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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
hello I am looking for help..
I am wanting to do a pre heresy 30k army/legion but I am having a hard time deciding what army to do and what army fits my play style. I am looking for an army that are a good all around army with good shooting and close combat and good vehicle combat. That had a primarch that is hard to kill and has good close combat and possibly ranged combat .. Can anyone Help me please
 

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Hey, first off, welcome to the 30k scene!

A word of advice before I go any further. For me, more than 40k, 30k is about a balance of fluff and tabletop ability. For example, you get more people playing the non-top-tier legions because they love the fluff/models than I think you do in 40k. Equally, if you are hoping for some game breaking tactics you are unlikely to find them here. There are some legions that are better than others but none that are so good that you may as well pack up when someone brings them, like you would with Eldar or something. Overall, it's much more balanced and generally a more even-keel mindset than 40k I feel.

Now that that preamble is out of the way, let's talk legions. At the moment the ones that probably best fit your bill are loyalist legions, namely the Imperial Fists or the Ultramarines. Both have quite good shooting and the Templars/Suzerines are murderous psychos in combat. Both Dorn and Guilliman are ok Primarch, probably not the hardest to kill but also not baby harp seals either. Guilliman is probably better than Dorn but the Imperial Fists Legiones Astartes is probably better than the Ultramarines.

On the traitors side, the Alpha Legion are a popular choice since you have the option of 4 special rules including infiltrate or tank hunter that you can give to your whole army, which can make them pretty potent. Iron warriors are a solid choice too and with all Volkite Terror Squad the Night Lords aren't slouches either.

Basically there's a couple from each 'side' that fit your brief, mainly because apart from a few special units all the legions get access to the same things so most of their ability in combat/shooting come from any rules they have and even if you doesn't have one rule the other does, then they both still have the same guns. I would have a look at the fluff of the legions and which ones have model/a paint scheme you like and then go from there because, odds are, your legion can do what you want it too regardless of which one it is.
 

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Not that I dislike 30k at all, but isn't it more balanced because everyone almost has identical armies? I know there's little tweaks here and there for flavour, but marines are marines only seems to go so far with me.
 

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Rattlehead
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Not that I dislike 30k at all, but isn't it more balanced because everyone almost has identical armies? I know there's little tweaks here and there for flavour, but marines are marines only seems to go so far with me.
Nah, Legiones Astartes is pretty huge and the Rites of War (kinda like alternative Detachments) as well as the Legion-specific Troops can make all the difference. I think there's the potential to break the game just as much as in 40k (hello, Lorgar guaranteed to know Invisibility casting on a 3+), but 30k tends to attract a different playerbase who are less into the whole 'I am the greatest warhamsé who ever was or will be' mindset.
 

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(hello, Lorgar guaranteed to know Invisibility casting on a 3)
Sorry Lorgar's been nerfed he can't pick Telepathy spells anymore as per an FAQ.

All I can say to the original poster is not so much as pick the legion that plays well but pick one which you enjoy colour wise as you will paint a lot of it!

Plus if marines aren't your thing there is always Solar Auxilia or Mechanicum to consider.
 

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Not that I dislike 30k at all, but isn't it more balanced because everyone almost has identical armies? I know there's little tweaks here and there for flavour, but marines are marines only seems to go so far with me.
Its [more] balanced because everyone has access to (basically) the same set of wargear. Its interesting because all the legions play pretty differently due to their legion specific rules and units. Its really not marine vs. marine at anything more than the surface level.
 

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I guess I'll give the Legion specific stuff another read to see how they tweak things. I noticed some different units in what I read over already as well as unique wargear, but calling this anything but a Marine party seems odd.

In reference to the topic of the thread though, think some of you more experienced 30k'ers out there could maybe list the Legions available and cliff notes on their strengths/weaknesses?
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Your description of what you want is a little vague - you've said that you want good vehicles, good CC, good ranged combat, a tough primarch who's good at CC and ranged. You can't have it all
I should of been more detailed ..
I want a primarch who is able to take a lot of damage and able to survive most anything thrown at him and once he gets close is able to obliterate anything he goes up against..

A legion that is a good front line assault legion that can deal a lot of damage and survive and has good weapons skills possibly vehicle skills
 

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I should of been more detailed ..
I want a primarch who is able to take a lot of damage and able to survive most anything thrown at him and once he gets close is able to obliterate anything he goes up against..

A legion that is a good front line assault legion that can deal a lot of damage and survive and has good weapons skills possibly vehicle skills
Emperor's Children, IMHO.
 

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Rattlehead
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Death Guard, Iron Hands or Salamanders are probably the army for you. I'm going to assume you're bringing the Legion-specific Rite of War for maximum flavour.

