protoss119, Awesome just awsome.
Uh...noAs soon as Jedi are involved all hope for 40k flies out the window
Gasp! You mean an entire empire had 25k star destroyers, om, I would be willing to bet a single sector out numbers that by 25k^shitload.I'll see your Catachan Devil or Barking Toad and raise you a Duinuogwuin (Star Dragon).
Coynites are a honour bound martial race that could be played by players.
I'll concede the ground battle to 40k, but space superiority would belongs to Star Wars. Not overly one sided, but they would win eventually. A single Star Destroyer could institute Base-Delta-Zero in leave in a matter of minutes on any planet. Alternatively, a few well placed Gravity Wells would instantly destroy any number of reinforcements coming.
The Imperial Fleet(during Palpatine's reign) had 25,000+ Star Destroyers (mix of ISD I-III) - 72-96 fighters, 50 walkers each; Millions of support craft, and a few Super Star Destroyers(a couple with Super Lasers), plus a Death Star. The Hapan Armada was only slightly less numerous, and a Hapan Battle Dragon was just under an ISD I in effectiveness. Add in the Emperor's Force Storm, the ability to transfer his life to any of his clones, the martial prowess of the Sovereign Guard, etc.
When bringing stats into the equation, remember that Flyers can travel 36" in 1 turn, ahich IIRC is about 6 seconds, so 6" a second. A marine is about 8ft tall and 1.5 inches high, so 32 ft is around 6". So, Flyers therefore that means that flyers move at 20,000ft an hour, or in other words, 6km/hour.I only named two of the races/groups that have space faring fleets. There are numerous more that could be included. I'm not discussing comics, books, etc. This is actual in game statistics, not the crap from the movies or whatnot.
Strength and Toughness 3
Strength and Toughness 4 (In Power Armour)
Lasgun/Boltgun/Heavy Bolter/Assault Cannon/Plasma/Krak Missile/Lascannon
Stormtrooper(average human pcs would be 3D)
Strength 2D (covers both)
Wookiees/Coynites/Gamorreans(the list could go on and on)
Hold-Out Blaster/Blaster/Heavy Blaster/Heavy Blaster Rifle/E-Web Repeating Blaster
The only valid point that scale brings is that the 40k universe is more widely known. If needed, I can search through all my old SW:RPG books and start listing everything Star Wars has available, but frankly I don't think anyone will have a change of opinion.
Now we are just getting into the faintly ridiculous. Both universes have their own retardedly OP characters and descriptions that vary depending on author etc. To counter this fantastical claim (once again, you're restricting your argument to the Imperium), how would said uber-Sith counter for example, the Chaos Gods? How would they even cope with the Warp? For every nugget of OP gold you pull out of the SW universe, there is an equally OP one in the 40K universe. The Chaos Gods can create Warp Storms at a whim, and we haven't even seen a glimpse of their true power in the material universe yet as they're too concerned with the Great Game. If they decided to fight in this hypothetical war against the Force, who knows what they could do?I think people are biasing their Star Wars opinions off the movies. Most moderately powerful Dark Jedi could reliably wipe out a Space Marine chapter, including its Librarians, with only a little prep work. The Emperor(Star Wars) could destroy Terra and the majority of its defense network from across the galaxy while sipping his iced tea from a recliner.
This is perhaps the single most destructive Force power known. It allows the Jedi to twist the space-time continuum to create vast storms of Force. The power also allows limited control of these storms. Capable of creating annihilating vortices, the storms can swallow whole fleets of spaceships or tear the surfaces off worlds.
Use of this power requires the focusing of hate and anger to an almost palpable degree and there is considerable danger. Some are able to create Force storms, but fail at harnessing what they have foolishly unleashed. Often, those who fail to control the storm are themselves consumed and destroyed. If the Force-user is destroyed the storm dissipates within minutes.
When a Jedi attempts to create a Force storm, he must determine the diameter and the amount of damage (the damage dice are capital scale). If the Jedi fails any of the rolls, the storm is summoned with the desired damage, but it attempts to consume the summoner.
