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Hello everybody,
As I told it to you in my presentation I try to establish/constitute an army for 30K / 40K . I have create 7 lists which/who seems to me good on the paper but I know not what that can give in the game
And now I need your lights and of your knowledge of the game to use has to choose THE list has to set knowing that I am especially going to play against the NECRON and against the TAU and that the guys with whom I play are players of tournaments and thus possess list méga optimized
I am going to post 1 or 2 lists in it messages and the others in the following message.
Beforehand thank you has all for your help,assistant, your advice, councils, your comment and especially for the time when to dedicate me to you

Death Guard Legion Astartes abilities
Remorseless
Sons of Barbarus
chem-mun

Tactical squad rule of:Fury of the legion


N°1 Full Artillery = 1972 pts
Troops
20 mens Tactical squad with vexilia* and nuncio-vox** 270 pts
10 mens Tactical squad with vexilia* and nuncio-vox** 240 pts
and 1x Rhino as dedicated transport ( with twin linked bolter AND heavy bolter)
Elite
3x rapier weapon battery with laser destroyer array 165 pts

3x rapier weapon battery with quad mortar (thud-gun) 180 pts

Heavy Support
10 mens Heavy support squad with Hardened armor*** and 10 missile launcher ( krak,frag ,flak missiles ) 360 pts
2x Medusa siege tank squadron 310 pts
Fast Attack
Primaris lightning Strike Fighter with 245 pts
2x2 kraken penetrator missiles , missiles launcher , twin linked lascannon , battle servitor , ramjet diffracting grid
HQ
Master of Signal ( include in heavy support squad) 95 pts
includ numcio-vox**
give tank hunter and wrecker abilty to the squad and allow to use phosphex shell for medusa siege gun
Siege Breaker 107 pts
includ cognis-signum and numcio-vox**



N°2 Mixed list = 1977 pts
Troops
20 mens Tactical squad with vexilia* and nuncio-vox** 270 pts
10 mens Tactical squad with vexilia* and nuncio-vox** 240 pts
and 1x Rhino as dedicated transport ( with twin linked bolter AND heavy bolter)
Elite
3x rapier weapon battery with laser destroyer array 165 pts

Apothecarion detachement 90 pts
includ 2 medics , 1 for each tactical squad
Heavy Support
10 mens Heavy support squad with Hardened armor*** and 10 volkit culverin 360 pts

Spartan assault Tank 295pts
Lord of War
Typhon heavy siege tank 390 pts
2 sponson-mounted lascanon + Dreadhammer cannon
HQ
Legion Praetor 167 pts
with Parangon blade master crafted , Bolter,Iron Halo

Removed the rules and weapon stats for you - darkreever
 

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Death guard army list N° 3 to 7

N°3 Air superiority = 1982 pts
Troops
20 mens Tactical squad with vexilia* and nuncio-vox** 270 pts
10 mens Tactical squad with vexilia* and nuncio-vox** 240 pts
and 1x Rhino as dedicated transport ( with twin linked bolter AND heavy bolter)
Elite
3x rapier weapon battery with laser destroyer array 165 pts

Heavy Support
10 mens Heavy support squad with Hardened armor*** and 10 volkit culverin 360 pts

Spartan assault Tank 295pts
Fire Raptor 240 pts
with 4x hellstrick missiles and armoured ceramite
Fast Attack
Primaris lightning Strike Fighter 245 pts
with 2x2 kraken penetrator missiles , missiles launcher , twin linked lascannon , battle servitor , ramjet diffracting grid
HQ
Legion Praetor 167 pts
with Parangon blade master crafted , Bolter,Iron Halo

N°4 Tank killer 1997 pts
Troops
20 mens Tactical squad with vexilia* and nuncio-vox** 270 pts
10 mens Tactical squad with vexilia* and nuncio-vox** 240 pts
Elite
3x rapier weapon battery with laser destroyer array 165 pts

