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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Played in the monthly 1K at my local store today and got tabled by someone playing 4 riptides in turn 6. I ran two Knights, one 5 man tac squad with a librarian and another in a drop pod with a multimelta. My opponent put one riptide, with 6 haywire shots plus D3 strength 8 shots in front of a knight and another, same layout jumped 24" behind another the same knight. I could only Ion Shield one side and so I was wiped out in one round, then he did the same thing to another knight after i defeated a riptide in CC (after 2 rounds really bad rolling on my part and great 3+ invuls on his part). The troops were wiped out shortly after.

Other than CC how do Knights deal with that many haywire shots? I know nothing of Tau but I want to buy the codex just to figure out what the hell they can take.

I was stunned, especially after tabling a Necron player in turn 3 my first game.

:cray:

Edit: Also I did not know that I can only snap shot my multimelta in the turn in arrives from a drop pod...
 

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Haywire hard counters knights. Or indeed any expensive resilient heavy armour. In the day of Knights and LR spam, Lascannons and meltas just can't cut it unless there's Strength D in the picture.

Necrons 12" Haywire range is a bummer, but 5 Stormteks is what, 175pts for 20 shots? So similar deal should they go for that.

Only way to win that game is by not taking armour - and I'm trying to remember how much the cheapest Eldar Titan is. Failing that a Warhound with Twin Turbo Laser Destructors with Void Shields has like 14 effective HP to tank that many haywire shots.



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Played in the monthly 1K at my local store today and got tabled by someone playing 4 riptides in turn 6. I ran two Knights, one 5 man tac squad with a librarian and another in a drop pod with a multimelta. My opponent put one riptide, with 6 haywire shots plus D3 strength 8 shots in front of a knight and another, same layout jumped 24" behind another the same knight. I could only Ion Shield one side and so I was wiped out in one round, then he did the same thing to another knight after i defeated a riptide in CC (after 2 rounds really bad rolling on my part and great 3+ invuls on his part). The troops were wiped out shortly after.

Other than CC how do Knights deal with that many haywire shots? I know nothing of Tau but I want to buy the codex just to figure out what the hell they can take.

I was stunned, especially after tabling a Necron player in turn 3 my first game.

:cray:

Edit: Also I did not know that I can only snap shot my multimelta in the turn in arrives from a drop pod...
What kind of Riptides was he running? Because Riptides from the standard Tau codex do not have any haywire weaponry at all. I don't know if he was running a Forgeworld variant or from the Farsight Supplement, as I have none of those, perhaps someone who plays Tau more can inform me on this...

As for the Multi-melta, yes you would only be able to snap-fire it as Deepstriking counts as moving at-least combat speed for it's occupants, and since a Multi-Melta is a Heavy weapon, you'd have to not move to fire it normally.

@Vaz: 5 Storm-teks is 125 points. The only thing they lack is a reliable delivery service. So one could be replaced with a Harbinger of Despair with the Veil of Darkness for Deepstriking, or attach Obyron to the unit.
 

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Rattlehead
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What kind of Riptides was he running? Because Riptides from the standard Tau codex do not have any haywire weaponry at all. I don't know if he was running a Forgeworld variant or from the Farsight Supplement, as I have none of those, perhaps someone who plays Tau more can inform me on this...

As for the Multi-melta, yes you would only be able to snap-fire it as Deepstriking counts as moving at-least combat speed for it's occupants, and since a Multi-Melta is a Heavy weapon, you'd have to not move to fire it normally.

@Vaz: 5 Storm-teks is 125 points. The only thing they lack is a reliable delivery service. So one could be replaced with a Harbinger of Despair with the Veil of Darkness for Deepstriking, or attach Obyron to the unit.
It's a Y'vahra Pattern, from Forge World. Dedicated anti-tank version, which had insane experimental rules but was nerfed to hell in the actual release. It loses a lot of mobility in gaining the heavier guns though so I'm surprised to see one jumping around, I didn't think they could do that but I don't have the rules on hand.

Reliable delivery for Stormteks is a 100pt Night Scythe, I'm pretty sure the Court can bring one and it's probably the most reliable deep-field deployment you can find, especially as you get a 6" move to spread the Stormteks over two facings to avoid the Ion Shield for a couple of them.
 

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Well, what could i say. you just got the hard counter to your hard conter...nothing else to add, i think.
 

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Entropy Fetishist
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I was under the impression that the Y'vahra was still only Experimental--where have it's actual rules been released? I only see the link to the experimental ones down at the bottom of the page, there.

(and even if your meta allows Forge World, which is all well and good, I'm leery of the idea of allowing Experimental units in an organized tourney...)
 

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(and even if your meta allows Forge World, which is all well and good, I'm leery of the idea of allowing Experimental units in an organized tourney...)
Agreed and seconded
 

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Did your opponent have a copy of the Rules available for you to see?

The ones you are quoting bear no relation to the experimental ones currently downloadable from Forge World, and the XV-109 doesn't appear in the Taros Campaign re-release according to the picture of the Index Page that is on the Forge World Website.
 

