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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
EDIT: Scroll to post #10 for an updated version (but basically the same)

So, here it is:

Chaos Lord with Chaos Runeshield, Chaos Runesword, Helm of Many Eyes and Mark of Nurgle
355


This guy takes challenges so that Vilitch doesn't have to, and he'll probably kill more or less anything stupid enough to try. I love the Mark of Nurgle/Runesword combo, unless you're WS6 or above, you're hitting him on 5s... I normally prefer the weapon of ASF over Helm, but in this case I decided to risk it.

Vilitch the Curseling
395


For those of you who don't know, Vilitch is a Level 4 Tzeentch caster, and whenever someone fails to dispel his casts, he gets additional power dice equal to how many dice they tried to dispel with. Likewise if someone fails to cast a spell in their turn, he gets additional dispel dice equal to the power dice used. Nasty.

36 Warriors of Chaos with Mark of Nurgle, Shield, Halberds and Command with Banner of Rage
707


I've had great success with this unit in the past, it's my main staple.

16 Warriors of Chaos with Mark of Khorne, Additional Hand Weapons and Command
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16 Warriors of Chaos with Mark of Khorne, Additional Hand Weapons and Command
316


My "killy killy" units. Hopefully people will semi-ignore them in favour of the big block with 2 characters, or the big gribblies, letting them swing in with their 41 attacks in 2 ranks of 8. I'm kinda flexible on the weapon options though, halberds or shields might be a possibility.

6 Dragon Ogres with Great Weapons and Champion
482


Given that my Warriors are somewhat suboptimal against really hard targets like 1+ save knights or Dragons, I thought I should fix that. 4 wounds apiece and 19 S7 attacks (plus stomps) makes me think they'll really ruin someone's day. I grabbed a champion for them because I think it's really funny to challenge someone's hero with a 4-wound S7 champion and slap him into the ground. :laugh:

Shaggoth with Additional Hand Weapon
275


The "fixer". If I think another unit needs support, this guy goes and fixes it. Failing that, he finds something squishy and hits it until it stops moving. He also attracts fire away from my infantry because people think he's a lot more dangerous than he actually is.

Chaos War Shrine with Mark of Tzeentch
150


Makes the big unit of Warriors even better, and tarpits anything that gets past the Dragonkin. 3+ Ward ftw!

2992

I decided againt a BSB because the vast majority of my army that is likely to be in range is Frenzied. The Lord lets them have Ld 9 to restrain frenzy (in the rare case I would want to) so hopefully (touch wood) I won't fail too many. I considered making it entirely non-magical with an exalted hero in each of the Khorne units, but it's simply not viable at 3000 points.

Does anyone have suggestions as to what they found works really well for them? I'd like to keep it "Warrior horde plus support" as much as possible, but I'll consider anything within that framework. Thanks for reading! :)
 

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I like the concept and it has a decent theme but the lack of balance troubles me. You really need one or two good lvl 2 sorc with stuff (puppet, bloodcurdling roar, scroll) and casting Tzeentch magic with MoT and protection (new shield against shooting, war save against ranged attacks).

I'd balance out the warrior blocks more. I'm finding that larger warriors hordes don't get a lot of value and can run through weaker horde armies anyway. I'd cut down the sizes to 14, 14 and 21 and use those points for other stuff. You still need something with more speed and flanking and to go after war machines. I really like Marauder Horsemen which can fill out the core requirement with axes and flails for quicktostrike and to take out smaller skirmisher units and war machines. A small unit of war hounds can act on flanks as well.

I been running chaos ogre blocks due to their being cheaper, able to carry a mark/standard/muso/champ and the 3 attacks maxing out the second rank supporting attacks but at 3000 DOs (which have always been a favorite of mine) is a decent choice. The reason for a BSB is to re-roll break and frenzy tests. You don't want to go running off in a frenzied charge at the wrong time.

Unfortunately, where i play 3000 points is rare and special characters are generally not legal (but I love him). We are seeing a lot of 2500 and 2400 (some mention of 2800) points standards.
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
I like the concept and it has a decent theme but the lack of balance troubles me.
Well in most of my previous armies, I've tried to balance combat and shooting (I've mainly been a 40k player)... except WoC don't have any shooting! :laugh: So in this case, what exactly do you mean by "balance"? Magic vs combat? Fast vs slow? Resilience vs Damage dealing?

You really need one or two good lvl 2 sorc with stuff (puppet, bloodcurdling roar, scroll) and casting Tzeentch magic with MoT and protection (new shield against shooting, war save against ranged attacks).
I figured that Vilitch was enough to hold my own in the magic phase, I really don't want to go magic heavy, and he seemed a better alternative to a level 2 (or even 2 level 2s with the way magic is done now). The lack of a scroll is slightly annoying, but I find that people are very conservative with their dice these days - in which case I can dispel on even grounds with most other level 4s - or they're using all 6 dice and hoping for Total Power (yes, I remember the *first* magic cards...) and a scroll wouldn't be much use anyway.

I've never really liked Roar. 20 points to deal, on average, one wound at 12"? Is that really worth it? At 12" I'm fairly certain I'd rather charge with my Warriors than try for one wound and get charged myself next turn. Maybe if he was on a Disc or something, but I'm really not interested in a caster being my army General. I could possibly be swayed into taking a level 4 with some gear instead of Vilitch though - and save myself a few points. It's just that the last game I played with him he got every single spell in the Lore of Tzeentch off in one turn which impressed me, to say the least!

