Warhammer 40k Forum and Wargaming Forums banner

1 - 7 of 7 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,247 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Lords
------
Supreme Sorceress:
Level 4, Lore of Shadow, Sacrificial Dagger, Talisman of Preservation

Heroes
--------
Master:
Battle-Standard, Dawn-Stone, Whip of Agony, Mundane Armor

Cauldron of Blood

Sorceress:
Level 2, Dark Lore, Tome of Furion, Pendant of Khaeleth, Dark Pegasus

Core
-----
Warriors: 30-Un.
Full Command, Shields

Repeater Crossbowmen: 20-Un.
Full Command, Shields

Black Ark Corsairs: 30-Un.
Full Command, Sea Serpent Standard

Special
--------
Shades: 5-Un.
Additional Hand Weapon

Shades 5-Un.
Additional Hand Weapon

Black-Guard: 20-Un.
Full Command, Banner of Murder

Rare
-----
War Hydra

War Hydra


So, any criticisms, advice, etc.? I'm somewhat constrained by the models I have, but I do have a few extra Cold One Knights, an assassin model, an extra character model for a Dreadlord/Master, 10 more Repeater Crossbowmen, two Bolt Throwers, and a converted Chariot.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
28 Posts
Have crossbow units of 10 with only a musician. 5 wide 2 deep. gives you more flexible fire power. the musician lets you reform and still shoot. seems a bit small for the points.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,247 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
The reason I have them in a 20-man unit is because of two of the scenarios, namely Blood and Glory, and Watchtower. In Watchtower, I'll want to have the RXBs in 20-man to fit in the watchtower, while in B&G I'll want to have the extra banner.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
885 Posts
I'm not sold at all on shades. I'd play RBTs over shades. Also, you need some mobility to go after war machines. That means a unit of dark riders, maybe also a unit of harpies. For some reason, your army looks small for 3000. I'd look at Lore of Metal for the Lvl 4. The buffs to AS and +1 to hit and shooting can be extremely valuable.

DE core is still somewhat weak.

BTW, if I play DE (may play Warrriors given open lists and no comp of Ard Boys). I'm looking at running a COK block with BOHG (ASF banner) and with a stubborn and well-protected dreadlord and protected BSB (re-roll at LD 10 to avoid stupidity) and use the Cauldron ward save and MR buffs to protect the unit until it gets into combat. It moves faster, hits harder, and generates more CR and VPs than BG.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,247 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
I'm not sold at all on shades. I'd play RBTs over shades. Also, you need some mobility to go after war machines. That means a unit of dark riders, maybe also a unit of harpies. For some reason, your army looks small for 3000. I'd look at Lore of Metal for the Lvl 4. The buffs to AS and +1 to hit and shooting can be extremely valuable.
The Shades are for anti-warmachine, and in the games I've played with them, they've performed that role admirably. Dark Riders are just too many points for too few benefits. It's basicaly another 8 inch-move after the first, with a minus to ballistic skill, less utility charging warmachines, but fulfill core requirements. Also, Shades have a -1 to hit them. With skirmishers moving and shooting now, there's not much real advantage. As for magic, I'm taking shadow because of the good synergy with Dark lore, and itself. Also, the casting values are lower as I recall, so good synergy with Sacrificial Dagger as well.

DE core is still somewhat weak.
What do you mean? They were pretty good in 7th, and Repeater Crossbowmen have gotten better. Warriors also fill out my list with some much needed men.

BTW, if I play DE (may play Warrriors given open lists and no comp of Ard Boys). I'm looking at running a COK block with BOHG (ASF banner) and with a stubborn and well-protected dreadlord and protected BSB (re-roll at LD 10 to avoid stupidity) and use the Cauldron ward save and MR buffs to protect the unit until it gets into combat. It moves faster, hits harder, and generates more CR and VPs than BG.
Too many points, IMO. I would consider putting the BSB on a Cold One if I had enough time to properly convert a model however. Also, of course that unit would be all that, it costs a bucketton!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
885 Posts
On the last point, you have 3000 points to work with, so the cost of the COK unit is not that bad and the re-roll on stupidity tests with a BSB running nearby (not in the unit, on a dark steed) with a subborn, difficult to kill LD10 general/dreadlord makes the unit very tough and almost unkillable with a Cauldron blessing and some MR. It runs synergistically with the hydras better than the BG unit.

The rules for warmachines are different in 8th edition. Now, they are toughness of the machine against shooting. In my metagame, shades just never get deployed close enough to kill warmachines before they get charged, shot up or die to magic.

Agreed on DR being a lot of points, but they still can harass and shoot and bait and flee. At least look at a cheap unit of harpies, a unit of 6 can take out a cannon or warp lightning cannon or bolt thrower or stone thrower on turn two and will force enemy to either target it or die. The vanguard move allows them to get out to a place to threaten exposed warmachines and run past flanks and charge on bottom or turn one or on turn 2.

