[Whizzwang]

Frog + Rumination, Cogitate, Cupped Hands, Lore of Shadow

Frog + Rumination, Soul of Stone, Obsidian Lodestone, Lore of Shadow

Skink Chief + Ancient Steg, Warspear

Skink Chief + Ancient Steg, BSB, Dagger of Sotek

66 Saurus + Command

3 Salamander Team
3 Salamander Team
2 Salamander Team
2 Salamander Team

2996 points total

Both Frogs join the Saurus and use Lore of Shadow to cripple the hell out of anything that looks like getting in combat. The stegs and salamanders hover close by and annihilate stuff that gets too close. The new template rules for "anything touched" makes Salamanders lethal with the -3 save.

You cogitate any wizard with dwellers / sun / transformatiuon etc to make sure they can't pump 8 dice and Irresistable. To keep you r one big unit from being blown up.

 

[Tim/Steve]

Well it might have worked in 7th, but not such a good army in 8th. Having 2 slaans is only a tiny amount better then having 1 slaan, with the noticable difference of being able to cast the same spell twice... but on raw power its noting much (and very expensive). Next up is the sallies- sure they'll do a very large amount of damage... but they'll do it once after that they cant use their breathe again for the rest of the battle.

So really you'll be hitting the opponent with everything you have and hoping that when the dust clears they're dead... because if they are still standing you're in serious trouble (I was getting flashes of Independence Day for the first half of that, but suddenly V for Vendetta entered my head instead...)

Personally I would make it a more standard army by removing a slaan, giving him temple guard (a nice big unit) and splitting the saurus into 2. The sallies might be fun to run still, but I would generally recommend razordons over sallies- mebbe split them, to have the dakka hitting the enemy every turn but then the one turn bonfire to really smash through the nastier enemy units.

 

[Jack96]

Salamanders can do their attack as many times as they want cause in the errata it says that a salamanders special attack is not a breath weapon
but I would change at least one of the sallies for razordons cause at least they can stand and shoot and I agree with tim/Steve you need temple guard
and with 2 lore of shadows you can decrease the enemies strenght and toughness by 2X D3 that's just sick

 

[Tim/Steve]

LOL, thats a crock is ever there was one- a massive dragon only has enough volatile chemicals in its throat to 'breathe' once, but sallies have an unlimitted supply.

Yeah, makes them pretty good in that case... but I would print out the FAQ and take it with you, no-one will believe that they keep burning otherwise. I still wouldnt take more then 2 units of them though; it'll be too hard to mnanouver more hten that to attack decently.

 

[Vaz]

You need 2 more core units.

And you cannot duplicate spells, either, so you cannot take 2 Lore of Shadow or Loremaster. Or, you can, but one of them won't know any spells.



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[Tim/Steve]

You need 2 more core units.

And you cannot duplicate spells, either, so you cannot take 2 Lore of Shadow or Loremaster. Or, you can, but one of them won't know any spells.

You need 3 non-character units... so he's fine, doesnt need to be core.

You can duplicate spells, but not if you roll for them. So if one slaan has loremaster then the other can roll the spells on that lore normally. Any spells that you 'choose' rather then roll can be duplicated... so loremaster and items that allow you to choose your spells are slightly outside the normal restrictions.

 

[Vaz]

Note to self - read the rulebook.



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[Whizzwang]

yeah as has been said characters that may choose there spells are not taken into consideration when determinig random spells. loremaster is effectively free. So yes, you can in fact stack loremasters of the same lore

on a side note that's loremaster Tzeentch Herlads for 165 a pop. now THAT is sick and twisted. So that's Shadow debuff stacking from 5 guys in 3k.. all your units have straight 1's for stat lines.

Contemplating going to Death frogs and double stacking Doom + Darkness for -6 LD, then hitting things with a salamander for the instant panic on max LD4

 

[Karnox]

since when were skink chiefs able to be BSBs?
Also why sking chiefs? Why not put some priests on engine of the gods, way more effective.

And yeah, considering you will on average have 7 power dice a turn, having two frogs is a big waste, much better to save the points and get some more sauras, or even better, split the sauras into 2 units of 30, and replace the 2nd slan with a unit of 36 temple guard for your slann and line em up 10x4
Or taking a scar veteran with some knights isnt too bad either.

 

[Whizzwang]

The big unit of saurus is not there to be effective in combat. It's there to be 66 extra wounds for the 2 frogs.

You debuff the fuck out of the opposing army with shadow or death.

Assuming you take death power dice are not an issue even on an avergae of 7 when they get a free dice per spell and they get power dice back from death spells that damage. A single Frog can cast the entire lore of death on a pool of 3 dice. 2 Frogs isn't a waste as I don't really want to cast the entire lore, I just want to stack the same spell a couple of times.

The whole point of this army is to deploy tight in a corner, wait for you to come to it, and then force you of the table by either removing your leadership and forcing panic and terror tests. or by going shadow and forcing the statline of all your models to 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 then using the Laniph + Bjuna to destroy characters.


Skink Chief BSB = page 93. "One Slaan Mage Priest, Saurus Skar Veteran or Skink Chief may carry the Army Battle Standard"

Chiefs are taken since they are actually better than engines. The warspear is filthy when you consider that steg is doing 2d6+ impact, 7 Skink attacks (vs debuffed via shadow units, they probably hit and wound on 3+, 2+) 4 steg attacks AND a thunderstomp. That kills WAY more than Burning Alignment.

This is not designed to be a well balanced flufy army with nice units. This is designed to be an extremely powerful glass cannon that destroys people fast.

In testing so far it has annihilated everything thrown at it. including 3 or 4 lists that were built to try and kill it.

