[Saint7515]

Army Name: Knights of the Vale

Special Notes
- I like the changes they made in 8th, and I *almost* want to start collecting fantasy as well as 40K... but it's going to be 'Counts as.' I like Bretonia theme-ing, but their infantry seem kinda awful, and I3 Knights seem like a really, really bad plan. So, using models from a bunch of different armies, and using the Chaos Rulebook since t4, i5, and Chaos armor are worth it, I'm throwing this list out there.

- I don't have the new Rulebook as of yet, and while I THINK I remember the % max/min, I don't remember what total # of units is required for 2000pts. Hope I'm legal. If not, feel free to yell at me until I fumble back into my FLGS...

LORDS

Lord: Sorc Lord: 420
- Lvl 3 Sorc; Mark of Nurgle, Steam of Corruption, Demonic Steed, Runeshield, Bronze Armor of somebody, Rending Sword
The Anti Anti-hero. The goal: make a dude who can do damage, run around on his own, possibly sneak around and hit firing lines, but not simply keel-over to Character hunting characters.

CORE

Core 1: 18x Warriors of Chaos: 348
- Mark of Nurgle, Extra Hand Weapons, FC.
3 Ranks x 6 Dudes. The goal: a Unit that can deal damage to other blocks but also stick in against specialists. I think they work...

Core 2: 18x Warriors of Chaos: 348
- Mark of Nurgle, Halbreds, FC.
See above

Core 3: 9x Marauder Horsemen: 165
- Mark of Nurgle, Light Armor, Spears, FC.
Fast Cav can reform lots. The goal: Flanking unit.
Not sure if this is the right attitude to have for these guys. Mark and 5+, or should I drop it all and make 2 units of 5?

SPECIAL

Special 1: 10x Chaos Knights: 505
- Mark of Nurgle, Festering Shroud, FC
2 Ranks x 5 Dudes. The Goal: a really, really big multi-tool... for killing.

RARE

Rare 1: Hellcannon: 205
Seems like a great support platform, not quit sure what else to do about range...

Army Total: 1991

Please tell me what works and what doesn't! I am not versed in any way about WHFB, so I don't know what I'm like to come up against/have problems with. Also, If I DO take a liking towards this system, are there any units I should ABSOLUTELY have if/when going larger?

Thanks in advance.

 

[The Son of Horus]

Looks fine for the most part. The Hellcannon is iffy-- some people like it, some don't-- I personally have never gotten much out of it. I'd drop two Knights and run your Lord with them-- he should -never- be by himself. Since the daemonic steed's base is a 50mm square, he'll displace two knights-- might as well just take the points and do something else with them.

Your Warriors need shields, even though they won't use them in combat-- the extra armor against shooting is incredibly valuable-- that's something you could do by dropping two knights. The rest of the points could go to make the Marauder Horsemen ten strong-- they probably should be. Also, if you can scare up the points to give them flails in place of spears, it's MUCH better.

A Lord of Chaos is the final word on killing-- you have very little to fear from enemy characters for the most part. Short of a Dwarf Lord that's tooled out, another Chaos Lord, or an Ogre Tyrant, there's really not a lot that can even begin to stand up to a Chaos Lord. The Lord as he stands is illegal anyway--he can't have both the runesword and the Bronze Armour of Zhrakk-- that's two magic armor choices. You can probably ditch the Bronze Armour of Zhrakk-- you need his Leadership contribution anyway, and the Bronze Armour stops other models from using his leadership. You also don't really need the rending sword-- you're S5 to begin with. Go for broke-- give him the Chaos Runesword and the Runeshield together-- it's a classic combination that's been proven time and again. The other possibility is the Aethersword/Obsidian Blade (they're identical--the Obsidian Blade is in the Common Items list, the Aethersword is in the Warriors of Chaos magic items) and Runeshield. The points are the same for both the Aethersword and the Runesword, so try it both ways and see which you prefer. I like the Runesword better, personally, since it's got more utility against rank and file models and isn't meaningfully less useful against characters than the aethersword. Stream of Corruption is very hit or miss-- I could see it being more useful if the Lord were on foot, but since he isn't he's never going to use it. You could save some points by just dropping it, and putting the War Banner somewhere.

On the subject of arming your Warriors-- I personally am not a fan of extra hand weapons. The extra attack isn't worth the loss of a point of armor when the Warriors already outclass everything they're going to be up against anyway. For Warriors of Nurgle, I've had a lot of success with halberds. They have two attacks apiece, and at S5, they're outright killing most stuff and wounding it on a 2+ while they're at it. I'd arm your Warrior units the same-- you want to make sure there's not a unit that your opponent prefers to fight over the other. As they're currently armed, armies that are horde-intensive will simply try to avoid the extra hand weapon unit while swamping the halberdiers and knights, while more heavily armored armies will go out of their way to engage the unit with the extra hand weapons while making life difficult for the halberdiers from afar. By having the units both the same, the opponent can't exploit a situational weakness as easily.

 

[Saint7515]

Thanks for the tips, tricks, corrections and evaluation.