I'd balance out the warrior blocks more. I'm finding that larger warriors hordes don't get a lot of value and can run through weaker horde armies anyway. I'd cut down the sizes to 14, 14 and 21 and use those points for other stuff. You still need something with more speed and flanking and to go after war machines. I really like Marauder Horsemen which can fill out the core requirement with axes and flails for quicktostrike and to take out smaller skirmisher units and war machines. A small unit of war hounds can act on flanks as well.
Well I normally run a block of 30 instead of 36, I couldn't really find anything to do with the spare points apart from buy more Warriors. I may well consider the Horsemen as a support unit. 180 points for 10 Horsemen with Axes and Command... hmm. I just don't like the models. I might see what I can do with the new Seeker of Slaanesh models or something similar.

I been running chaos ogre blocks due to their being cheaper, able to carry a mark/standard/muso/champ and the 3 attacks maxing out the second rank supporting attacks but at 3000 DOs (which have always been a favorite of mine) is a decent choice. The reason for a BSB is to re-roll break and frenzy tests. You don't want to go running off in a frenzied charge at the wrong time.
I was thinking a unit of 6 DOs might be overkill, but the more I think about it the more I think that taking a smaller unit is pointless. 6 is the amount needed to cause sufficient damage to make them worth taking. Ogres are an option, but I really don't like either the Chaos or the Ogre Kingdom models, and if I was to use them for the same purpose, they'd be 45 points per model plus a 30 point mark and command makes them 350 points with a much worse statline - less S, less wounds, slower, less Ld (important since they'll be out of range of the general) and less WS. If it was 2k points instead then I would deffo consider it, but at 3k I think I can splash out a little! :angel:

Unfortunately, where i play 3000 points is rare and special characters are generally not legal (but I love him). We are seeing a lot of 2500 and 2400 (some mention of 2800) points standards.
Well 3k is basically going to be my full army, once I hit it then I'm not going to get any more models, which is why I'm asking some advice, so I don't have to resell/rebuy stuff later! I already have 10 Chaos knights I don't think I'm going to use again... :(

Let me know what you think of my responses, and thanks for taking the time to comment!
 

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For the list, Is it not illegal to have The Runesword and shield, and the Helm, thats 125pts of items. So obviously I would say drop the helm, hes I8 so agaisnt move things, including other lords he will be striking first. Even if something gets the drop on him his save and T5 should save him.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Good catch!

/retard moment
 

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Yeah, some builds are just to good :p and its ok, just noticed my spelling up there was a bit of a retard moment!
 

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The list overall looks fine. The only thing that stands out is that the Lord is packing too many points in magic items-- the Runesword and the Runeshield together are 100 points, his entire allowance. He probably doesn't need the Runeshield-- while it's good, if you've got Always Strikes First going on with a Chaos Lord, there's not likely to be any return attacks anyway that would be effected by the Runeshield. You could switch it out for the Charmed Shield or Enchanted Shield if you really want a magic shield, though-- both are equally good for characters that are going to end up in challenges.
 

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Not to Nit Pick but how do you calculate 41 attacks in two ranks of 8? I get 8x3=24+8=32.
No, I also get 41 attacks form the unit: 2A basic, frenzy (MoK), AHW gives 4 attacks each for front rank, 1 attack each from the second rank and there's a champion. So 33 attacks from front rank, 8 from second.

Really gotta wonder if its worth using units of 16: the second rank basically gives you nothing. I suggest you playtest a few games and note how many casualties you take before the unit manages its aims.... then reduce the 2nd rank to that many. IE- if you only normally take 3-4 casualties while storming a flank then take units of ~12 instead (but keep the 8 wide front rank). You certainly dont need the rank bonus (I would ignore it for enemy steadfast- if they are down to 1 rank they'll be dead next turn regardless of if they break... and if they are too large to break next turn it doesnt matter anyway) and the few extra attacks do nothing for you.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Thanks for the comments everyone, here's the new edition bearing all of it in mind:

Chaos Lord with Chaos Runeshield, Chaos Runesword and Mark of Nurgle
330

Vilitch the Curseling
395

30 Chaos Warriors with Halberds and Shields, Command, Mark of Nurgle and Banner of Rage
605pts

14 Warriors of Chaos with Mark of Khorne, Additional Hand Weapons and Command
284

14 Warriors of Chaos with Mark of Khorne, Additional Hand Weapons and Command
284

10 Marauder Horsemen with Throwing Axes, Command and Mark of Slaanesh
190

6 Dragon Ogres with Great Weapons and Champion
482

Shaggoth with Additional Hand Weapon
275

Chaos War Shrine with Mark of Tzeentch
150

2995 total

I take the Runeshield because my opponents include an Ogre Lord with the +3 Attacks sword, a Minotaur Lord with the same, a Tomb King with a 2-handed stick of death and a Vampire with a silly Lance/powers combo. None of which I am guaranteed to kill in one round of combat.

However just checking the rulebook I found a silly little trick I thought would work: You have a Lord with Mark of Tzeentch and Armour of Morrslieb, and stood next to him an Exalted Hero (maybe the BSB?) or even a Sorcerer (although the Sorc is better with actual caster items) with the Chaos Runeshield. Make sure that when you charge that they are both in base-to-base contact with the enemy you want to challenge and hey presto, the Exalted Hero removes the enemy magic weapon while not having to risk himself, and the Lord has a 3+ Ward against all attacks against him in the challenge! Bit underhanded, but what the hey... Chaos doesn't fight fair!
 
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