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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I posted previously that I was moving away from my Grey Knights and toward regular Space Marines. 1750 pts seems to be the trend around here (as well as the ability to go up to 2000 pts). So these lists are going to be "general comers" and my ready-to-go lists. I want to post all 3, get some critique and see which one I want to start building (may even start a project log if that's a motivator for assistance ;) )

I am a fan of taking advantage of the rules given to me, so I lean heavily toward Chapter Tactics/theme lists. That doesn't mean I won't use a unit because it doesn't fit in (Talons in a Salamanders army for example). So here are the lists I've come up with, my current favorite being Salamanders.

Salamanders - *= CT Master-Crafting

HQ:
Vulkan (190 pts)
Librarian w/ Terminator Armor, Mastery Lvl 2 (Telepathy), Storm Shield, *Force Axe (125 pts)

Elites:
5 Assault Terminators w/ 3 TH+SS, 2 LC's (215 pts) <--- Sgt has *LC's
5 Sternguard w/ 2 Heavy Flamers, *Combi-Plasma, Drop Pod (185 pts)

Troops:
10 Marines w/ Meltagun, Multi-Melta, *Combi-Melta, Drop Pod (205 pts)
10 Marines w/ Meltagun, Multi-Melta, *Combi-Melta, Drop Pod (205 pts)
5 Scouts w/ Camo Cloaks, 4 Sniper Rifles, Missile Launcher (84 pts) <--- Sgt has *Sniper Rifle

Fast Attack:
Stormtalon w/ TML (145 pts)
Stormtalon w/ TML (145 pts)

Heavy:
Redeemer w/ Multi-Melta (250 pts)

Total: 1749 pts

My thoughts: For posterity sake I put the free MC weapons, even though it's technically not done in the list building phase. It's just for my game plan. Librarian rides with the Terminators in the Redeemer, rolling twice on Telepathy so we can try and get some good opponent manipulation. The plan is to infiltrate Scouts forward on an objective to support the two Drop Pods turn 1, probably Vulkan + Sternguard and a Tac squad. I'm unsure about the Combi-Plasma on the Sternguard, it was mostly for if I saw a target worth taking that kind of shot on instead of just another flamer that will probably go unused with 3 Heavy Flamers in a unit. Stormtalons aim to shoot enemy flyers (there are a few Heldrakes in my group and pretty much everything I've got is just power armor) and other priority targets. Two of them should give good support and coverage. Redeemer is a fire magnet or delivery system: if it's getting shot then Vulkan and my Tacs aren't. If it isn't getting shot then I'm freely rolling into Flamestorm/Terminator range.

Raven Guard

HQ:
Chapter Master w/ Artificer Armour, Lightning Claw, Jump Pack, Meltabombs (185 pts)
Honour Guard w/ 3 extra Guards, Rhino (195 pts)

Troops:
10 Marines w/ Missile Launcher, Plasma Gun, Combi-Plasma, Rhino (215 pts)
10 Marines w/ Missile Launcher, Plasma Gun, Combi-Plasma, Rhino (215 pts)
10 Marines w/ Multi-Melta, Meltagun, Combi-Melta, Rhino (205 pts)
10 Marines w/ Multi-Melta, Meltagun, Combi-Melta, Rhino (205 pts)

Fast Attack:
10 Assault Marines w/ 2 Flamers (180 pts)
10 Assault Marines w/ 2 Flamers (180 pts)

Heavy Support:
5 Devastators w/ 4 Missile Launchers + Flakk (170 pts)

Total: 1750 pts

My thoughts: A very typical Rhino rush list. Devastators get stealth and scout to redeploy if need be so should be pretty safe, but unfortunately it's a small squad and all of my anti-air. Chapter Master + Assault Marines hang back turn 1 behind the wall of Rhino's. Honour guard will drive up, deploy and bolter for a turn before assaulting something that needs to die. One of the Melta Rhino's could also stay in Reserves and Outflank (thanks to Scout) on a turn for late game objective contention. I feel like the sheer number of bodies in this list and how fast most of them are going to get up the board will keep my opponent back and away from objectives.

