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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Just came across the info on Bell of Lost Souls (gotta love those guys :wink:);

The news

In addition a mate of mine might get some new info from another reliable source, so I may have so more news in a few days!

All in all I thing most of this is great, sure having to buy a new rulebook might be a waste of time, but that new startset should be might interesting. And the news of Dark Eldar finally getting some much deserved attention and a full new miniature line is ace! Now lets just hope that this does not mean that the Apocalypse armybook will need an update as well, paying twice for it would be insane.

And plastic Krieg and Valhallan troopers :eek:k: I'd start an IG army just for that alone and the news that the doctrines have a good chance of surviving is great as well. And judging from the (suprising) depth and complexity of the new Ork codex I think this is indeed quite possible....still a shame fior the Chaos boys, hopefully that daemon book thingy will make up for it.
 

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A lot of its sounds good, though I do have a few worries.

The proposed changes to Skimmers will make too big of an impact. Not only will Falcons be affected, but also DE Raiders, and Tau vehicles as well. This change might totally imbalance these armies toward the negative.

Also, the FNP reduced to fail against AP1 weapons as was mentioned would be a very very bad thing if Necron Gauss weapons would have the adjusted Rending. That would mean that Necrons, at a lower price, have all of the benefits and none of the drawbacks of Plague Marines. Not a very good idea.

Still, I'm open minded and awaiting further info.
 

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Necrons really need to be redone from the ground up anyway - unfortunately that doesn't seem likely to happen for awhile.

A unified Apocalypse style damage chart would be a good thing.
 

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I like a lot of the rules so for.

Except the Skimmer rule. That is TOO much. Skimmers are already easy enough to kill. 1 out of 3 chance to destroy it on a glancing chart if it move far enough, otherwise 1 out of 2 when they take penetrating hits.

Plus making it that they only get the 'concealment' if they move the full 12"? That can easily force a player to move into a position right in front of the enemy because they are cornered or something. This would mean More Gun Fire at the skimmer that it may not even be able to get the glancing effect that it moved for in the first place.

If they do this the SM Land Speeder would be pointless for the amount of points they cost now. Armor 10 is Not a tough nut to crack.
 

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Rending: A roll of a six to wound makes the shot AP1. A roll of a six to penetrate a vehicle causes an automatic glancing hit unless the total already exceeds the AV.
Man this will, if the case, be hallelujah!

The forced march idea also sounds interesting.
 

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seriously, no one should complain about that skimmer rule, It's totally fair, because Tanks have a 1 in 3 chance of also being destroyed if they move 12 inches or more, and oh wait, that means they didn't get to fire their guns. and if you moved 6 inches to get into cover and are now concealed thats only a 50% chance to downgrade and you risk immobilizing or destroying your tank when you do, and lastly smokes also stop you from firing your guns.if skimmers aren't broken, then tanks are. Tanks are way too fragile compared to skimmers.

a skimmer moving 12 inches now makes it more likely to get in a position to expose itself the lease, so being forced to move it 12 to get that benefit is better for the rare instances that it won't help, tanks usually have to completely expose themselves if they want to get a shot at a skimmer, because the skimmers can easily move themselves out of the tanks LOS
 

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Keep in mind that AV12 is designed to compensate for the 'always glancing' rule. If not for that, then all armies that do not have AV14 are at a distinct disadvantage. Eldar do not have anything worthy of the role of Main Battle Tank wouthout that rule. Quite simply, Eldar vehicles will stop selling if they have virtually no worth in-game.

You have stated the truth. Tanks (not skimmers) need the upgrade. When a Land Raider is a worse investment than any other tank in the game, there are problems. Land Raiders (like those in the Chaos 'Dex) need a fairly sharp decrease in points. Rhinos have received the same treatment in the newer' dexes. Skimmers, on the other hand, have actually increased slightly in points, and have been given newer gear, that while fits in wonderfully with the theme and abilitites of the skimmers, increases the cost substantially. GW is moving in the right direction already. But, if the rules rumors are true, then they have done what happens all too often. They may be targetting something that does not need to be fixed in order to bring it in line with the 'broken' rules.
 

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Porn King!!!
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Snagged this from Warseer:

OK, I'm going to post these other rumours appeared on GW Tilea: the source is trustworthy.