Heavy Support
10 mens Heavy support squad with Hardened armor*** and 10 volkit culverin 360 pts

Sicaran venator tank destroyer 230 pts
with 2 sponson las canon + Neutron beam
Fire Raptor 240 pts
with 4x hellstrick missiles and armoured ceramite
Lord of War
Cerberus heavy tank destroyer 435 pts
with lascanon x2 and Neutron laser
HQ
Legion Praetor 167 pts
with Parangon blade master crafted , Bolter,Iron Halo

N°5 Full terminator 1997 pts
HQ
Legion Praetor and Pride of the legion Rite of War 192 pts
with terminator cataphractii armor , combi weapon , parangon blade master crafted , digilaser
Legion Chapelin 120 pts
with terminator cataphracii armor
Legion Primus medicae 120 pts
with terminator cataphractii armor and narthecium
Troop
6mens Deathshroud terminator squad 250 pts

2x 5 mens terminators cataphracii squad with Land Raiders Phobos dedicated transport for all squads 770 pts
Fast Attack
2x Land-speeder with heavy chem flamer and graviton gun 150pts

Heavy Support
Spartan assault Tank 295pts
Note: all HQ characters are with the deathshroud squad in the spartan battle tank

N°7 Mixed Terminator
Troops
20 mens Tactical squad with vexilia* and nuncio-vox** 270 pts
8 mens Deathshroud terminator squad 330 pts

2x 5 mens terminators cataphracii squad with Land Raiders Phobos dedicated transport for all squads 770 pts
Elite
3x rapier weapon battery with laser destroyer array 165 pts
Heavy Support
2x Spartan assault Tank 590 pts
HQ
Legion Praetor and Pride of the legion Rite of War 192 pts
with terminator cataphractii armor , combi weapon , parangon blade master crafted , digilaser

Removed the rules and weapon stats for you - darkreever
 

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Just as a point of reference, I don't know how happy the mods are/would be about you putting all the weapons profiles and stats up. I think that might be against the rules.

Other than that, it's good to see another 30k player. I'll try and make my way back to this and give you some criticism when I get some time, as trying to work through 7 lists is quite a lot to do.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Just as a point of reference, I don't know how happy the mods are/would be about you putting all the weapons profiles and stats up. I think that might be against the rules.

Other than that, it's good to see another 30k player. I'll try and make my way back to this and give you some criticism when I get some time, as trying to work through 7 lists is quite a lot to do.
Thank you for helping me:):):)
Indeed 7 list that makes a lot but I deleted height. Because between the units which seem nice on the paper and the beautiful minis it has many choices there where from my presence among you :biggrin:
That you said in introduction about the characteristics of game that I posted you are right.
It would have been able to be badly perceived and had not thought of me of it I would thus pay attention the next time.
On the basis I put this precisions for the players of 40k because certain weapons and rules change between 2 versions a lot
 

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I am an Emperor's Children man myself. As I say, I don't have the time right now, but I'll get to it at some point.

Also, as a shameless plug, if people are wondering about the differences between units and stuff in 30K, I have an ongoing article here. That should cover most things.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Hummmmmmmmm Emperor's children I like it
It is the Chapter which at first I wanted to make but regrettably I found him too complex has to manage for me
At the time of Epic Space Marines I liked them and I love them always even I finds them CLASSES
I am going to go to read your article that I would find certain answers there
And still thank you for your help/assistant
 

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I'd second the removal of the stats for weapons. GW don't mind the odd reference of stats for the purposes of discussion, but for wholesale reproduction such as this, it soon gets into the territory of pirating materials or some such. Better to be safe than sorry.

In regards to your lists, you say you've got 7 lists, but I see 6. Was one taken out unintentionally?

First things first, the most prominent thing about the Heresy Legions list is that you pay a premium for units, with discounts for the more models you field. This makes low points games kind of troublesome for them, especially when going up against non-legion lists who don't have such problems when choosing units that there is no 50% mark up on points per model initially.