Imperial Fists

HQ:
Master of the Forge w/ Conversion Beamer (110 pts)

Troops:
10 Marines w/ Plasma Gun, Combi-Plasma, Rhino (200 pts)
10 Marines w/ Plasma Gun, Combi-Plasma, Rhino (200 pts)
10 Marines w/ Plasma Gun, Combi-Plasma, Rhino (200 pts)
10 Marines w/ Plasma Gun, Combi-Plasma, Rhino (200 pts)
5 Scouts w/ Camo Cloaks, 4 Sniper Rifles, Missile Launcher (84 pts)

Fast Attack:
Stormtalon w/ TML (145 pts)

Heavy Support:
7 Devastators w/ 4 Missile Launchers + Flakk (198 pts)
7 Devastators w/ 4 Lascannons (178 pts)
Vindicator w/ Siege Shield (135 pts)

Fortification:
Aegis w/ Quad Gun (100 pts)

Total: 1750 pts

My thoughts: I actually sort of like this list. MotF joins LasDevs and bolsters their ruins. MLDevs are flyer control in the Aegis, with the Sgt manning the gun. Vindicator sits behind the Rhino's that are rushing forward to make use of Bolters. Scouts are for objective holding. Stormtalon is a support unit that will shoot well versus ground based targets (skies should be clear thanks to Devs) with strafing run. My only consideration would be using the Sentinels of Terra supplement solely for the improved Bolter Drill. Since I'm going for mid-range with Plasma in the Rhino's, getting all re-rolls instead of just 1's would be really useful. I'm not using any Chapter Relics to miss out on. My only uncertainty would be in the

Those are my three balanced lists with a fluffy feel. Critique on one or all three, all comments are appreciated! I would really like to begin building one of these in the near future!
 

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Salamanders - *= CT Master-Crafting

HQ:
Vulkan (190 pts)
Librarian w/ Terminator Armor, Mastery Lvl 2 (Telepathy), Storm Shield, *Force Axe (125 pts)

Elites:
5 Assault Terminators w/ 3 TH+SS, 2 LC's (215 pts) <--- Sgt has *LC's
5 Sternguard w/ 2 Heavy Flamers, *Combi-Plasma, Drop Pod (185 pts)

Troops:
10 Marines w/ Meltagun, Multi-Melta, *Combi-Melta, Drop Pod (205 pts)
10 Marines w/ Meltagun, Multi-Melta, *Combi-Melta, Drop Pod (205 pts)
5 Scouts w/ Camo Cloaks, 4 Sniper Rifles, Missile Launcher (84 pts) <--- Sgt has *Sniper Rifle

Fast Attack:
Stormtalon w/ TML (145 pts)
Stormtalon w/ TML (145 pts)

Heavy:
Redeemer w/ Multi-Melta (250 pts)

Total: 1749 pts

My thoughts: For posterity sake I put the free MC weapons, even though it's technically not done in the list building phase. It's just for my game plan. Librarian rides with the Terminators in the Redeemer, rolling twice on Telepathy so we can try and get some good opponent manipulation. The plan is to infiltrate Scouts forward on an objective to support the two Drop Pods turn 1, probably Vulkan + Sternguard and a Tac squad. I'm unsure about the Combi-Plasma on the Sternguard, it was mostly for if I saw a target worth taking that kind of shot on instead of just another flamer that will probably go unused with 3 Heavy Flamers in a unit. Stormtalons aim to shoot enemy flyers (there are a few Heldrakes in my group and pretty much everything I've got is just power armor) and other priority targets. Two of them should give good support and coverage. Redeemer is a fire magnet or delivery system: if it's getting shot then Vulkan and my Tacs aren't. If it isn't getting shot then I'm freely rolling into Flamestorm/Terminator range.
I agree here Salamanders is the cooler of the three.

Perhaps ditch the stormtalons in favor of two squads of MM Attack Bikes? Or, maybe some backfield TacTerms with a cyclone missile launcher. I don't really play C:SM, but I feel like the Hunter could be a decent choice here for AA? I've heard negative things but it's cheap and potentially powerful. Could be fun 210 for three or perhaps two at 140 plus a lassponsor Stormtalon leaves you ten points to spare. Your Heldrake opponents will HAVE to focus on the Stormtalon, lest those Lascannons shred that shmancy Terminator Lord, keeping them from assaulting ground forces and leaving them vulnerable to your Hunters.

