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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Working on starting up my IG army, i already have a 1750pt army in mind, but for starters i really want to work on crafting a small 500pt army for playing. the guys i know pack alot of stupid MC and high value targets that i'm looking to Abuse roughly (IE: Daemon Prince, Land Raider, Hive Tyrant/Tyranid Prime)

When i organized the points, i decided i wanted to give the IG something similar, of course there's no real way to have an incredbily stupid powerful unit in IG.. but there is Yarrick, and Yarrick can still be fielded in a 500pt battle. so here Goes.

HQ-

Commissar Yarrick

Troops

PCS - 3 Meltaguns, Chimera w/HF and HB

either 2x 20 Infantry Squads or 20 Infantry and a 5 man squad of Storm Troopers

The concept i'm going for is the IG's greatest principle of Fire for Effect, yeah they're not the best infantry in the game, but 40 shots at 24" and 60 at 12" Per squad will make an absolute mess of a massive enemy like say a Daemon Prince. above the massive shooty, the Chimera will be instrumental at guarding Commissar Yarrick and the PCS while still delivering orders and firing close range Melta shots with AP1 and unsuspecting enemy units (Say a Land Raider? >:). ) Finally although Yarrick isn't a Beast of a man, he IS Eternal Warrior, a Zombie, and has a nasty invulnerability to death, his Str 6 Fist attack, while although slow, still gets 3 shots (4 if assaulting).

My question is, if all of this is a decent pick, should i go with 2 squads of foot sloggers, or have a squad of Storm Troopers to squeeze in with Infiltrate to shoot AP3 at their more protective units (Like marines, CSM, or Tyranid Warriors) to reduce their support for their more powerful units?

I definately want Yarrick and the PCS for taking down high armor opponents, but the question is do i continue the shooty, or is 40-60 shots good enough? i do know i want the PCS so i can instruct my platoons to Go to Ground when they're about to be ambushed by whatever massive target my enemy throws at them (especially the bloody Daemon Prince.)

so there it is, my only other thought is taking the remaining 100pts and adding a couple Scout Sentinels instead of Storm Troopers and Squads, but at 500pts the infantry just fit in so well. if i take the shock troops i guess i'll add a 4th melta to the PCS, let me know what you guys think.
 

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I think Yarrick is to dear and that other dude, Chen - something is almost as good but cheaper. Yarrick grants a re-roll to hit but so does a Priest, and for cheaper again. Yarrick is good with Ogryns though, but then I guess if you're going to go the whole hog then you might as well add Straken and build an assaulty list, as it's assault that suits Yarrick's abilities..to me anyway.

Honestly, the best all-round set-up for a Chimera is ML/HF..the others are too race specific in it's application..I assume you are building an all-rounder list. Also bear in mind that Melta - toting Units in Chimeras are kinda suicidal..it's in their job description, so don't expect the PCS to be issuing Orders for long.

Someone else can sing the praises of ST's...I do like them, but only take them after I have already built the list to 2k+, not as part of the initial base..they pale when compared to Vets.

Against the Opponents you mention, namely Nids/CSM, you want -

Plasma..helps negate FNP, and vets with 3 Plasma and BID kill GD/DP easily enough
High S/AP weapons..Blasts/AC/Lascannons for anti-hoard/transports
Flamers
Melta

I take 30 Infantry plus the PCS in nearly all my lists, anchor it with a Commissar, and then add whatever Mech units I want - if you aren't going Mech then you'll need HW's for added long range firepower.

- BW and HH are good choices depending on if you want anti-hoard (HH) or anti MEQ (BW).

-Valks if you want to transport those ST's, or any unit that needs to be in-game in the first 2/3 turns

- Vendettas are a Gunship first, transport second..stick scoring units like a SWS that can help with late game stuff like Objective taking.

- Sentinels are good at tarpitting as well as shooting. The Armoured ones make for better tarpits but are expensive. I like Scouts because they offer a wider choice of tactics..outflank etc.

