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JUGGERNUT
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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Just for shits 'n giggles. Do you think this is a fairly priced unit? Are the rules not unfair or overpowered?

The Skullcrushers of Khorne are a bloody nightmare to behold on the battlefield. Each a champion of Khorne in their own right, these raging butchers have braved the stables of the blood god and triumphantly saddled a Juggernaut. Whether blanketing their foes in torrents of promethium or hacking them apart with chainaxes, the Skullcrushers and their daemon mounts have reaped mountains of skulls across centuries of warfare.

Skullcrushers of Khorne:
Occupy an Elites slot
160 points per unit, +55 points per additional Skullcrusher
Base Unit Size: 3: 2 Skullcrushers and 1 Skull Champion
Max Unit Size: 8: 7 Skullcrushers and 1 Skull Champion

As champions of the blood god, the Skullcrushers respect nothing more than prowess in battle. When a particularly fearsome warlord proves himself worthy of a Juggernaut, the Skullcrushers ride beside him in pursuit of murderous glory and a deluge of blood.
The Bloodriders: If your warlord is a Chaos Lord equipped with a Mark of Khorne and a Juggernaut, then any unit of Skullcrushers joined by the Warlord gains the Rending special rule. The Warlord does not benefit from this special rule.

Skullcrusher of Khorne:

WS5/BS4/S4/T5/W2/I4/A2/Ld8/3+

Unit Type: Cavalry

Special Rules: Mark of Khorne, Fearless, Furious Charge, Battle Bond

Wargear: Power Armor, Bolt Pistol, Close Combat Weapon, Frag Grenades, Krak Grenades, Juggernaut of Khorne

Once dominated, a Juggernaut quickly learns that cooperating with its rider in battle results in even greater carnage.
Battle Bond: The Juggernaut confers a 5+ Invulnerable save to its rider.

Skullcrushers Upgrades:
- One Skullcrusher may take an Icon of the Brass Stampede for 10 points.
- The unit may take Veterans of the Long War for 1 point per model.
- Any model in the unit may upgrade their Bolt Pistol to a Plasma Pistol: 15 points.
- Up to three models in the unit may purchase Flamers: 5 points.

The Skullcrushers carry a daemonic icon into combat that seethes with the raw hatred of the warp. When their Juggernauts are exposed to this fel aura, they are driven into a fury so terrible that no obstacles impede their charge, they simply smash their way across the battlefield.
Icon of the Brass Stampede: +1 to Assault results and confers Move Through Cover to the unit.

Skull Champion:

Unit type: Cavalry (Character)

WS5/BS4/S4/T5/W2/I4/A3/Ld9/3+

Skull Champion Special Rules: Character, Champion of Chaos, Mark of Khorne, Fearless, Furious Charge, Blood Bond

Skull Champion Wargear: Power Armor, Bolt Pistol, Close Combat Weapon, Frag Grenades, Krak Grenades, Juggernaut of Khorne

Skull Champion Upgrades:
- The Skull Champion has access to the Melee/Ranged Weapons section of the wargear list.
- The Skull Champion may exchange his Bolt Pistol and Close Combat Weapon for a pair of Lightning Claws: 30 points.
- The Skull Champion may take a gift of mutation: 10 points.
- The Skull Champion may take meltabombs: 5 points.

RATIONALE:

Well, this is obviously a unit I've created by combining the stats of a Berzerker and the bonuses bestowed by a Juggernaut mount.

I'm pretty sure 55 points is a good starting point.

Rules/Gear Discussion:

Icon of the Stampede: Icon of Wrath would literally serve no purpose for this unit. They already have Furious Charge, and being Cavalry, have Fleet so they don't need the ability to re-roll charge distance from a banner. Move Through Cover seems like a pretty useful thing to have without being overpowered. Cavalry only need to worry about dangerous terrain tests, as relatively mundane as those are, and this banner lets them avoid dealing with that situation.

Flamers mostly as a flavor thing. I firmly believe in setting xenos or loyalists on fire before ripping them apart. They're obviously a CC unit, but this could expand their versatility a bit. The main reason, though, is to provide overwatch shots in case they get charged. I like the idea of that. Really, it's a waste of points. If you want a fast unit that can take flamers - and for much cheaper - bikers do the job.

