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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Tyrant-258
-Heavy armor
-Brace of Handguns
-Cathayan Longsword
-Spangleshard

Bruiser-155
-BSB

Butcher-180
-Bangstick
-DS

Bulls-205
-5
-AHW
-Bellower

Bulls-244
-6
-AHW
-Bellower

Ironguts-366
-7
-Bellower
-Champ

Ironguts-346
-7
-Bellower

Leadbelchers-120
-2
-Bellower

Leadbelchers-120
-2
-Bellower

Tyrant with the second Ironguts, He gets 6 attacks WS6 I4 he is a force to be reckoned with not to mention the Ironguts backing him up. Bruiser in the 5 bulls. Butcher in the other Ironguts as to benefit from their leadership. Bulls with their support attacks is a must now. Leadbelchers just to try to pop anyone that comes around them. Not great but I'm expecting C&C. I should be within points limits for percentages.
 

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If you want the 6A with the tyrant why give him the longsword? If the plan is to use the longsword only against enemy characters that have WS6 then its not really worth taking- instead think about taking a great weapon: you dont need to use it but it'll be helpful if you come accross big enemy monsters, heavy cav or heavily armoured enemies.
As for his set up I feel its a little weak in general- I think that greedy fist/gut maw/greatskulls are musts on generals. The spangleshard is pretty awful, and if you do the maths (I did it myself but there is a copy of it at 'The Ogre Stronghold') you'll find that the wyrdstone is just plain better. Wyrdstone, greedy fist and luck gnoblar is the basic defensive build that I start with on my tyrant (though the greatskull is nice too).

With the BSB, since he has no magical banner you can give him magical equipment (just not a mundane weapon.. shame or an ironfist, gutplate and HA would be a nice combo). I would be tempted by the armour of silvered steel for a 2+ save (helps keep the vital BSB alive) or the gut maw so that if you arent facing any nasty enemy characters you can challenge and get a few wounds back (or an extra wound).

The butcher is a good set up for 7th ed but illegal in 8th. The dispel scroll is now just a basic arcane item and so you can't take other arcane items with it (and no multiples). Having said that the bangstick has lost its best features- its now just an extra magic missile... but needs PD to cast it. Personally I doubt I'll take it at all in 8th.
The arcane item that I love to take is the skullmantle, which is utterly awesome, but whether to take that or a skullmantle is an iffy one. Does free up some points which can either go on other characters or on getting the broodcleaver or siegebreaker. The first tries to get some of those lost wounds back while the second means the bucher can take on enemy heros (as long as he can surcvive a few rounds- I always miss my attacks).

Bulls- I think that AHW is now pretty rubbish for bulls. I would just keep them with ogre clubs if you are going to use ranks... and I would increse their numbers. In the few games of 8th Ive played with my ogres so far units of 4-5 bulls just didnt do very much: big enemy block units hit before you, are stubborn and you just dont have the survivability to take that for mulitple rounds. I've been using units of 9, and Im not sure if I wont up that to 10-11 (just so I can get hit and still have 2 ranks- certainly helped by characters).

Ironguts- Im not too sure about them- with the nerfing of cavalry and the emergance of lots of large blocks of infantry I think bulls with bruisers (or near the general) may well be a better option (and they are 3/4 the cost, so you get more wounds and more ranks). This all needs a lot of playtesting... but I would keep it in mind when you play with this list.

Leadbelchers- I simply cannot say how much I hate these things... but thats because they hate me and always misfire. If they work for you keep them, but I think that the points would be better spent on a big unit of gnoblar and a scraplauncher- gnoblar are so cheap that they are just necessary (Im using a hoard of them to go up a flank- terrifies the opponent and only costs 60-80pts) and scraplaunchers are just beautiful in the new rules.


As for the new %s composition you shouldnt really worry too much with ogres- you'll never break special and rare can only really be broken with units of maneaters. I've pushed the lord limit by squeesing a tyrant and slaughtermaster into 2k but heroes arent really an issue anymore... and if you havent hit 25% on core then something has gone very seriously wrong :p
 

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If you want the 6A with the tyrant why give him the longsword? If the plan is to use the longsword only against enemy characters that have WS6 then its not really worth taking- instead think about taking a great weapon: you dont need to use it but it'll be helpful if you come accross big enemy monsters, heavy cav or heavily armoured enemies.
Incorect, if you take a special weapon you are required to use it.
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
Tyrant-317
-Great weapon
-Heavy armor
-Brace of Handguns
-Gut maw
-Greedy fist
-Greatskull

Bruiser-185
-BSB
-Gut maw

Butcher-175
-Blood cleaver
-Skullmantle

Bulls-360
-10
-Bellower

Bulls-325
-9
-Bellower

Ironguts-298
-6
-Bellower

Gnoblar fighters-100
-50

Scraplauncher-165

Gorger-75

Updated list seems a little better than before...
 