Taking down 66 saurus that have a 3+ Armour, 6+ Parry, 4+ Ward vs magic by shooting at it is damn near impossible. You HAVE to move towards it to get it in ombat, that's when 10 salamanders open up all kinds of whoop ass on you.

You can't even final transmutation or 13th spell or gateway them since the wizard with the power spell removes 6's from his casting and I just dispel you.

Look at it again and see the synergy. It's a very powerful build. It's not ALL powerful, but it's scary as hell.

 

[NagashKhemmler]

LOL, thats a crock is ever there was one- a massive dragon only has enough volatile chemicals in its throat to 'breathe' once, but sallies have an unlimitted supply.

Yeah, makes them pretty good in that case... but I would print out the FAQ and take it with you, no-one will believe that they keep burning otherwise. I still wouldnt take more then 2 units of them though; it'll be too hard to mnanouver more hten that to attack decently.

It is stupid given the price tag on dragons. 300+ points with one breathe weapon, esp given the amount of nasty ranged stuff that can really ruin their day...

 

[Jack96]

PIT OF SHADES it'll take out 15 saurus at a time and a slann or 2

 

[Whizzwang]

PIT OF SHADES it'll take out 15 saurus at a time and a slann or 2

not when you can't force an irresistable it won't.


As for the breath attack.

Salamanders are only S3 breath weapons whereas Dragons are S5+. Sallies also cannot use their weapon in combat for a free 2D6 hits that count towards combat res. They also don't get Thunderstomp.

A dragon has movement 20", a MUCH better statline all round, in combat gets a stupid number of attacks, 2D6 hits from breath, hits from a tricked out rider, AND a thunderstomp.

Comparing both based entirely on how they use their breath attack is quite frankly illinformed and ridiculous.

 

[Vaz]

Tricked Out Rider usually costs Double that Value though.

On the other hand - Galrauch is a dream come true. 3 Breath Attacks, thank you kindly. Shame he's worse than a Star Dragon, for which I'll be more than happy to see him upgraded, thank you very much.



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[VeronaKid]

Whizzwang-

You played this build against any dwarf or empire gunline-type armies yet? While it looks like a really scary army, particularly against several specific armies (beloved HE's included), I would think it might have some trouble against ranged weaponry. I mean, if the opponent ALSO had the ability to castle-up, you'd be hard-pressed to make it across the table to engage cannons, mortars, etc. And that's the last place you'd want the froggies, anyway.

Just curious. Nice job breaking an army in 8th already. :so_happy:

 

[Whizzwang]

Vs Gunline is a hard match.

I'm curently 4 for 1 against gunlines in my favour.

You have to play it a lot more offensively and steam across the table with the sallies and stegs. The Saurus block is pretty damn resilient so unless they pour everything into destroying it, you're pretty safe for a few turns. It basically comes down to, how fast can I rip your leadership off you and start burning you with the sallies.

That being said, very few people have realised the insane power of mortars compared to cannons and I haven't faced a fully laid out mortar force yet... can't say as I'm looking forward to it either, I expect to lose rather quickly against that one.

 

[Darkness007]

It seems to me that giving both Slann the same lore is something of a waste. While being able to cast a hex twice is nice, I’d think that you’d be able to get a lot more by gaining access to more spells. For example, using the lore of life and the lore of light together would allow you to cast earthblood, awakening of wood, flesh to stone, throne of vines, shield of thorns, the speed of light and Birona’s Timewarp all in the same turn due to their low casting costs (which allows to capitalize on your rumination). Sure they’ll counter some of it, but you can be sure getting off some excellent augments. Seeing as your fairly determined to play a single large unit of Saurus, I think it may make more sense to use augment spells rather than hex spells (after all, if you only have one unit, giving them +4 T is just as good as giving every enemy unit -4 S (apart from the armour piercing bit) and it’s a hell of a lot easier to cast a single defensive spell on the unit you want to protect than to cast hexes on every enemy unit in charge range). However, if its working for you, you probably don’t need to change it.

 

[Crimzzen]

A couple problems I see off the top of my head from other common cheesy builds.

What do you do against teclis or anything with book of Hoeth and purple sun? What do you do against anything power scrolled?

I don't see how this could stand up to a dwarf artillery line /w Thorek slowing everything down or an empire artillery spam with mass warrior priests/arch lector/lvl 4 wizard (waaaay too many dispel dice). Even something as simple as a steam tank can throw a nasty wrench into your list as even the stegs will need 6s to wound.

It definitely seems like a nasty glass cannon but your bound to run into the stuff I mentioned above.

The dual frog cannon its an interesting idea, I just think there are better 1 trick pony lists out there.

 

[Vaz]

Vs Gunline is a hard match.

I'm curently 4 for 1 against gunlines in my favour.

You have to play it a lot more offensively and steam across the table with the sallies and stegs. The Saurus block is pretty damn resilient so unless they pour everything into destroying it, you're pretty safe for a few turns. It basically comes down to, how fast can I rip your leadership off you and start burning you with the sallies.

That being said, very few people have realised the insane power of mortars compared to cannons and I haven't faced a fully laid out mortar force yet... can't say as I'm looking forward to it either, I expect to lose rather quickly against that one.

I always take Cannons to take out some retarded things like the Casket of Souls, Slaanesh Giants, Screaming Bells, and Ward Saveless Flying Monsters. There's nothing else in the army which is as effective - and now that there's no competition for special slots, I can take all 6/8 artillery weapons.

On the other hand, I now never bother with Hellblasters. Too random, whereas Helstorms and Mortars just tear apart hordes.



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[Whizzwang]

What do you do against teclis or anything with book of Hoeth and purple sun?

tell him to rol 2d6-toughness wounds and laugh as he shrivels up:biggrin: