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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I have played enough large scale apocalypse to have a good idea of how armies above 10k work - but has anyone played much of the 5k game?

Did it work well for you?
How long did it take (assuming 1v1 players)?
What size board were you using?

I am asking this as I am planning to start 5k apocalypse games at our games club and don't want endless unfinished or poor games. 5k seems enough to get the apocalypse feel but without the chance of massive overrun tables where games bog down.

In these games has anyone found a good superheavy limit? we are proposing two otherwise it will be dominated by whoever gets the most into a list (as superheavies have different points scaling). Also does anyone have any views on limiting the two to both being different?
 

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The main factor to how well an Apocalypse game goes time-wise (and in general) is how well the players know their armies AND rules; The game can really bog down if one or more players constantly have to reference the Datasheets or Superheavy damage tables. I suggest asking any and all players to make sure thay have copies of their datasheets on hand, and you should run off a few copies of the Superheavy damage tables and results to have ready for the inevitable damage. My learned Eldar opponent and I can do a 5k in an afternoon (Starting at noon), BUT our Tau player doesn't get a chance to play as much, so at best we might be able to get in a 3k-4k battle in an afternoon.

As for a limit, 2-3 per side usually works well, but don't force people to actually take a superheavy- There are a few armies that seem to do even better without the huge pointsinks.

Boardsize? Oddly enough, even the standard 6' by 4' can work well, but I'd suggest 4' by 8', as most armies will need the extra deployment area.

You might also want to flesh out some house rules on Strategems/Assets, as some can be quite painful in larger Apocalypse games (My aforementionned Eldar player ALWAYS puts Reinforcements on his Phantom titan... ouch). Play a few games with the group and see what works best for them, as all players are different...
 

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Ok, i have been in many many Apoc battles and there seem to be a general trend of the problems faced throughout the game,

1. Too many players: this a major factor of why games go bad, too many players on a side causes a loss in attention to the game and will create other problems futher along the line.

2. Lack of general rule knowledge: some players may not know the rules for their army or the general rules for the game, this becomes a problem when there is other things going on around and a time limit for that stage,(shooting/combat)

3. Points limit: When planing an Apoc game, point limits are a very important aspect of a fun and exciting game. Depending how many players will be on each side is a must to know when deciding point limits, the more players on each side, the less points each player should be able to field and vise versa.

Each side should have both new and vet players, a side of vets against a side of newer players is too one sided and is not fun for anyone(unless your a douche and find it amusing to pride yourself in praying off of newer players). As for assets its up too you, in my games i find that 2 assets per side is fair.

And for point and player limit, it seems 2-3 players on each side and 1500-2000 points a piece is also a good amount for a good Apoc game, also one other thing the number of tables should be large enough for breathing room but small enough so not many open spaces are about.

AND REMEMBER, ITS ABOUT FUN. -raven925
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
I don't think you both got the angle I was coming from here, I have played numerous apocalypse games so know about the general pitfalls. I was more after an idea of how it works scaled down.

We have played many 10k-15k a side games and I was trying to get an idea of whether 5k limits would have the same game atmosphere or not.

@Deneris - sounds like an afternoon will be all we would need too, did you complete the whole 5 turns in that time or have you usually called a moral victory by that point?

We tried my 8x4 board and ended up very cramped, our new venue has potential for much larger tables for our bigger games (but thats the 10k+), what kind of size have the 5k games you have played been on? I would guess an 8x4 would be fine for these.

Ouch at the titan, I never thought of using it that way (then again I only just got the littler revenant and with a sunstorm people tended to just leave one alive and I had to ram it to death)

@raven925 - we regularly (nearly every week) end up playing the 2-3 players at sub 2k each and tbh they are the least fun games I get involved in, I would say adding apocalypse rules to this would just cheese the game to death, however - what have you found in these apocalypse games? I presume at this point level you restrict superheavies?
 

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you could always try making say 7x5 as it still gioves you 24" deployment zone with a
12" dead man's zone already there I use a 5x5 board for my games now as it gives an easily marked 4X4 with area to place reserved models when needed. I would try experimenting with board styles as long as in apoc you have long board edge to do pitched style battle and the 7x5 gives you more than an 8x4 3 feet of extra space in a game of inches is actually alot especially when ste-up and deployment is involved
 

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Discussion Starter #6
We have modular 4x2 boards at the moment, I havent tried it out yet but in theory we can get 8x6 using the parts we have, the only reason we are avoiding it though is our games club venue is only available to us for 6 hours, otherwise its my flat at we can only fit 8x4 there. 5k games taking 6 hours would be ideal, but we have to work out whats the best house restrictions to get them playing that fast.
 