Majorian
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
The reason I don't take the Stalker or Hunter (I'd take Stalker though) is because the guns on the vehicles themselves aren't too scary to anything but a flyer. Stormtalon gives me strafing run (BS 5 with missiles shooting at the ground) and 2 Krak Missiles which is higher Str and the frag missiles on the ground.

Stormtalons/flyers in general seem to work better in pairs, so that I don't lose all my air in the first bit of Skyfire to look it's way.
 

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I feel you on the flyer thing, but in this situation you would be using the flyer as more of an anvil. I guess I just see a whole lot of Melta everywhere else in your list, I think you might have some room for the hunter or stalker. I just really like the Savant Lock rule, it seems like there's some very great tactical application against enemy FMCs. It would force the FMC to assault something or the missile might hit, and then boom you got a stormtalon free from getting hurt by flyers. Plus fire power aimed at your talon isn't being aimed at your assault terminators, who don't have the boon of firepower.

Majorian
 

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I like your IF list, it's very similar to what I am working toward. Only thing I would suggest is dropping the Stormtalon for a second Vindicator. You have AA covered with 8x S7 Tank Hunter shots (half w/ Interceptor and Twin-Linked to boot), go in for the pie plates. I would also suggest putting pintle SBs on both of them for the purpose of Weapon Destroyed results.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I feel you on the flyer thing, but in this situation you would be using the flyer as more of an anvil. I guess I just see a whole lot of Melta everywhere else in your list, I think you might have some room for the hunter or stalker. I just really like the Savant Lock rule, it seems like there's some very great tactical application against enemy FMCs. It would force the FMC to assault something or the missile might hit, and then boom you got a stormtalon free from getting hurt by flyers. Plus fire power aimed at your talon isn't being aimed at your assault terminators, who don't have the boon of firepower.

Majorian
I mean, I'm still not seeing the reason to take the Hunter. I like Savant Lock, but with only one shot I really want to get the flyer/FMC down and out sooner rather than later. Melta isn't hitting those guys easily. Any fire that would be directed at my Stormtalons would instead be shifted to the Terminators as a Hunter or Stalker is going to sit in the back and wait for those flyers to come on or take pot shots from the back. Stormtalon becomes much more of a nuisance due to it's mobility and is more likely to take the shooting that would be directed at the Terminators.

I like your IF list, it's very similar to what I am working toward. Only thing I would suggest is dropping the Stormtalon for a second Vindicator. You have AA covered with 8x S7 Tank Hunter shots (half w/ Interceptor and Twin-Linked to boot), go in for the pie plates. I would also suggest putting pintle SBs on both of them for the purpose of Weapon Destroyed results.
Good call on both. Can't actually squeeze another Vindicator in (3 Heavy Supports full) but I imagine a Drop Pod Dreadnought with Flamers to help soften up some back line could fill in for the Talon?
 

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I like the strategy of going with two Vindis running about 4-6" side by side granting coversave protection on those weaker side hulls. It's very hard hitting and and very tough to kill.

Plus the MotF can get em movin again if you get immobilized.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
Worth dropping the LasDevs and Stormtalon and I can get myself a good counter assault unit? Or some Sternguard.

Also, it's Imperial Fists. If I ran Sentinels I could bring some Grav Centurions if I ran with the Sentinels supplement. Have a solid brick running up the board would be fun
 

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(3 Heavy Supports full)
:laugh: ah-duh! Whoops.

Ok, so...before I get in on this, do you have two Stormtalons or two Vindicators/the ability to proxy them for the purposes of list testing? I've got some ideas that involve two of either vehicles and an Inquisitor for the Missile Launcher squad. Lets one Devastator squad get bolstered defenses and one get Prescience, while both get Characters with interesting bonuses in Challenges should there be a sneak attack back field and you get charged.

Worth dropping the LasDevs and Stormtalon and I can get myself a good counter assault unit?
I have taken my BA army up against a SM army of 90+ marines using IF tactics...it's tough. Even if I get into assault and crush an opponent I get out and BAM. 40+ bolter shots from the rest of the marines I didn't kill.

Your counter assault unit is your bolter fire, my friend.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
If I were to run with Fists, I'd love to fit Sternguard in. I love the models.

Do not have those tanks though, these are armies I want to build.
 

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Hmm, what about some Thunderfire cannons? Certainly fluffy. And then an ADL with an Icarus?