Death Guard have powerful templates (all Flamers can get Shred and Gets Hot for free), can bring the 30k equivalent of Devastators as Troops, have Move Through Cover, and Independant Characters can buy fricking Rad Grenades for 10pts which makes them scarier in assault than you'd imagine from an army of Devastators. However, you can't Run or Flat Out, and you can only bring one Fast Attack choice which can get you outmaneuvered, especially by more mobile Legions like Emperor's Children, Sons of Horus or Night Lords. Mortarion is tough as hell (T7 W7 with 2+/4++ and re-rolling his IWND) and gives all Frag Grenades, Frag Missiles and Havoc Launchers in your army Poison 4+ which for Missile Launchers is usually going to be a re-roll To Wound. He's got a pretty strong Str8 AP2 Instant Death Unwieldy scythe and a cool anti-tank pistol. He's very resilient but Plasmas and Meltas can strip wounds off of him pretty quickly.

Iron Hands have a super powerful Legions Astartes rule; -1 Strength to all guns fired at them. They'll win any Legion vs Legion shoot-out presuming equal forces other than different Legion rules. However, they get a bunch of restrictions to compensate for that very powerful benefit; they have to take a Ld check before Running or Sweeping Advancing (SA is a big deal since nobody in 30k has ATSKNF), and can't Go To Ground. They also can't have more Jump Infantry, Bikes and Jetbikes than they have Infantry units, so if you had your heart set on a Jetbike army, they're not for you. Rite of War gives them Stubborn in their own deployment zone, anyone who can take a Flamer can take a Graviton Gun instead (not the same as a 40k Grav-Gun; a Haywire gun that makes you take a Str test or take a wound allowing saves, so mainly an anti-tank gun that can do anti-infantry in a pinch), Tanks get Outflank, and you can bring Mechanicus robots in Elites. Downsides are only one Fast Attack choice, and only one Consul (think specialist HQs - Librarians, Chaplains etc. but there are more types in 30k - other than the Techmarine equivalent). Ferrus Manus is a pretty cool guy; gives all vehicles with at least one AV13+ facing IWND, is very tough against shooting because of the -1 strength of shots against him and his 2+/3++, and has more guns than most Primarchs. Has an AP1 Thunder Hammer that doesn't have Unwieldy.

Salamanders are also slow and tough; not as tough as Iron Hands, but braver. They re-roll a single D6 on failed morale checks, auto-pass Fear (suck it, Night Lords!), have +1 Strength on their Flamers (and with their unique units they can take a SHITLOAD of Flamers) and enemy Flamers have -1 Strength, but they don't add their Initiative to their Sweeping Advances (so you basically can't Sweep, which sucks) and you have -1" on Run and Charge moves which can be a pain when trying to get onto objectives or charge. Can't bring Moritats (think John Woo as a Space Marine suicide gunner) or Destroyer Squads (Marines with dual pistols who like giving people cancer). Rite of War gives their vehicles 5++ saves against Melta, Flamer, Plasma and Volkite making them a fair bit tougher, Multi-Meltas/Meltaguns/Melta Pistols get Master-Crafted, you can bring some pyromaniac dual-wielding flamer Marines as troops, and you get Move Through Cover but you can't Deep Strike, you gotta have more Troops than Heavy Support and Fast Attack combined (can be a big problem trying to fit ranged anti-tank in your list, but when you can spam Master-Crafted Melta in Troops it's not as big a deal as it is for, say, Night Lords). Characters are tough because they can all bring Eternal Warrior (almost exclusive to Salamanders other than on Special Characters in 30k), and can bring special Storm Shields that are a 5++ or +1 Invuln if you already have one (so Cataphractii Terminators, which soon everyone in the world will have because they come in the Betrayal at Calth set, will go to 3++). You can make people hate you in a front-line fight because you build units of 2-wound Terminators with 2+/3++/Feel No Pain. Vulkan is super tough (halves the strength rounding down of any Plasmas/Flamers/Meltas/Volkites shot at him, which makes him straight-up immune to Plasmas and Volkite), gives all Salamanders +1 Leadership (making them the second-bravest Legion after Word Bearers), and royally fucks up hordes which is unusual for a Primarch who are usually better at killing non-Primarch characters and elite units.
 

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Jeepers
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Not to hijack the thread but if I wanted to get the Night Lord rules which book do I get? Do I get the horus Heresy book or the Legios Astartes Crusade Army List
The rules and stuff for them are int he Istavaan Camaign book, the basis for any Legion army, just pick up the Red book, bassically just buy the red book bundle from FW and your set with all you need for a Night Lords army.
 

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Yeah, one for the actually generic Legion army list and the other for the Night Lord specific stuff
 

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Jeepers
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dang it, I suppose cheapness doesn't get you far in 40k and even less in 30k ;)
See I disagree with that, the Legion book is pretty damned good. Everything you need to field a Legion army is in that book sure some of the newer models aren't in it but the core stuff? It's all there. You can find various summaries of the Legion specific Rites of War online so you don't need to buy the Istvaan Legion book straight away. Get that book and your sorted for the basics and you can build from there.
 
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