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@Deneris - sounds like an afternoon will be all we would need too, did you complete the whole 5 turns in that time or have you usually called a moral victory by that point?

We tried my 8x4 board and ended up very cramped, our new venue has potential for much larger tables for our bigger games (but thats the 10k+), what kind of size have the 5k games you have played been on? I would guess an 8x4 would be fine for these.

Ouch at the titan, I never thought of using it that way (then again I only just got the littler revenant and with a sunstorm people tended to just leave one alive and I had to ram it to death)
5+ turns and/or the moral victory. We've even managed to get TWO 3k games in in one 5 hour period.

The FLGS Apocalypse battles are run on a 7' by 12' table, but that's usually 6-7k a side. Those games usually go from 10am to 4pm, and we get the full number of turns in...

Let's just say we HATES that Phantom titan, yes we do... Especially now that Nids aren't immune to instant death... :p
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Awesome information, that makes me confident that we should try it.

I will get on to our players and get them sorting out some 5k lists.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Well the 3k Apocalypse went interestingly, I fielded my revenant and a sunstorm squadron, My opponent was Necrons with a pylon and doomsday phalanx.

First turn the titan rips the doomsday monolith a new one, the sunstorm lay down fire killing loads of warriors.

Necron turn 1, necrons + lord teleport and use a strategem to take control of one of the titans pulsars for a turn, they kill one fire prism from the sunstorm, the glancing hits then remove one pulsar.
Most other necrons did very little.

My turn 2, the titan kills the lord and all of its 20 necron squad.
Sunstorm pops another monolith and my vyper squadrons start mopping up necron squads.

Necron turn 2, one of my falcons takes a hit and looses its guns, pylon fails to damage the titan, other necrons advance - but previous turns Nightspinner hits cause slow advance and a few casualties.

My turn 3, the Phoenix turns up and wrecks some bigger necrons (cant recall if they were imortals or pariahs), vypers kill more necrons, sunstorm lays into even more and the titan strips 1 shot off of the pylon. End of the turn the necrons fail to get back up to numbers and phase out.

Was good fun, I would recomend low points apocalypse to people as it gets some silly units onto the table, the big problem we had was necrons phase out rules and the early death of the doomsday monolith - it really should be a "counts as" superheavy
 

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At my store we did a 5k apoc with ten people, each with 1000pts. we teamed imperial armies vs non imperials(5 players per side). We played on a huge 6x16 table divided diagonally in half, where each team deployed in one half at least 12 inches from the dividing line. That was one of the best games I ever played. It took about 6 hours including setup, but we had 10 players (that probably just made things more complicated).
 

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It takes about an afternoon for me and my friend to finish a 5K game.

At apoc games i have at the moment consist of three teams. Player 1 and 2, player 3 and 4. then me. Its rather funny but whatever.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
At my store we did a 5k apoc with ten people, each with 1000pts. we teamed imperial armies vs non imperials(5 players per side). We played on a huge 6x16 table divided diagonally in half, where each team deployed in one half at least 12 inches from the dividing line. That was one of the best games I ever played. It took about 6 hours including setup, but we had 10 players (that probably just made things more complicated).
Ive found in the past that although "apocalypse" games where peopel each combine smaller armies is fun, it simply doesn't match up to larger forces (either on their own or built by one player) these tend to have some kind of consistency and allow for the huge formations - some of which come close to 1k points.
 

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Ive found in the past that although "apocalypse" games where peopel each combine smaller armies is fun, it simply doesn't match up to larger forces (either on their own or built by one player) these tend to have some kind of consistency and allow for the huge formations - some of which come close to 1k points.
Generally speaking this is how I've found it as well, as large collections (like mine) are been built with a theme in mind, so there is a 'built-in' cohesiveness to the list.

I'm lucky in the fact that there are at least a dozen guys in my area who all have large collections at hand, so it's easy to bring an Apoc game together.
 

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Every year one of the gaming clubs in our area run a 5k apoc tournement 4 games over 2 days. Its usualy split into singles/groups. Mixed armys can be quite cohesive, one of the best teams last year was a demon/dark eldar combo with no superheavys.

Were people planning teams and army lists before hand or were they being cobbled together on the spot?

I dont think a superheavy limit is required. My force with two superheavys (revanant and scorpion) beat a IG force with 4 superheavys, and was beaten by the demon/dark eldar combo. Even the warlord titan was taken down.

5k apoc is a lot of fun
 
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