Ok a few thinks terminator armor as chinks and it gets weak, it's not like a few STs got killed by arrows it was an entire planets worth and by that logic ST's save is SV -Stormtroopers called killed with arrows, but my guardsman killed a pair of terminators in close combat once. I guess they don't have a 2+ save after all. I mean, he was a regular guard, they were terminators with big shiny shields and massive hammers. If a regular human can do that, I don't think it is farfetched to think Stormtroopers failed a few Svs against arrows. It would most likely be 5+ armour. I would say Ewok Arrows don't have an AP value.
No need.Spanner, my apologies.
Precisely. Damn these versus debates - they bring out the worst.I've been a long time player of the Star Wars RPG, and am a fanboy. I've played the Dark Jedi in an RPG club that just what I described. I eventually retired him because it was to over powered in the setting, but my character operated in an area that did not have a lot of Jedi. I could count on one hand the Jedi throughout the whole club that were more powerful. But it does work both ways. Librarians instantly killing every Jedi they see. Boltguns being uberly more lethal. Star Wars armour being crappy because some mini bears killed cannon fodder wearing some. As you said, both sides are guilty of it.
I suppose that's again part of the discussion. Does Star Wars have any god-like entities that compare to the Chaos Gods? Or for that matter the C'Tan at the height of their powers? Or the Eldar gods before the fall?Being a Chaos player, I don't know how the Gods would react. A part of me thinks Tzeentch would instantly offer Palpatine Daemonic Ascension, considering his proficiency in scheming and plotting. Of course, that would be like booning Abaddon into a Daemon Prince.
I'm still not sold on the space superiority thing, but I guess we have to look at what ntaw said with the whole setting. If it was in the 40k universe then the Star Wars fleets would be torn apart by warp storms and Daemon incursions. However if it were the inverse, then there would be no access to warp travel etc, which bones all 40k races except pretty much Tau.You did hit the metaphorical nail on the head though. I know a fair amount of 40K, but a whole lot of Star Wars. Even with the super Jedi powers, the majority couldn't sustain their use through a campaign. Star Wars would lose the ground fight, I've said it before. There are not enough Jedi to outlast the 40K on the ground, and I know of nothing to combat the Titans. Space would eventually belong to Star Wars, though, and once that happened, the ground battle would no longer matter. Base-Delta-Zero = Exterminatus. Reliable FTL travel. Instant communication across the galaxy. The ability to destroy entire fleets at a time coming for reinforcements. I believe Star Wars has the edge in manufacturing power. If 40K didn't destroy key installations, Star Wars would out produce them. One killed Space Marine that they got their hands on...
Indeed. I think the whole galaxy constantly at war factor in 40k does give it that edge in the sense that there are always worlds to recruit from (or Hive Fleets to spawn from etc), whereas much of the Star Wars galaxy depends upon clone production. Also, I saw you mention that minor world consisting of ~6bn (and that was a small world). Compare that to Cadia - 850,000,000 (lexicanum). And that's one planet. I still think 40k surpasses on scale.Purpose is the biggest difference. Star Wars is set in the 'Known Galaxy' and is primarily the Empire or one of the Republics. I imagine that had the Emperor of Man not fallen during the Heresy, the two might be much more similar. Both Emperor's don't particularly like aliens/xenos and have no problem wiping them out. Instead, 40K is ravaged by open war, where Star Wars isn't.
A quick search returned about 22 sectors in the Core Worlds. Originally sectors were divided with 50 planets supporting life, but that was an aged division and many sectors quickly outgrew the system. I might be a little off on this(not referencing sketchbook, getting ready to head to an 1850 tournament). I imagine 'Hive Worlds' would match to the Inner Rim Region more closely. 40k has much more, readily available documentation, but I imagine the two are much closer in scale, with 40k most likely edging out. 32k Hive Worlds is a lot, and Core Worlds probably convert 10:1 on average. Assuming ~75 inhabited planets to a sector, the Core is roughly equivalent to 15-17k Hive Worlds on ~1600ish planets. Inner Rim would be much closer, but not as many inhabited planets, but overall I'm guessing twice the population in 40k over roughly the same amount of space. Maybe.Of course I'd be able to lend a hand. My knowledge beyond the films might not be great (I play The Old Republic if that counts for anything :laugh: ), but in terms of game mechanics and unit creation I'd be happy to help.
Also, my bad on the population of Cadia - I was looking for a Hive World.
"There are approximately 32,380 Hive Worlds in the Imperium" - Lexicanum. Scrolling down that page, it would appear the average population of a Hive World is around the 80 billion mark.