD will arrive (or IF it'll arrive) is why I didn't renew my subscription and just buy them from my FLGS now instead.

I am not a subscriber, they just have not yet arrived at my super market. There have been those months when they arrive a month late, other times they arrive shit stupid early.

 

[Zion]

I am not a subscriber, they just have not yet arrived at my super market. There have been those months when they arrive a month late, other times they arrive shit stupid early.

Ah. Not much you can do about that then.

 

[MadCowCrazy]

Dreadnoughts 3 Hull points

Jump packs re-roll the 2D6" charge distance in the Assault phase.
Rage gives +2 attacks on charge (seems Rage isn't renamed)

In the Chaos Daemons army everything causes Fear, which is nicely representative of their horror. But thats not nearly as exciting as the Flying Monstrous Creature rules. These allow my Bloodthrister and Daemon Princes to soar up to 24" across the tabletop, ignoring all but the most dedicated anti-aircraft weapons as they get ready to assault the puny mortals below.

Soul Grinder and Land Raiders have 4 Hull Points

Bikes and Landspeeders have Jink, gives them a 5+cover save and 4+ if they Turbo-boost or move Flat Out.


Foreboding: Allows the affected squad to fire at an assaulting unit at their full Ballistic Skill rather than BS1.


In addition, his psyhic hood will usually augment any rolls to Deny the Witch within 6" to a 4+ making hime awesome at countering any enemy psychic powers.

About Terminators...
anything short of a power fist or power axe just won't cut it in combat, meaning they'll benefit from their 2+ armour save most of the time.
GK Terminators are equipped with frag and krak grenades, meaning they can throw one during the Shooting phase.

About IG squad...
Perhaps the coolest part of the rules is that every man counts, as they can all move and fire (even the lascannon!), and can even make a valiant last stand when they're charged, overwatching with their lasguns at the incoming foe.

Saying that, I'm told that the Deathmarks are quite nasty, as snipers can select targets if they roll a 6 To Hit!

Necron Warriors have always been implacable on the advance, but as they're now able to rapid fire at long range as they move this is doubly true.

Ghost Arks have 4 hull points, Gauss takes off a Hull Point for every 6 rolled to penetrate.

Example of Land Raider shooting 4 weapons (it can fire one flamestorm cannon normally, another using its machine-spirit and then snap fire both the assault cannon and the multi-melta). Doesn't say anything about snap fire BS.

Tau Fire Warrior example. not only can they move and still rapid fire up to 30" away, making them higly mobile as the background suggests, but they can Overwatch these S5 guns if they're charged.
My Battlesuit is great as well - he provies nigh-on impossible to engage, as can scoot up to 2D6" way with his jetpack in the Assault phase.

MC are AP2, can halve attacks and perform Smash at double Strength.

 

[GrizBe]

Am I reading right.. Necron Warriors can rapid fire at long range, as they move?? Sweet.... Snipers can pick out their targets? Double sweet.

Only things i'm not liking so far is the allies and the 'fortification' foc slot... that sounds far too open to cheese in my opinion. That and the 'mysterious terrain'.... can anyone honestly say they play with those rules in fantasy?