I guess my idea on the Lord didn't come across as I wanted it to - I thought it would be best to have a spell-caster (for the dispell), who simply wouldn't die in Challenge, yet would murderize everything non-charcter-y. Given how much variety of hurt you can put on groups with Nurgle's spell list (any 3 will probably do) and the new rule with breath weapons in CC, I wanted a dude who wouldn't hunt characters, but masses of infantry (and Human knights with Quagmire - Jesus, that spell is rude), but would not simply fall over to characters either.

Is such a build possible? Wise? or should I simply stick with the Rich Lords for killing and the sorcerers for only sorcery?

 

[The Son of Horus]

Because of how dispel dice generation works, I'd focus on your sorcerers being offensive if you're going to bring them. And by all means, if you're going to bring an army of Nurgle, bring sorcerers! The Lore of Nurgle is REALLY powerful against certain armies, and merely good against most others.

Since your characters -have- to issue challenges and accept them when they're issued (although in the case of challenges issued, you can accept with a unit champion instead if you like to save your Lord from something he doesn't want to fight, such as another unit champion or a hero who actually will hurt him like a Dwarf Lord), you might as well equip your heroes with that sort of duty in mind. Any Warriors of Chaos character armed to fight in challenges is perfectly capable of wading through ranks of regular troops, in my experience.

I'd try to figure out a way to bring a couple more characters. Bringing a regular Lord of Nurgle (as opposed to a sorcerer lord) gives your army a general who actually provides a leadership bonus and is a better fighter than the sorcerer anyway, and a couple Sorcerers or a sorcerer and a battle standard bearer both make the army much more effective overall, I think. It's tough to run just a single character in an army of this size-- you can get away with it at the 1000-point mark, but above that, I'd bring more.

 

[Saint7515]

New list - not much changed, just the big guy(s) really. I also think I'm going to be outnumbered all the time except when fighting dudes who are much bigger than me. Oh well, I DID like this army because of the statline...

Army Name: Knights of the Vale

LORDS

Lord: Chaos Warrior Lord: 330
- Mark of Nurgle, Demonic Steed, Runeshield.
Seems good enough as is. Anything to add? Is the runeshield not as good/as good as I think it is?

Hero: Chaos Sorc: 190
- Lvl 2, Mark of Nurgle, Dispell Staff, Spell Familiar
No longer mounted or kited to do anything but cast, he's going to, uh, 'hide' in with the now 17 man warrior squad to fill out that first rank again.

CORE

Core 1: 17x Warriors of Chaos: 332
- Mark of Nurgle, Halberds, FC.
3 Ranks x 6 Dudes (with Sorc). Martch forward, kill blocks, hold down specialists. I THINK there are enough bodies here to accomplish that against most anything, unless mine helle cannone can't hit some of those 50 man high elf blocks running around.

Core 2: 18x Warriors of Chaos: 348
- Mark of Nurgle, Halberds, FC.
See above

Core 3: 9x Marauder Horsemen: 165
- Mark of Nurgle, Light Armor, Spears, FC.
Fast Cav can reform lots. The goal: Flanking unit.
Just cant seem to fit the 10th guy in. Still not sure if this is the right attitude to have for these guys. Almost seems like I'm paying too much for someone who's probably just going to be running around flanks all day. I drop all the upgrades and make 3 units of 5?

SPECIAL

Special 1: 8x Chaos Knights: 425
- Mark of Nurgle, Festering Shroud, FC
Lord runs with them. Are these guys really that good? They're really cool in concept, and I'm going 'counts as' for the army; there WILL be knights in it. I just want to know if they stand a chance of getting their points back at the end of the day.

RARE

Rare 1: Hellcannon: 205
Point, click, death. This thing looks like a monster on paper; not pts efficient as most empire weapons, but still, this thing looks crazy good at handling... anything

Army Total: 1995

 

[Sethis]

Lord: Chaos Warrior Lord: 330
- Mark of Nurgle, Demonic Steed, Runeshield.
Seems good enough as is. Anything to add? Is the runeshield not as good/as good as I think it is?

I'm a great fan of the Runeshield, nothing better than turning a 60pt Magic sword into a good old Hand Weapon. I'm less of a fan of the 50pt steed that gives him *less* protection than a normal barded horse. I don't find it's worth the points in order to kill about one extra basic infantry guy per combat (assuming you're not in a challenge). I'd run with the Barded Steed and get him a cheap (common?) magic sword

Hero: Chaos Sorc: 190
- Lvl 2, Mark of Nurgle, Dispell Staff, Spell Familiar
No longer mounted or kited to do anything but cast, he's going to, uh, 'hide' in with the now 17 man warrior squad to fill out that first rank again.

Doing nothing but casting, but yet no bonus power dice. In my mind that's far more important than an extra spell - especially since you don't have the benefit of Mark of Tzeentch. I have yet to use a Dispel Scroll in this edition, and I haven't lost any of my games. Consider a Book of Secrets instead. An extra power dice and a Shadow/Death spell might come in very handy. Miscasts are bad though, avoid rolling more than 4 dice per spell if you can.