The Rhino Squad is a bit incongruous. It's a 10 man squad with a pintle heavy bolter, and it costs nearly what a 20 man squad does. Sure, it's a bit more mobile for objective capture, but it's still only a 10 man squad armed only with bolters costing far more than what even a normal Space marine squad can run as. As a point, might want to double check the points on that, it seems far too much. 170 for the squad and 50 for the rhino+weapon at most... Unless you've taken Bolter, Bolt Pistol and Close Combat Weapon combination. In which case - see my point above about you paying a premium - a Space Marine without ATSKNF and some of its other rules is not worth 17 ppm. Another 20points onto a unit which won't really be that effective at doing its job is not really a bright idea at this low level of points. Maybe giving the squad sergeant a power weapon (sword/axe/maul, no spear allowed - I usually go for an Axe or Sword) and/or Artificer Armour is one way to make it okayish in combat - At initiative AP2 is kind of hard to get a hold of, and if you can use your attacks to remove the AP2 model before he kills you, then you're on to a winner.

If you're insistent on running the Rhino, I'm not sure that the Heavy Bolter is worth it unless you have 10 points left over after everything else.

Heavy Support Squad - Hardened Armour is a luxury you can't really afford at 2K. As you can see, it's an extremely expensive squad - 360pts a hell of a lot, plus the Master of Signal added in. Incidentally Hardened Armour counts as Void Hardened in Zone Mortalis missions - you'll have to pick up the main Horus Heresy books for that. It is also something you cannot use the majority of this list with due to the use of artillery and the like. I'm not sold on Heavy Support Squads personally. For the cost of one of those squads, you can pick up like 5 Predators with 20 Autocannon shots and an AV13 wall, or even 3 with Plasma Destroyers and make one a command tank for Interceptor. Alternatively, you can pick up tooled up Spartan.

The Primaris-Lightning is also extremely expensive. An AV11/12/11 vehicle with 2 Hull points does not last long against either Tau or Eldar. You're not going to need Tank Hunter with an Armourbane vehicle in my mind. It's another luxury. Neither the ramjet - it makes paper thin armour double thickness paper - it's still paper. I'd drop the Missile Launcher. It honestly isn't really going to last long enough to make proper use of it. To keep it as a Tank killer, Ground-tracking auguries, and 4 Kraken Penetrator Heavy Missiles is about as much as you really need, or be able to afford. Tricking it out with all the bells and whistles barely keeps it alive.

Medusa I have no complaints with, although I'm wondering why you've not taken Phosphex. I think that Phosphex rounds are amazing.

In the Mixed list, you have listed putting an apothecary in the Rhino Squad - the problem with that is that until the Rhino squad loses a member, they cannot fit in the Rhino Squad - unless you're putting it in the Spartan. In which case, why are you taking the Rhino and not taking more Tactical Marines?

The Typhon is amazing. One of the best pieces of kit in the entire list. I'm not sure what role the Praetor is playing. He's not providing use of a Rite of War, and I think that a Chaplain is a better cheaper leader than a Praetor. At least give him a Boarding Shield for the defensive grenades.

The Spartan you can trick out a little bit. It's an absolute beast able to survive most things - so it's personal choice whether you make it even more survivable, or not.

Heavy Support Squad - still not sold on them so as to sink nearly 20% of my points into them.

Air Superiority List - I love me some Fire Raptors. However, I'm not sure why when you've gone ofr air superiority you've only got 2 flyers, and have a Heavy Support squad, Spartan and Typhon eating away the points you can spend on flyers. If you want air superiority though, there are better legions - namely Iron Hands, Iron Warriors, or Emperor's Children due to their ability to mess around with Reserves. At least pick up a Proteus Land Raider with the Augury Web.

Tank Killer - the list isn't really that tank killer at all. The Cerberus, I'm not sure on yet, but haven't really used it.