Lightning Claws in a pair, for once. 'Nuff said.

160 points for the minimum squad, 435 for a full squad of 8. For a kitted out unit: 8 of them with 3 Flamers, Icon of the Brass Stampede, twin Lightning Claws on the Skull Champ: 510 points. I think that seems like a pretty fair price.

Am I totally off?

This unit is best at slaying Infantry, a role which is already well covered by multiple units in the CSM codex. However, this isn't so much about covering bases as it is playing the units that from a fluff perspective tickle me the pinkest. Berzerkers + Juggernauts = heaven.

A base unit, charging: 2 Skullcrushers: 2 attacks base + 1 pistol/ccw + 2 Rage = 5 attacks on the charge at S5 due to Furious Charge; multiplied by 2 for 10 attacks. Then the Skull Champion: 3 attacks base + 1 pistol/ccw + 2 Rage: 6 attacks on the charge at S5 due to Furious Charge. For a total of 16 attacks on the charge. Sweet.

If a base unit is charged, and passes their Leadership test for Counter Attack: (4*2) + 5 = 13 attacks if charged, at S4. Not bad. Factor in 3*d3 flamer hits, if they've got 'em, and that's pretty nasty.

A full unit charging: (5*5) + 6 = 31 S5 attacks on the charge. Heheheh.
If charged: (4*4) + 5 = 25 S4 attacks. Cool.

Including a unit of Skullcrushers as a retinue for a Juggerlord changes their role a bit, or at least expands their capabilities. Rending allows the unit to take on stuff with a 2+ like Terminators and Riptides, and forces them to take their invuln saves. Rending also gives them a shot at killing vehicles if they get lucky with their rolls. S5 + d6 on its own isn't that much, but if you get lucky and roll a 6: S5+6+d3, you can hurt AV12 at a minimum.

 

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I'd probably go for the same thing as berzerkers in the way that they have regular CC weapons and need to upgrade to have chainaxes (not that chain axes are that good, str as user and AP4, most things with a save of 4 or worse probably wont last in CC against you anyway).

Unfortunately as well, you'd have to include the champion in the starting 3, as is the case with the rest of the codex. Can also see a lot of QQ abour master-crafted weapon on a champion, its not THAT good, but can still see lots of QQ. Same with the included bombs, make them an extra.

Also, be weary about posting stats and point values of things.
 

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JUGGERNUT
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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
Er, you're right about the points thing. I got wrapped up in the fictional aspect of it and didn't even think about what I was doing. I'll fix some stuff.

Well, ok. If I have to include the champ, fair enough. Not a big deal. I'll give up the Chainaxes on everyone and insist on Rending when joining the Juggerlord :wild:

Tyvm for the response!
 

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Well, ok. If I have to include the champ, fair enough. Not a big deal. I'll give up the Chainaxes on everyone and insist on Rending when joining the Juggerlord

Tyvm for the response!
Rending will be very good, especially with the amount of attacks you'll have. As for these guys in Warhammer Fantasy, they.... ooohhh... ohhh baby.... oh yeah..... sorry...I got a little... carried away... err... I need to go to the toilet....
 

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So, like, shouldn't you pay me or something? Khorne beats me when I come back empty-handed.
I can pay you in diseases or death... its the only currency Nurgle offers :)
 

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JUGGERNUT
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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
I can pay you in diseases or death... its the only currency Nurgle offers :)
No, I fell down the stairs. That's why my skull is missing right now...

I updated the unit based on your comments. Does seem pretty in-line with the way the codex works, so is probably as fair as possible in terms of upgrades and such.
 

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well its basicaly 55pt for a csm biker +1 ws i think they need a better weapon for that price as a starter
The whole things of the skullcrushers is that he's making them Khorne Berzerker's but mounted on Juggernaughts. So It's basically the point cost of a Jugger + the point cost of a Zerker + extras. Much better than a Biker, 2 wounds, furious charge, RAGE, T5. I'd take crushers anyday!
 

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JUGGERNUT
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2,558 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
And Rending, since the Juggerlord will obviously be with them, and Move Through Cover because why not take that?

They aren't supposed to be anything over the top, just fluffy and fun.

*edit*

Added some really stereotypically Khornate descriptions to the unit/upgrades.
 
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