CORE

Core 1: 17x Warriors of Chaos: 332
- Mark of Nurgle, Halberds, FC.
3 Ranks x 6 Dudes (with Sorc). Martch forward, kill blocks, hold down specialists. I THINK there are enough bodies here to accomplish that against most anything, unless mine helle cannone can't hit some of those 50 man high elf blocks running around.

Core 2: 18x Warriors of Chaos: 348
- Mark of Nurgle, Halberds, FC.
See above

Nice, shields will make you near-invulnerable to anything that's not a War machine (or close to it - hitting on 4s at best (more likely to be 5/6s, wounding on 5s, 3+ save...) so consider dropping one guy per unit to buy them all shields if you play a lot of elves/gunlines.

Core 3: 9x Marauder Horsemen: 165
- Mark of Nurgle, Light Armor, Spears, FC.
Fast Cav can reform lots. The goal: Flanking unit.
Just cant seem to fit the 10th guy in. Still not sure if this is the right attitude to have for these guys. Almost seems like I'm paying too much for someone who's probably just going to be running around flanks all day. I drop all the upgrades and make 3 units of 5?

I'd forget about making them 10 strong. Unless you make them about 15 strong, you're never going to get into combat without losing your rank - dont even try. Go for War Machine / Missile troop removal instead, a unit of 5-10 with a ranged option like Axes or Javelins. And leave the armour at home - it's negated by anything that isn't a bow and even if you are being shot by bows, for it to have an effect you have to roll 6 saves. And 5 of those saves result in a dead Horseman. Out of a 10 man unit, Light armour saves 1.something Horsemen. Not worth it. They are going to die. Only question is what they do to your opponent before they do.

SPECIAL

Special 1: 8x Chaos Knights: 425
- Mark of Nurgle, Festering Shroud, FC
Lord runs with them. Are these guys really that good? They're really cool in concept, and I'm going 'counts as' for the army; there WILL be knights in it. I just want to know if they stand a chance of getting their points back at the end of the day.

I've had no success with Knights that do not have the Mark of Khorne. Nurgle makes them more survivable, but they already have a 1+ save - they're not lacking in survival (and anything that kills them reliably doesn't roll to hit - i.e. War Machines and Magic). What they are lacking in is raw killing power. 17 attacks is 12 hits and 7 wounds (ish), 25 attacks is 18 hits, 12 wounds (again, ish). That's the difference between breaking even against a ranked block and winning by a large margin (never mind the whole getting their points back thing).

I know the Nurgle theme is nice and thematic (ah-hah) but sometimes it's not the best gaming option. If you're cool with that, then great. Otherwise they could use a different Mark. And standard. My personal preference for them is the Blasted Standard (see the aforementioned War Machines...) or a nice cheap one from the rulebook list. If you really can't stand the thought of losing the mark of nurgle, then the Banner of Rage works too. A Mark of Khorne for 5 extra points that is SO much better.

RARE

Rare 1: Hellcannon: 205
Point, click, death. This thing looks like a monster on paper; not pts efficient as most empire weapons, but still, this thing looks crazy good at handling... anything

Army Total: 1995

If you can roll Scatter Dice and Leadership tests well, then yes, you're correct. And a lot of people love them. I personally have a long-standing unspoken agreement with the Artillery dice. I don't use it for anything, ever, and it doesn't roll continuous Misfires for me. The Rare slot in a Chaos army is really down to player preference. The Giant, Shaggoth, War Shrines and Hellcannons all have things in their favour, so if you like the Cannon the best then go for it!

I just like my 3+ Ward saves on T6 monsters a bit too much. :headbutt:

 

[Sgt. Mudd]

You have almost half your army points in One lord and One Special. Then you stick them together. first turn they move. second if your lucky they hit the enemy's toughest unit most likely the side that loses will not run. Third turn you lose, don't get their points back. Say you win. The unit you kill will get about half the points back. If you win, forth turn you spend reforming. Fifth and sixth turn you might be able to kill one more weaker unit with them. At 2000 points that kind of point tie up is not a good idea. At 3000 it could work. I've played chaos armies like this, my night goblin army wins against them more than loses.

 

[KhainiteAssassin]

You have almost half your army points in One lord and One Special. Then you stick them together. first turn they move. second if your lucky they hit the enemy's toughest unit most likely the side that loses will not run. Third turn you lose, don't get their points back. Say you win. The unit you kill will get about half the points back. If you win, forth turn you spend reforming. Fifth and sixth turn you might be able to kill one more weaker unit with them. At 2000 points that kind of point tie up is not a good idea. At 3000 it could work. I've played chaos armies like this, my night goblin army wins against them more than loses.

unfortunitly though your partially right on the whole massive ammount of points in a single unit can be bad.

at the same time, Knights have always been expensive but they can do some serious damage if you play them right. Avoid those big killers as best as possible, or charge them at the flanks to take them out. tie them up with cheaper units / warriors.

I dont run knights in my Khorne army currently though, even though I love knights, I dont find them worth their points, myself, if they get caught.