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I was under the impression that the Y'vahra was still only Experimental--where have it's actual rules been released? I only see the link to the experimental ones down at the bottom of the page, there.

(and even if your meta allows Forge World, which is all well and good, I'm leery of the idea of allowing Experimental units in an organized tourney...)
^This

Sounds like you were outcheesed by a fellow cheese connaiseur:grin:
 

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He was running 4 Y'Vahra Riptides? Insane. Deep pockets.

Are there actual "official" rules for these out yet? As stated above, I don't see anything except the "experimental" set.
 

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It looks to me like he's not even using the Experimental Rules properly.
 

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Terribly sorry, I'm thinking of the R'varna; a 260pt Riptide with an extra Wound and T7 at the cost of losing the Jet Pack, with a Flechette Discharger and 2 Pulse Submunition Cannons - 60" Str6 AP4 Large Blast Heavy 1 Cluster Fire (gains Strength 7 and every model under the template is hit twice if firing at any Bikes/Jetbikes/Beasts/Cavalry/models with Very Bulky, and Str8 and every model under the template is hit three times if firing at Extremely Bulky models/Fortifications/Vehicles) and a NOVA Reactor with 1. 3+ Invuln 2. Fires each Submunition Cannon twice, can't fire in 'the subsequent turn' which technically just means you can't Intercept with it 3. 6" bubble of S2 AP5 Haywire and 4. Gains Fleet and runs 2D6" instead of D6".

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/R/Rvarna15-1-2014.pdf

But it definitely doesn't have that many Haywire shots.
 

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Aren't they in IA3 Taros 2e? Don't have that yet.
It might be, but this is certainly one set; the previous set of experimental rules had it at AP3, benefitted from Storm of Fire, and could take any of the Support Systems a normal Riptide can take (rather than being limited to Positional Relay and Stimulant Injector).
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Honestly I never asked to see the rules, it's a small local tournament and I haven't played in 3 months so I figured it was something new from a FAQ or formation. Only two had the haywire rules, another one was T7 and his "commander". My list was bound and don't consider it cheese because I have never won the tournament using knights, only playing AM as a matter of fact. I've only used knights 3 or 4 times in any of my games but wanted to get use to them as I plan on using the Adamantine Lance formation in an 1850 list, although I might be better off with just a pure drop pod list instead. I'm not a super competitive player, I enjoy the painting aspect mostly, but I want to get the most out of the money I've spent so I figured I'd use what I got.

I asked him to play a 1850 game this week but I will certainly ask to see the rules for his riptides before hand now and probably bring a more balanced list. I'm experimenting at the moment so I'd like to find a nice balanced 1850 list for my February tournament...my search continues :)

Thanks all for the feedback! The more you know :victory:
 

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Here is where my apprehension for playing this game even semi competitive...you have to know your opponent's rules almost better than they do, and with the cost of the codices and the sheer number of them and other supplements, even the digital ones being as they are makes this a bit tough to do these days
 

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I asked him to play a 1850 game this week but I will certainly ask to see the rules for his riptides before hand now and probably bring a more balanced list. I'm experimenting at the moment so I'd like to find a nice balanced 1850 list for my February tournament...my search continues
Well, bear in mind that that same Riptide can also fire a S6, Torrent 6" flamer, too--that's AP3 Heavy 1, or AP2 Heavy 2 Gets Hot. So it can not only melt any vehicle with 3 S8 shots that also apply a Haywire hit each (3+D3 if Nova Charging it), it can also deal with any single infantry squad by dual AP2 Baleflamering in any direction. After Swoop-jumping like an MC, so the limited mini-torrent and 12" S8/Haywire guns limited range is less meaningful.

But oh no, it's not broken (loyal Tau players insist), since it costs 33% more than a normal Riptide and has one fewer wound! Forget that any unit that gets within 36" of it gets melted, unequivocally, and it's a hard counter to every single unit type in the game. You can shoot at it with lascannons, right?
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Well, bear in mind that that same Riptide can also fire a S6, Torrent 6" flamer, too--that's AP3 Heavy 1, or AP2 Heavy 2 Gets Hot. So it can not only melt any vehicle with 3 S8 shots that also apply a Haywire hit each (3+D3 if Nova Charging it), it can also deal with any single infantry squad by dual AP2 Baleflamering in any direction. After Swoop-jumping like an MC, so the limited mini-torrent and 12" S8/Haywire guns limited range is less meaningful.
This is exactly what two of them were! You are the all knowing and powerful Mossy :) I'm think centurions with grav-cannons and drop pods with grav guns as I don't have too many lascannons...oh how I miss my Steel Legion :(
 

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Low model-count in Centurions means that your opponent can only get 6 S6 AP2 hits on you, assuming they don't get hot at all--your squad might actually survive the volley from one of them. Well, part of your squad. A mini or two, though no invuln hurts, there (assuming no 4+ power from Tigurius). And they have a 24" jump vs your 24" range totally: they can jump in and mini-torrent from out of your whole range.

And that's only one of your opponent's two of them.

(aren't I just a little ray of sunshine w/r/t this unit?)
 
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