Also, I posted a list recently, would one or both of you mind lending some criticisms?
 

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If I were to run with Fists, I'd love to fit Sternguard in. I love the models.
There we have it. Have you ever considered running Crimson Fists instead of Imperial Fists? Same tactics, slightly more expensive HQ that makes Sternguard fit in as scoring Elites.

To be sure, if these are armies you haven't built yet I would wait until 7th edition drops. Even just with the changes to the FoC builds and the Psychic phase there might be some new stuff that's make or break for some types of armies.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Hmm, what about some Thunderfire cannons? Certainly fluffy. And then an ADL with an Icarus?

Also, I posted a list recently, would one or both of you mind lending some criticisms?
Not big on the Icarus. No one I know uses it and the twin-linked Quad-Gun seems to do the job nicely for less points. TFC's would be great, but it'd be a matter of dropping one unit of Devs and then trying not to justify a Vindicator at that point lol

I'll pander a gander at your list, saw that it's BA + Scars so I don't know how much help I'll be

There we have it. Have you ever considered running Crimson Fists instead of Imperial Fists? Same tactics, slightly more expensive HQ that makes Sternguard fit in as scoring Elites.

To be sure, if these are armies you haven't built yet I would wait until 7th edition drops. Even just with the changes to the FoC builds and the Psychic phase there might be some new stuff that's make or break for some types of armies.
Actually have considered Crimson Fists but I don't overly like the paint scheme and I don't think I could "manipulate" the fluff enough to make it seem logical for Pedro to be there. Do like their Sternguard rule though.
But it's not like I have any shortage of scoring units, they'll contest an objective same as anybody. And with the amount of Combi-weapons you can bring, it almost seems worth using them for the sacrificial melta-pod they're known for.
 

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the twin-linked Quad-Gun seems to do the job nicely for less points
The QG is 50 points where the ILC is 35, so definitely more points for the QG. I agree it works WAY better, and when you stack it with Tank Hunter...all win.

Actually have considered Crimson Fists but I don't overly like the paint scheme and I don't think I could "manipulate" the fluff enough to make it seem logical for Pedro to be there.
Paint them whatever colour you want, and do a 'counts-as' Captain of your making with the same wargear. Woo 40k!

I would drop the Stormtalon from the list to accommodate the Sternguard. If you need more points, drop the Scouts and spread any excess points out in the form of Heavy Bolters for the Tactical squads or more bodies for the Devastator squads. You can always combat squad Devs. to have two heavy weapons in each CS, which may be more effective with LC squads: sometimes 4 LC shots is really overkill.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
So how about this as an alternative?

Imperial Fists

HQ:
Captain Ordep Rotnak/"Pedro Kantor" (185 pts)

Troops:
10 Marines w/ Plasma Gun, Combi-Plasma, Rhino (200 pts)
10 Marines w/ Plasma Gun, Combi-Plasma, Rhino (200 pts)
10 Marines w/ Plasma Gun, Combi-Plasma, Rhino (200 pts)
10 Marines w/ Plasma Gun, Combi-Plasma, Rhino (200 pts)
5 Scouts w/ Camo Cloaks, 4 Sniper Rifles, Missile Launcher (84 pts)

Heavy Support:
Vindicator w/ Siege Shield (135 pts)
10 Devastators w/ 4 Lascannons (220 pts)

Fortification:
Aegis w/ Quad Gun (100 pts)

Total: 1524 pts

I have 226 pts to do one of 3 things with:
1) - 1 Marine in a Rhino so Ordep has a seat (+14 pts)
- Scout squad (+84 pts) *Total to spend after subtractions = 326 pts)
+ Vindicator w/ Siege Shield, Storm Bolter (140 pts)
+ MotF w/ Conversion Beamer (110 pts)
+ Techmarine w/ Servo-Harness (75 pts)
Total: 1749 pts - Devs combat squad, 2 LC's + Sgt going in Aegis, MotF goes with other 2 LC's in Bolstered terrain, Techmarine walks up between the Vindicators to make repairs and bolster a ruins for midfield objective, "Pedro" goes in a Rhino and rolls up the board with a Tac squad.

2) Sternguard - looking for suggestions on either podding them in with or without Pedro or rolling them up the board in a Rhino also. Maybe just walk them to midfield?