- First of all, WH40K V Edition will see the light before summer 2008 (yes you read it right), just after the Codexaemons.
There's not much in the new edition that is going to be radically changed, the things which will be modified for sure are:

1) rules about vehicles
2) damage chart for vehicles (MAYBE we'll have one only chart for glancing and penetrating hits, with modifiers according to the weapon which scored the hit - note that this is an uncertain rumour)
3) rules about psychic powers
4) small variations on hth combat

the source denied any further explaination.

It has been speculated that the new Starter Box will include SM and Orks (both in plastic).


**********


And THEN?

- Codex: Imperial Guard.
New miniatures are ready, the Codex is still undergoing the brainstorming phase
It is almost certain that the Combat Doctrines will remain in the Codex.
New plastic soldiers with great coats and different heads: we'll have Death Korps of Krieg and Valhallans!!!
Possible new Valkyrie in plastic.
New bits for the Sentinel in order to be able to field all of the four patterns in plastic!
New bits for Rough Riders.


- Dark Eldar.
The entire range is going to be redone with new design.
At the moment they're going to made the first new models!
The rules (according to the source) are NOT going to be much changed, except for some units (the source didn't specify which ones).


- Necrons
We won't see them before the end of 2009!!!
However, the Codex will be redone and will feature new models.
Pariah and Immortals are going to be redone.
Maybe new bipod/vehicle?


- Space Wolves
end 2008 - beginning 2009
The Codex has been planned, but nothing is certain.
MAYBE (uncertain rumour) the SW list will be integrated with the 13th Company's units and rules.


Unfortunately, the Codex:Inquisition is still not in schedule We won't see it for a veeeeery long time...


I'd like to thank theJUDGE at GW Tilea's forum for having provided the rumours.
Sorry for the lame English!
 

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Porn King!!!
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Quoted for the lazy :D

UPDATE: And this tasty tidbit from the pretty much 100% accurate Brimstone from Warseer:

"Some of this is correct and some is a bit inaccurate.

Vehicle rules are undergoing a pretty big overhaul which some will be quite unhappy about.
There will be one vehicle damage chart with modifiers for glancing/penetrating hits.

Overall most sections are being amended to a degree up to and including missions.

It's a new edition hence a new rulebook IIRC."

UPDATE (2): More word from Warseer's reliable sources:

Things I've heard about 5th edition:

It will be released in 2008. I’ve been hinting at this in
these forums for months now…I was told September/October, but maybe they are
pushing it up for some reason. Maybe they are launching the new edition before
they release the next supplement. Could have something to with the rules changes
that they need the new system out before the next supplement.

The new starter box will be Orks vs. Marines. Like BfSP it will have two small but complete
armies. The new technology lets them put so much more stuff on a sprue and I've
heard you get TONS of stuff in this box. I expect a vehicle or two (those rumors
of a plastic killa kan have been floating around for some time) but I have no
info to say what the contents will be beyond Orks vs. Marines (What do you think
they are making those plastic grots for?). As an Ork player I am so very excited
about this box…

Rules wise I’ve heard that the vehicle damage chart will look
like the Apocalypse one but for standard vehicles.

I’ve heard nothing of a nerf for skimmers or any other major
changes to the vehicle system. But that just means my source hasn’t told me
anything or may not know himself.

Two big changes I’ve heard about are changes to movement and
(everyone wait for it…) changes to Rending! I posted these in a “rules idea”
thread a few weeks back to see if anyone would notice…nobody did. I'm not going
to go into detail now as I've been tourtured by the =I=nqusition before and do
not wish to revist those dark places. But if you search for them, they are out
there...posted as my own idea. (see how I do that? Like a f'n ninja!)I’ve heard
that Combat Patrol and Kill Team are gone from the rule book. They will make a
reappearance as their own supplement in 2009 with expanded rules for "space
hulk" and "Necromunda" style games.They have been replaced with a much expanded
mission system and campaign rules that are based off the Mighty Empires system
for FB.

I've heard that there are a few 40K specific tiles in the works. One
being a hive-city tile.

Dark Eldar are next after Deamons, beyond that I have no
clue.

UPDATE (3): a warseer source offers a glimpse at what may be some of the rumored 5th edition rules changes:

Rending: A roll of a six to wound makes the shot AP1. A roll of a six to penetrate a vehicle causes an automatic glancing hit unless the total already exceeds the AV.
-I think this will tone down Rending a bit while still maintaining the
effectiveness of those weapons. This would also pave the way for all Gauss
weapons to have Rending.On that note I would also change FNP so it is negated by AP1 weapons.