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Incorect, if you take a special weapon you are required to use it.
Brace of Handguns= special weapon
Cathayan Longsword = special weapon
Looks to me like he was carrying multiple special weapons... which means he gets to choose which to use, but cannot use both. I dont mind being corrected, but I would prefer it to be when I am actually wrong.

The updated list looks good... but I think you misunderstood me about the tyrant's armour: you can only take 1 piece of magical armour (I meant that 1 of the 3 was a must, not all together), although additionally you can never take the same magical item twice in the same game, so the bruiser and the tyrant cannot both have gut maws.
The gnoblar unit should do well to hold a flank and the scraplauncher is going to be awesome in 8th (just try to keep it behind units or outside of 18" of teh enemy.. otherwise its lesser-frenzy will make it declare a charge most turns, even if it doesnt manage to make them).

I like gorgers and solo-maneaters now, they are very useful for holding up the enemy and helping you get the combats you want- which to use is personal preference as they have different strengths: the maneater is less durable and only stubborn but is on the board from the start. while the gorger is stronger, unbreakable, can go warmachine hunting instead but might not turn up for a long while. I was hoping that the FAQ would change the gorger over to a reserve, but I guess that would have made ogres stronger (and GW just can't do that- its against everything they stand for :p)
 

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The list in itself isn't too bad but with the new magic items in the rulebook it seems silly not too use them.
Ogres suffer from crap magic armour syndrome but there are some excellent items that can help and there not that expensive.
The 4+ ward and greedyfist are the way to go with the tyrant now the faq says that a successful ward save triggers the greedyfists ability.
I have no problem with the cathayan longsword as while the added WS is good the extra Init can be game changing.
With the BSB I'd use the 25pt 2+ armour save from the book to give him a chance to survive.
I'd also add in a few std bearers to the units and put the runemaw on a unit of ironguts.
 

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Just a thought, in the new edition, there are weapons that give you initiative of 10 or ASF. Those two things could make your Tyrant much more effective. I think one of them is only 30 points or so as well.
 

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The initiative 10 and ASF weapons are very very cheap- 15-25pts, so are certainly good options. Reason Im not looking at using them is that I rely on my tyrants to do lots of damage... I dont mind too much if I get hit first (why I like the greedy fist + wyrdstone + luck gnoblar option... very little is able to do enough damage to get past that). I think that its certainly better to be I10 rather then have a cathayan longsword- you lose AP but have a magic weapon with double the I.

@neilbatte- I dont know if you're copying my mistake or making your own but the silvered armour isnt 25pts, in fact its very almost double that... expensive but still worth it for BSBs. For any other ogre I would just take an ironfist and settle for a 3+ (with a gutplate). Im not sure I'll use a 4+ ward with my greedyfist- Im happy enough with the wyrdstone, especially when the 5+ and 4+ inv save common items are so costly (the 1in6 games wound off the wyrdstone saves you 10pts... more then fair). I do think its funny that you can have a tyrant with magical heavy armour and a bruiser with heavy armour and a talisman for 1 less point, both with a 5+/4++ save.


I recon the items that I might just have to make use of for 8th are the gold sigil sword (I10), potion of strength (+3S- add that to the tenderiser/siegebreaker just in case of steamtanks), dragonhelm (for the cheap +1 AS, and laugh at bloodthirsters), standard of discipline (to finally get a Ld10 unit), and of course the mighty ironcurse icon 6++ vs war machines). I wonder if its how I think, how the book is designed or just complete fluke that there is only 1 item from each section that I really cant wait to throw on my ogres?
Ok arcane doesnt really thrill me that much (although anyone who used a Hex scroll on Archaon will be pissing themselves) but then I suppose the crown of command for enchanted might just about take its place as the 6th item (though wrong section).


The only problem with all this cool shiny stuff is that it makes me really want even more shiny stuff... where is that new codex when you really want it (its so close... just not close enough).
 
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