3) + 6 Honour Guard w/ 1 Relic Blade, Rhino
Pedro joins these guys and they look for a fight, their artificer armour to pick an opponent, bolter for 1 turn, survive the return fire and assault. Ideally they'll be doing this when the other 40 Marines are leaping out to shoot stuff to death.

Also looking for input on whether switching a couple of Plasma's to Melta's would be beneficial? Just in case the Vindi's don't get the job done
 

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For sure, 9 Sternguard with whatever weapons make you happiest and Ordep in a Drop Pod. That I think makes the most sense to fill out your remaining points.

As for your Devastators, when I run one squad it's MLs or FMLs depending on the amount of fliers I'll be facing. The LCs are great against armour, but consider that for Instant Death S8 or S10 make the difference. Not to mention you can seriously beef up your AA presence by taking 4 FMLs instead of the LCs; this is really the only situation where I suggest S7 for AA because of the Tank Hunter benefit.

Check this list out:

HQ:
Captain Ordep Rotnak/"Pedro Kantor"

Elites:
9x man Sternguard w/ 5x combi-???, HF in a DP

Troops:
10 Marines w/ Plasma Gun, Combi-Plasma, Rhino
10 Marines w/ Plasma Gun, Combi-Plasma, Rhino
10 Marines w/ Plasma Gun, Combi-Plasma, Rhino
10 Marines w/ Plasma Gun, Combi-Plasma, Rhino
5 Scouts w/ Camo Cloaks, 4 Sniper Rifles, Missile Launcher

Heavy Support:
Vindicator w/ Siege Shield, pintle SB
Vindicator w/ Siege Shield, pintle SB
10 Devastators w/ 4x FMLs

Fortification:
Aegis w/ Quad Gun
Comes out to 1,992 points. You get MAD scoring units, lots of AA shots in your turn and theirs, a pair of pie plates, and your HQ and Sternguard heroically DPing into the thick of the battle. All without compromising the things your have been saying you want out of your list.

How does this jive with what you want to play?
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
If I was shooting for 2000 pts that's pretty much exactly what I'd be looking for!

To keep it at 1750 though, limited to 1 Vindicator.

I can see your point on the FML's, let me rewrite 1750 IF and I'll edit it in here.
 

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To keep it at 1750 though, limited to 1 Vindicator.
To trim the 250 out I would drop a Vindicator, the Scout squad, and the Heavy Flamer and one Combi-Weapon from the Sternguard. Puts it at 1748.

I don't know why I had 2k in my head, I guess I thought you were at ~1750 looking for 250 more. More beer! :drinks:
 

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I really like that 2K fists build. Dakka 4 daze. I approve wholeheartedly. I would love to play against that. I feel like I'd get tabled in 3, but still a good match. So much infantry.

Someone posted a sternguard heavy list query a few weeks ago. This looks like that played out. You should do this when/if you build up to 2K.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 · (Edited)
Alright, sorry for lack of post. Trying to nail down these two lists because they both play so differently that it'd be fun to build them both! Salamanders is set for 1750 and I feel like it would be easy to bump up to 2000 pts. Here's what I'm leaning to for Imperial Fists that could be similarly bumped up to 2000. Open to suggestions for both.

HQ:
Captain Ordep/Pedro Katnor (185 pts)

Troops:
4x10 Marines w/ Plasma Gun, Combi-Plasma, Rhino (200 pts each/800 pts)

Elites:
9 Sternguard w/ 2 Heavy Flamers, 2 Combi-Melta, 2 Combi-Plasma, Rhino (303 pts)

Heavy Support:
10 Devastators w/ 4 Lascannons (220 pts)
Vindicator w/ Siege Shield, Storm Bolter (140 pts)

Fortification:
Aegis w/ Quad Gun (100 pts)

Total:
1748 pts

Pedro and the Sternguard ride up in the Rhino alongside the rest of the army. Devastators combat squad, 2 Las in the Aegis and 2 in terrain. Sgt uses Signum for the Quad Gun to shoot down flyers. Pretty simple list, covers itself quite well I'd imagine. And for 2000 pts I could add another Vindicator and some Scouts to score, a Thunderfire Cannon (double force org) or Melta bikes to open those transports and other vehicles.
At this point with Unbound lists though, everything is go.
 
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