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Discussion Starter #1
Just curious what the general consensus is on what the value of a 3+ armor save is when a model already has a 4+ invuln. Specifically I'm talking about Tzeentch Daemon Princes for Chaos Daemons.

I've got two Tzeentch princes with Bolt and Gaze, so they come out to 160 each. Is it worth 30 points to give them the 3+ armor? I would be much more confident in the upgrade for them if I was running vehicles as well but since I'm not I have to assume that all of the low ap high str shots are going to be directed at my MCs.

Along with those two I'll also be running Fateweaver and probably a Nurgle DP (Might possibly change him to be a Tzeentch one as well) who would have the armor upgrade since he'll only have a 5+ invuln.
 

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I would as my DPs are often killed not by high strength weapons but by TONS of bolter rounds and the like.
 

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3+is awesome against small arms and 4+ is good vs heavy wpn's so it depends what you face.

i have a mix in my army as i use them for different jobs but it depends what you need to fill the gaps in your army.

i don't know the math's buts that my 2p.
 

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well, in a vacuum, 3+ is awesome compared to 4+. But when you're building a list, how good something is is (almost) irrelevant. The question you should ask (as you are rightly doing) is 'is it worth the point investment'. And here my answer is no. Daemon princes in a CD army can get expensive quick, and what you want out of your princes is an as-cheap-as-possible platform for bolt and gaze. The other thing you need to do is create as much target saturation as possible, since from the outset you will only have half of your forces on the table. This means keeping units as cheap as possible so you can max out on your FOC. And this is the reason why heralds are generally better than Greater Daemons.

Hope that helps,

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You're talking about 60 points to outfit the two of them. Can you spend 60 points elsewhere on more effective things? I'm thinking probably so, and it's not a huge loss (the difference in mitigation is about 16% for things you'd be able to take the armor save against.)

That is, unless you face null zones or other things that ignore/mess with invulnerable saves. Then you're better off with armor.
 

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Whenever I face daemons, it's always the mid strength weaponry which kill enemy daemons. Playing Elysians, I don't have much anti-monstrous creature - the best I have is Vultures with Punishers or Vendetta's. The rest of the army is anti-infantry to a T.

I rarely see Daemons played where I live - it's usually Chaos Marines, and their Princes are testament to the value of the armour save - the number of times they have passed on a 3+ or 4+ is astounding, when they should have died is unreal.



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It really depends on the point level. At 2000 points or more, ironhide is probably a must have on all your daemon princes. They're just too vulnerable to small arms fire, otherwise.

This goes double if you're using fateweaver, as rerolling 3's is a lot better than rerolling 4's.
 

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my Princ ehas been in 2 battles. The first he was killed by Thunder hammers even tho he had a 4++ save. the second he only took 1 wound from a normal guys...after killing Shrike and chacing down the unit after.
My advice is that All Princes should eaither be Nurgle or Tzeentch. Never Khorne or Slannesh
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
The list has 18 fiends in it atm. Adding IH to the princes more or less means dropping two fiends. Is that really worth it? I feel like just about all of the fire will be directed at Fateweaver and the Fiends as it is.

I might as well post the list to make this a little easier

HQ:
Fateweaver
Tzerald w/ Chariot, WaL, MoS, BoT
The Masque (Get's much more durable with Fateweaver (3+ invuln) and will help out the fiends a lot since they don't have offensive grenades)

Elites
3x6 Fiends w/ UM

HS
2xDP w/ MoT, BoT, DG
1xDP w/ MoN, NT, CoF, IH, Wings

Troops
2x5 Plaguebearers w/ Icon
2x5 Plaguebearers

1998 points
 
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