From a points value stand point, RXB with shields is the best core unit due to ability to shoot in two ranks and the AP shots. Corsairs make sense as a screening force with the SSS banner, but are otherwise not very effective, so I only run one unit and rarely run them beyond 21 models (two ranks or three ranks by 7 when an extra rank makes sense for stubborness). I'm finding my corsairs get killed a lot but benefit from the RHB due to ability to move and shoot one turn and short range stand and shoot (qucik to fire) on the next turn and then take a charge.

Consider a cheap flaming banner for the spearmen. It gives fear to war beasts and can shut down regen.

Lore of Metal helps a lot with warriors of chaos, Lizardmen, soem VC builds, and empire (kills steam tanks) which will be seen a lot in my area in 8th edition. It also has an augment that boosts the shooting (+1 to hit plus AP plus magical) and another that adds to the armour save (5+ scaly skin) that makes the BG unit and core units far more resilient. The final spell in Lore of Metal is one of the most potent and effective I've seen. I've played with and against lore of shadow and have just not been as impressed with it; the casting costs are high for a lot of the best spells and they require combos (which are tough to get off reliably in 8th edition winds of magic) to be as effective.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,247 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
On the last point, you have 3000 points to work with, so the cost of the COK unit is not that bad and the re-roll on stupidity tests with a BSB running nearby (not in the unit, on a dark steed) with a subborn, difficult to kill LD10 general/dreadlord makes the unit very tough and almost unkillable with a Cauldron blessing and some MR. It runs synergistically with the hydras better than the BG unit.
Well, I do have some areas I could get rid of some points in. The Corsairs are a particular area, as I know they aren't as effective as some other choices.

The rules for warmachines are different in 8th edition. Now, they are toughness of the machine against shooting. In my metagame, shades just never get deployed close enough to kill warmachines before they get charged, shot up or die to magic.
Generally, they're a distraction, too cheap to really be worthwhile to kill, but annoying enough to make the enemy want to get rid of them. One turn drawing some shooting is all they need to do. Plus, they can charge in and kill something. :)

Agreed on DR being a lot of points, but they still can harass and shoot and bait and flee. At least look at a cheap unit of harpies, a unit of 6 can take out a cannon or warp lightning cannon or bolt thrower or stone thrower on turn two and will force enemy to either target it or die. The vanguard move allows them to get out to a place to threaten exposed warmachines and run past flanks and charge on bottom or turn one or on turn 2.
Hehe, I have looked at Harpies, but I hate the official models, and don't have the money to buy a couple boxes of them anyways. In future competitive lists, I'll try to use them more though.

From a points value stand point, RXB with shields is the best core unit due to ability to shoot in two ranks and the AP shots. Corsairs make sense as a screening force with the SSS banner, but are otherwise not very effective, so I only run one unit and rarely run them beyond 21 models (two ranks or three ranks by 7 when an extra rank makes sense for stubborness). I'm finding my corsairs get killed a lot but benefit from the RHB due to ability to move and shoot one turn and short range stand and shoot (qucik to fire) on the next turn and then take a charge.
In my experience, my Corsairs tend to work best charging into shooters, where their 4+ save against shooting is quite wonderful. I don't have them assembled as RHB's, otherwise I would use them as such, but I have found them to be a good use for the magic lores I've taken. Corsairs are probably one of the best recipients in the Dark Elf list for Okkams Mindrazor. :)

Consider a cheap flaming banner for the spearmen. It gives fear to war beasts and can shut down regen.
I'm surprised I didn't actually think of this, and I'll probably be adding it to my list, thank you.

Lore of Metal helps a lot with warriors of chaos, Lizardmen, soem VC builds, and empire (kills steam tanks) which will be seen a lot in my area in 8th edition. It also has an augment that boosts the shooting (+1 to hit plus AP plus magical) and another that adds to the armour save (5+ scaly skin) that makes the BG unit and core units far more resilient. The final spell in Lore of Metal is one of the most potent and effective I've seen. I've played with and against lore of shadow and have just not been as impressed with it; the casting costs are high for a lot of the best spells and they require combos (which are tough to get off reliably in 8th edition winds of magic) to be as effective.
Well, my local metagame is a lot different than yours, but I do agree on a lot of the points. I think you're discounting Shadow a bit much however. The debuffs are very effective in both protecting and adding to the offensive capability of my units. Reducing an enemy's WS by d3 can make it so enemy elites hit me on 5's and I hit them on 3's in some cases, minus d3 toughness makes monsters much easier, and also makes both my Black-Guard and Corsairs get a shitton of wounds in. Minus strength means that (gasp) my elves might actually live. In general, I'd take Metal despite all this, if it weren't for the large CoK block I have to counter good armor saves, and have the potential for an even better choice for taking out large hordes than Final Transmutation, the infinitely good Soul Stealer.
 
1 - 7 of 7 Posts
Top