Forced March: All infantry units may make a D6” move in the shooting phase instead of shooting as long as there are no enemy models within 12”. However they may not move in the assault phase unless they have the Fleet of Foot special rule. Models with Fleet may make this move even if enemy models are within 12” and may make a 6” assault move as normal.
-I think this would open up the game a little more as it would allow
units to sprint for cover/objectives in lieu of shooting. It would make the game
a bit more dynamic and allow for playing games on larger tables like you might
see in Apocalypse. This would also greatly benefit reserves allowing them to get
in the game much quicker than before.

Skimmers: Change the Skimmer rule so it counts as being obscured when moving at least 12” instead of the current rule.
-This would mean they would only benefit from the Skimmer ability on a
4+ and only if they stay on the move.
 

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Keep in mind that AV12 is designed to compensate for the 'always glancing' rule. If not for that, then all armies that do not have AV14 are at a distinct disadvantage. Eldar do not have anything worthy of the role of Main Battle Tank wouthout that rule. Quite simply, Eldar vehicles will stop selling if they have virtually no worth in-game.
armor value 12 does not make up for it, the proof is AV 13 tau skimmers. I feel the pain moreso than other armies because I play an army that is more assaulty than others (Black Templars) and having the only things in my army that can take a skimmer out be mounted on the back of a glass tank is pretty bad.
I almost exclusively play against tau and eldar, and It annoys the crap out of me that my AP1 weapons don't work nor can I smack them with a powerfist. against a skimmer Meltaguns are pretty much a joke with one in the squad. and when I go up against the Eldar I always feel like I am getting the short end of the stick. (Firedragons in waveserpant anyone) BT's lack of devsquads means that My heavyweapons suck. and compared to the eldar, the BT's suck in melee.

sorry, this post has turned into an Eldar rant.
 

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am i the only one who likes the cadians best?
 

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Jac "Baneblade" O'Bite
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Don't get me wrong I love the Cadians - but my I'm planning on my making my DH force up of Inducted Guard from different regiments. So the more Regiments available (that actually look decent) the happier I am.
 

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Keep in mind that all armies are not created equal. If you play Black Templars, then you have to accept the fact that very mobile vehicular armies are gonna give you fits. But then again, infantry armies, and those with fewer vehicles are gonna be puddy in your powerfists. Black Templars are supposed to have trouble with Skimmer armies, just like Skimmer armies are supposed to have trouble with shooty hordes like my IG. My IG have never lost to Eldar or Tau while under my command. I just pack way to many weapons capable of taking them down. It's the role I chose for the army, knowing that this is what the IG are most capable of doing. I don't complain when 2 LRC's hit my lines and 30 Templars scream their fury while attacking my lines. That is the big weakness of an immobile gunline army, and I accept it without complaint.

If the rumors hold true (and I do doubt that they all will), the Eldar will have virtually NO glaring strengths, and too many weaknesses to exploit, kinda like the current Dark Eldar. The proposed new rule would make Eldar vehicles basically 'move or shoot' heavy weapon platforms, and while this is 'OK' for Serpents, the Falcons and Prisms would be hit too hard, especially the Prisms. Tau vehicles could not even qualify for the 'glancing only on a 4+' rule, though they'd still go down in flames on a 5 or 6, rather than just a 6 like an imperial main battle tank with the same AV. At this point, where really, is the benefit of being a Skimmer?
 

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I wouldn't take too much of this seriously. If this is really slated for late 2008, and I think that's a little early, then between now and then any number of things can and will change. The only thing I'd expect to see stick around for sure is the Rending rule fix, since that's a simple and effective change that solves an extant problem without creating others.
 

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I really hope new IG plastics isn't just a rumor. I also hope that they come out with Plastic Cadian Roughriders. They really need them, even though if you play a true Cadian Armylist you don't have access to them.

I am really stoked for the Valhallans, it is going to save me time and money from having to convert Bretonnian Men-at-Arms into soldiers, plus, I have an entire bottle of Woodland Scenics Snow sitting around not being used. I was going to make Ice Warrior Kroot Mercenaries but the World of Men is much cooler.

Finally, I hope they make a Heavy Stubber Team available, they look way cooler than Heavy Bolter Teams.
 

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Ooooh rumours! I agree with Quiet Earth. I want more plastic IGs. I'd be very annoyed if they dropped the doctrines though. That would seriously suck!
 
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