Terminator List - might want to check your points on the Land Speeder Squadron. For the Praetor, what combi-weapon are you going for? bear in mind that the Deathshroud are not actually Troops, because they are normally HQ squads, but IIRC, they can be a bodyguard for a Praetor, otherwise you'd need to lose one of the consuls. Bear in mind that 22 Terminators is not a lot of men with which to actually fight with, and Tau and Eldar have plenty of Anti-tank weaponry.

In the mixed Terminator Army - again, Deathshroud are HQ, but you've only got the one HQ so it's not relevant. And 8 of them is just OTT. When facing Tau or Necrons, they're shooty, for the most part.

The Praetor isn't really that useful in that list. The Terminators are already Objective Secured (according to an email to FW, treat Implacable Advance as Objective Secured if troops normally have it), so making them troops isn't really helping you massively. You normally make use of it so that you don't have to pay a 300pt tax to use Terminators, but you've already got one unit of Tactical Marines, so a second unit isn't so much, and you can drop a few Deathshrouds for the same effect.

As an aside, it's a lot easier for those to comment on your list if you choose a single list that you like the best, where people can offer more tailored advice too. So much easier. It also helps people offer suggestions more in keeping with your theme.

I'm an Alpha Legion and Night Lords player, but Iron Hands when I feel like being a bit of a dick.



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Just to say Vaz, I'm fairly certain Death Guard can take Deathshroud as both HQ bodyguard and an Elites choice (it's in their description I believe, even though their symbol is the one you use for a HQ)
 

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Favoured of Mortarion states that they may be a Command Squad as well as a HQ, no mention of elite.

It's one of those things that I'm still not sure why the elite bodyguards of a Primarch are only WS4, when even bog standard command squads are WS5 for the rest of the legion.

I can imagine the conversation ol' Morty has.

"no, no, you're too capable at fighting, you cannot be my bodyguard. You can be the bodyguard for someone shit instead".

Neither do they have Fearless, and having chem hand flamers with SnP is wasted for Overwatch. At least Grave Wardens force the enemy to make Disordered Charges.



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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
In regards to your lists, you say you've got 7 lists, but I see 6. Was one taken out unintentionally?
Indeed a list has had to get lost in the WARP.... She will return one day..... or not

but for wholesale reproduction such as this, it soon gets into the territory of pirating materials or some such. Better to be safe than sorry.

I thought not that they were also "an extremist" I would not thus redo it any more

I wanted to thank you for your invaluable advice/council and your help
I am now going to be printed all this IF you authorize me :grin:

And I am going to study these new sacred text and I would present you as quickly as possible ONE and ONLY ONE new list
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
By all means, take what you need. I'm no guru, these are just my findings and local style is massively different
Thank you
all the notices interests me and that already helps me many it you told me I waits for the analysis of Deus-Mortis if he has some time for that
I am also going to go towards the link which he gave me for his article
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I have another little question:
What profile of weapon needs he I to use for the weapon of the CHAPELIN?
The normal profile of 40K or that of an 30K energy weapon?
Because it is listed in the text: CROZIUS ARCANUM-power weapon
 

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The full text is "Crozius Arcanum - power weapon (type as shown on model)". So if you can model a Crozius into a sword or an axe, it's a power sword/axe.

Also, yes you are right Vaz. I don't know why I thought they were elites as well.

Edit: Ninja'd

I have looked through all the lists. I think most of Vaz's advice is right on the money. Although, I would add two main things.

First, in the lists which have no Deep Strikers or Barrage weapons, the Nuncio voxes are totally pointless. I would get rid of them in the lists where they don't help you.

Second is a piece of advice is shamelessly stolen from Vaz on my 2000 points list, if you aren't using Praetors to augment your FOC they are too expensive at 2000 points. In almost all of your lists, you have a beat-stick Praetor which makes up ~10% of your points. If you just want a beefy combat character, I'd play around with a Centurion with a unit of Deathshroud to back him up or some such thing.