Geez, I waffled on a bit..my $5 worth then:victory:
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Alright, atleast i know i was kind of heading in the right direction; lol.

So you wouldnt take 40 infantry, stick with the PCS and 30, no yarrick but a regular Lord Commissar?

you're right about the HF/HB bieng a little race specific, i've yet to have much use of the ML to know its strength/weaknesses. i'll probably go with ML/HF just to be sure but have the tree for the HF turret, incase i want to mix/match.

I will be taking Vets in my 1750 but i was going to take them with Meltas and not Plasmas, does Gets Hot make a difference if they're in the tank? or is this rule disregarded? I figured while in the Chimera the PCS would be pretty cozey inside for a 500pt battle, considering that the only things i've seen crack AV12 at that level were the LR and a Tyranid Prime, the DP could, but it wasn't incredible.

Yarrick is more suited for assault, thats true, and without Ogryn he doesnt have alot of chances to make it face to face, at 500pts between me and my friends its all been a mix of range/assault, so thats why this list is rather mixed.

I'll tweak it and apply some of your suggestions, thanks alot though :) i want to start collecting IG but i want to make a small competitive force for me and my friends to prove that IG isn't a weak army.. hehe.

I may still use Yarrick in the fact that i like him and his fluff, he's pretty BA, and he's the first IG Zombie, thats something i like :D.

Maybe take out the Chimera, and add the Ogryn to work with Yarrick? i might have to take out the Meltas to fit them, but would the Ogryn and Yarrick have enough muster to take down a Tyranid Prime or DP?
 

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So you wouldnt take 40 infantry, stick with the PCS and 30, no yarrick but a regular Lord Commissar?
I just take 30 & a PCS, oh and a SWS, but you can take as many as you want to:grin: I just think Yarrick is too many points, and fits more into a mainly Infantry list, say 2 full(ish) Platoons, not one that is going to include Vets in Chimeras etc.

you're right about the HF/HB bieng a little race specific, i've yet to have much use of the ML to know its strength/weaknesses. i'll probably go with ML/HF just to be sure but have the tree for the HF turret, incase i want to mix/match.
I should have mentioned that a Hull HB is fine on a Chimera that is going to act as a firebase-type unit sitting back at range for a few turns. HF's are for the more mobile in-your-face - type units, like those with Meltas.

I will be taking Vets in my 1750 but i was going to take them with Meltas and not Plasmas, does Gets Hot make a difference if they're in the tank? or is this rule disregarded? I figured while in the Chimera the PCS would be pretty cozey inside for a 500pt battle, considering that the only things i've seen crack AV12 at that level were the LR and a Tyranid Prime, the DP could, but it wasn't incredible.
Plasma still has Get's Hot in a Chimera..I like Plasma - twice the range/RoF, but yea it doesn't have to be on the Vets, but when facing some opponents (like your ones) I always have Plasma somewhere in the list. Try and give the PCS the full 4 SW's to mitigate the BS3 somewhat.

Yarrick is more suited for assault, thats true, and without Ogryn he doesnt have alot of chances to make it face to face, at 500pts between me and my friends its all been a mix of range/assault, so thats why this list is rather mixed.
Cool..in the end everyone should field what they want to..there aren't that many poor choices in the Codex.

I'll tweak it and apply some of your suggestions, thanks alot though :) i want to start collecting IG but i want to make a small competitive force for me and my friends to prove that IG isn't a weak army.. hehe.
In my area IG are one of the top tier lists, but it's mainly a Mech build. Successful Infantry - heavy lists I've seen are nearly all beefed up for c/c, so have Straken leading them and max out on combined PW/PF Blobs and lots of HW's, or just take massive amounts of bodies that the enemy can't possibly kill (they hope). They all need leadership/Morale boosts though, which comes from the Characters/Standards/Commissars etc.

I may still use Yarrick in the fact that i like him and his fluff, he's pretty BA, and he's the first IG Zombie, thats something i like :D.

