[Ryan El'Jonson]

How about a discussion comparing the varios pros and cons of all of the editions of 40k. Prefer the slower, somethimes more 'realistic' approach of 2nd or the faster more streamlined 4th edition? Have your say!

Carrying on from another thread heading off-topic about Hive Tyrants with BS7 and overwatch...

Thats why overwatch was POO. still hitting on a 2+ when thing was supposed to be hard to hit. It mad the game very defensive. Whoever comes out of cover first takes the first hits, so both players sit there and hide/overwatch the majority of there army.

I think the initiative 10 on a unit in cover makes the game more defensive than overwatch ever did. Close combat has been totally turned upside down because of it. There's no denying that the old combat was unbearably slow, 3000pt games took us the best part of a weekend but genestealers losing on the charge to eldar tarts wearing squeaky masks... not right.

 

[Ryan El'Jonson]

What I liked about 2nd Edition.
Different movement values of troops in different armies.
Better movement through cover rules.
More realistic approach to cc, though a LOT slower
Tyranids had the real cc advantage in the day
Modifies to the 'to hit roll' were better than cover saves

What I prefer in 4th (I never did play 3rd)
Different weapon types like assault, rapid fire pistols
Less emphasis on silly OTT characters
Better Armour penetration rules in cc
AP is better than armour modifies
Assault phase addition is better

 

[Deadshane]

I think the initiative 10 on a unit in cover makes the game more defensive than overwatch ever did. Close combat has been totally turned upside down because of it. There's no denying that the old combat was unbearably slow, 3000pt games took us the best part of a weekend but genestealers losing on the charge to eldar tarts wearing squeaky masks... not right.

I dont find that the Initiative 10 thing effects the game at all. Most dedicated hand to hand units have at least frag if not something better. Sometimes it effects combat, but for the most part its only against bigger monsters/units like daemons/avatar and such.

 

[Wrath of Khaine]

Something I DONT miss is World Eaters gaining nearly double everything when they charged. Kharne was a BEAST in second edition, especially backed by squads of beserkers with the super-mega-2nd edition furious charge. Of course, a nice Chief Librarian with Iron Arm, Gate, Quickening, and Destroy Daemon could dominate an entire chaos army of any aspect in a couple of turns. He didn't even need backup....
Those I don't miss.

Khaine

 

[jigplums]

Things that were crap:
doom + midwar = anything in the game dead.
Vortex grenade
strategy cards
strategy rolls[tyranids]
Assassins
combat drugs
Monsterous creatures be virtually unkillable[jezlad likes to call the carnifex of old "GOD MODE"
the fact whole armies could get to the opps force in the first turn.
Games taking 2 days instead of 2 hours
CC was more fitting with a roleplay game than a tabletop
Overwatch makng the game defensive
No missions
Hiding[again making the game defensive]


Things that were good:
Eldar could shoot
Movement was better
Way psychic powers worked was better[but no way perfect]

Things that are better in 4th:
Weapons doing 1 wound + instant kill
missions are a huge improvement to the game
alpha/gamma/omega mission levels
CC
Little guys have a chance against characters, mc's etc
Weapon option simplifications
no more super exarchs

 

[The Wraithlord]

I never played 2nd Ed and only had a short while with 3rd before we started using the trial vehicle rules here. As a result, the change from 3rd ed to 4th was not all that huge to me. However, I will say a couple of likes/dislikes:

Likes

Rapid Fire changes
Emphasis on more mobility
Game length
Uber characters tuned down
Missions
Mission levels

Dislikes

Vehicle damages charts make it too easy to kill armour
Instant kill
Slightly oversimplified imho


One thing I have disliked from the beginning however is the UGO/IGO format. I would really love to see something a bit more dynamic like alternating turns or something along those lines.

 

[The Son of Horus]

I agree about the vehicle charts. I think vehicles are unrealistically soft, but changing the charts would throw the points values out of whack. They work as they are, for the most part.

 

[Wrath of Khaine]

The only thing that I would agree upon is if all vehicles had hull points, similar to super heavies but easier to take down. Maybe anything with a total hull value of 46 or greater has 2 hull points(wounds). Any rolls of 6 on a penetrate destroys no matter the points.

One thing I miss are Rhinos being worthwhile. And everyone's favorite, the Foot of Gork/Mork spell. I know anyone with Dark Millenium pretended stepping on their troops with it the moment you openned the box! Those were the days. I'd love to see a Dark Millenium expansion that adds advanced rules to the game and are tournament optional, according to whoever is running it.

Khaine