I don't recall what they Death Guard Rite of War is, but that might be looking into when you're taking a praetor.

If I was to pick a list to take forward and try and build a final list from Id probably go with the first list, since it's got a good amount of everything I'd say (troops, anti-armour, anti-air). I might come back and add something else if it comes to me but between what I've just said and what Vaz said, I can't think of anything at this moment. Hope that helps!
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I found the sixth list I post it to you " for information "
It is certainly the worst as game but But I find it FUNNY

N°6 The REAPER
Unité 1
Mortarion Primarque of the Death Guard 425 pts
+ Pride of the Legion
Legion Centurion Librarian Level 3 177 pts
+ cataphractii armor , psychic = biomancie ou Séraphique ou télékinésie
6x Deathshroud 250 pts
Spartan 370 pts
+ armoured ceramite , auxiliary drive , flare shield , multimelta
Unité 2
5x Grave Warden 200 pts
Land Raider Phobos 310 pts
+ auxiliary drive , extra armor , armoured céramite , multimelta
Unité 3
Sicaran Vénator 260 pts
+ lascanon , auxiliari drive , armoured céramite
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
So if you can model a Crozius into a sword or an axe
I find that the object looks like already enough has an ax thus I would consider it as A Power Axe

to augment your FOC
Stupid question but..... whate the FOC ???? :p
try and build a final list from Id probably go with the first list
OK I am going to work again all this

Hope that helps
YES enormously
You and VAZ had really helped a lot me, maintaining my "masters" I am going to return has my copies and to work intelligently (or try to make it intelligently LOL)
And I would represent myself in front of you that with ONE or can be TWO list
 

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Favoured of Mortarion states that they may be a Command Squad as well as a HQ, no mention of elite.

It's one of those things that I'm still not sure why the elite bodyguards of a Primarch are only WS4, when even bog standard command squads are WS5 for the rest of the legion.

I can imagine the conversation ol' Morty has.

"no, no, you're too capable at fighting, you cannot be my bodyguard. You can be the bodyguard for someone shit instead".

Neither do they have Fearless, and having chem hand flamers with SnP is wasted for Overwatch. At least Grave Wardens force the enemy to make Disordered Charges.
If you look just under the "Legion Specific Units and Wargear" bit it says that the Deathshroud can be Elites or Command Squads.
 

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I find that the object looks like already enough has an ax thus I would consider it as A Power Axe
I think the weapon you find wielded by most Chaplain models is considered a power maul. I think to be an axe it has to actually have a bladed edge. Although, some opponents will be fine if you say "It's an axe" so long as they know. But just in case you face some A-hole I'd model the weapon with an axe blade of some form then there is no doubt.

Stupid question but..... whate the FOC ???? :p
Ah sorry! FOC is the Force Organisation Chart, i.e. the thing that says how many HQs, Elites, Troops, etc you can have. Although I suppose a Praetor doesn't specifically change that, rather what things you can put in those slots. Either way, what I was trying to say was unless you are using your Praetor to allow you to take more flyers, tanks or terminators/veteran, or whatever other Rite of War you can use, then you are paying for an ability you aren't using and thus he's worth less than you are paying for him, hence you should consider maybe just tooling out a Centurion to hit your opponent's characters round the head with, and spend the points you save on other stuff like more guns etc.

YES enormously
You and VAZ had really helped a lot me, maintaining my "masters" I am going to return has my copies and to work intelligently (or try to make it intelligently LOL)
And I would represent myself in front of you that with ONE or can be TWO list
I'd hardly put myself on Vaz's level. He still frequently puts me straight with my lists, so :laugh: In any case, feel free to post any more lists you have and I'm sure we as the Heresy community will do our best to offer whatever advice we can :eek:k:
@mayegelt: That makes me feel a bit better. I could have sworn I had seen it. In case anyone is wondering, you can find the reference on page 38 of Isstvan Campaign Legions.
 
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