Maybe take out the Chimera, and add the Ogryn to work with Yarrick? i might have to take out the Meltas to fit them, but would the Ogryn and Yarrick have enough muster to take down a Tyranid Prime or DP?
Like I said, totally up to you, but if you go that assaulty route I think you need to go the whole hog, because a unit here and there won't cut it against the truly effective c/c units out there.

Someone like Alexious is brilliant at Infantry-heavy lists..I'm sure he'd help if you asked:angel:

All the best anyway.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
but to use Straken don't you have to have a CCS? i'm still confused how 5th Ed IG HQ's work, it sounds like you have the CCS, then you can replace their officers with others in the list, but no HQ and retinue (other than Priests and Lord Commissars and Yarrick) otherwise i would totally take Straken, can he be added to a PCS the same way as a CCS?
 

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Yes you do need a CCS to take Straken as he replaces the Company Commander..so does Creed. But CCS's are a very good choice as you can take things that enhance a list - Regimental Standard, the Advisors, plus up to 4 SW's at BS4..well worth the points.

I just suggested Straken because he is the one to take if you were to go the assaulty route (not that I would, but I'm too much of a treadhead).

No, Straken can't be in a PCS..only Chenkov and Al'Rahem.

EDIT: I just had a look at your 1750 list from a few weeks ago..it was a good list, so you know what you're doing as far as building a list goes, just not exactly what I'd take but so what..there are only a few poor choices to avoid.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
having a CCS and a PCS just bugs me, its seems like you /have/ to have them in IG, like theyre a staple unit instead of any other HQ, and to have infantry squads you have to have a PCS..

ill look at it more, and come back with another list.

thanks, to be fair i stole the idea and modified it from someone else.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Yeah, i may have to go with a more mechanized list as well, i can't fit the CCS, PCS, and 3 Squads with enough PW's and still fit Straken, much less no transports or anything armor to back them up. would you put PW's on all the squads or just the squad Straken is in?
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
Heres what i got so far, so i'm thinking, since this is more of an assault list, taking Meltas over Plasmas, as i'm going to be assaulting mostly anyway. That frees up points for everything in this list.

HQ:

Company Command Squad
Straken
Powerfist
Banner
4x Meltas

Troops

Platoon Command Squad
Powerfist
Banner
4x Meltas

30 Infantry Squad
Commissar
Powerfist

Seem like what you were talking about?

i could take out all the SW's to add Chimeras, maybe leave a fist on the CCS with Straken, would that be a good idea? the Chimeras could hold Straken and the PCS and the infantry could take the First rank Fire! second rank Fire! order, 30 x 2 bieng 60 shots, 90 at 12 inches? give or take considering the Sgt.
 

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Heres what i got so far, so i'm thinking, since this is more of an assault list, taking Meltas over Plasmas, as i'm going to be assaulting mostly anyway. That frees up points for everything in this list.

HQ:

Company Command Squad
Straken
Powerfistcan't take this as no one to put it on
Banner
4x Meltasyou get 4 choices total so you'd have to lose a melta or the banner

Troops

Platoon Command Squad
Powerfist
Banner
4x Meltassame problem as above with banners and meltas

30 Infantry Squad
Commissar
Powerfist commisar can't take a powerfist here sarge in squad can

Seem like what you were talking about?

i could take out all the SW's to add Chimeras, maybe leave a fist on the CCS with Straken, would that be a good idea? the Chimeras could hold Straken and the PCS and the infantry could take the First rank Fire! second rank Fire! order, 30 x 2 bieng 60 shots, 90 at 12 inches? give or take considering the Sgt.
It seems like your trying to go the hard route of taking a non cc army and wedging it into the cc role. Here was my 500 for a recent escalation league

CCS 4 plasma in a chimera

PCS 4 flamers in chimera
Infantry Squad w/autocannon in chimera
Infantry Squad w/autocannon in chimera

for 500pts this is pretty sick if you want more melta swap out plasmas and flamers for meltas.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
you're right about the banners i forgot. my Spreadsheet program doesn't warn me of illegal actions :p.

Honestly, i wasnt wanting to go all assault, my original list was the one above but i'm thinking of doing just Yarrick, 2 Vet squads, 3 Chimeras, and see if i can fit a squad of Ogyrn in there to attach to Yarrick and suck up some wounds. (Course i cant, the 3 Chimeras and vets and Yarrick is 490pts, course thats not a terrible idea either..)

The real thing i'm dealing with is really big, obnoxious elite units like Daemon Prince, Hive Tyrant, Tyranid Primes with Bone Swords, and Land Raiders.

and they pack this at 500pts.

like one list i dealt with was a Daemon Prince and 2 squads of Sonic Marines :|.

so when i'm making my IG army, i was trying to build against those kinds of issues, which is why i was going to take the PCS with Meltas, and Yarrick. and 30 infantry to Dakka Dakka his DP, soak up some damage with my Platoon, and Assault with Yarrick & PCS, the transport is fully capable of dealing with Sonic Marines, so i was building around these assumptions.

Of course, like HOBO said, there's very few poor choices, this list is less competitive as it is mixed and simple, if i wanted to be competitive i would probably take CCS and Vets in Chimeras, Melta or Plas either way it'd Eff their Saves in the A.
 

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You're heading for 1750 anyway, and you know what weapons you need to take against your opponent's armies, so take the units that can choose said weapons and do some playtesting, play some games against your opponents and change your list based on how you went.

As far as Yarrick goes he might be great at the 1750 level, but using up a third of your points on a single unit at 500 pts is just handicapping yourself..in my eyes anyway.

Still, I couldn't tell you the last time I played a game smaller than 1500, let alone 500.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I'm sorry hobo, im not trying to belittle you, and im listening to your opinion :) (you get a point for dealing with my bullshit). you guys are right and i need to assume the role thats more like the guard. (i was just afraid to go all mech on him cause some see it as "cheap")
 

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I didn't think you were trying to do that (not sure why you thought that).

There's no need to go full Mech, I don't. I always have a PCS (goes in a Vendetta or Chimera) and a 30 Man Blob w/ Commissar. It works well at providing a -
- Firebase that can camp on an objective and put firepower downrange
- bubblewrap any Artillery and/or Russ I hold back in my DZ against DS/outflankers
- give numbers to a list

Like I say, do some testing and see how your planned builds perform..but in the end buy whatever models you want if you think thet will be fun. I have Yarrick and Ogryns and use them quite a lot in Campaigns/Narratives and Apoc..just not in lists where I want the units to be effective, and that is based on both their performance and points cost.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
well, in my debating it sometimes feels like i'm arguing with you XD. and i'm not, but if you feel i am, i'm just trying to not get anyone angry here, i really like Heresy and you guys have helped me out alot, and i'm truely still a n00b i'm just trying to pit my ideas against everyone elses. (I know some people get really mad at new guys who ask for advice and don't take it, i try not to be one of those people, i'm just really stubborn! x.x)

anyway, regardless, the PCS + 3 squads still fits in my idea range, so i'll just add yarrick from there and fiddle around, can't get myself in too much trouble, and honestly with those 30 men, his elite unite can easily get trounced down field without any attempt on my part. thanks for the tips and suggestions :)
 

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No dramas on my end mate, and I'm all for debating ideas to and fro. One thing I don't like seeing is someone change their lists as soon as they get even just 1 suggestion in a post, and bam next post is an updated list with that suggested change in it. It's also why I say that there are many good units in the Codex, so choosing one over another isn't going to turn a list from effective to ineffective just like magic.

I will point out units etc that I consider poor choices though, and it's based on many many games, not just an odd one here and there.

So we're cool dude:wink:...I think your PCS & 3 Squads is a fine basis for a list, even a Mech one, and leaving Yarrick for larger games is a wise move.
 
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