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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
HQ:475

Lord Kaldor Draigo

Grand Master Mordrak



Elite:145

Vindicare Assassin



Troops:890

4 Paladins/1 Apothecary
-Psybolt
-2 Incinerators
-4 Halberds, 1 Hammer

4 Paladins/1 Apothecary
-Psybolt Ammo
-2 Psycannons
-4 Halberds, 1 Hammer

5 Ghost Knights
-4 Halberds, 1 Hammer



Heavy Support:415

Dreadknight
-Personal Teleporter
-Heavy Incinerator

5 Purgation Squad
-4 Psycannons



Dedicated Transport:61

Rhino
-Searchlight
-Dozer Blade
-Psybolt Ammo
-Storm Bolter



TOTAL:1986


My basic strategy is to start with Mordrak/Draigo bomb with Ghost Knights Deepstrike into cover/objective or best tactical position for immediate threat/psychological pressure.. Have Dreadknight teleport to support Draigo/Ghosts and use Heavy Incinerator on Troop units, while having the Bomb act as distraction/annoyance/clean-up. Foot slog Paladin Squads to shooting and then close combat range for back-up on elites/IC and to hold objectives. Purgation Squad moves within 24" inside Rhino using it as cover and shoots with Astral Aim. Vindicare Assasin inside cover acting as anti-tank support.

This list is mainly for fun but also meant to be somewhat competitive, as I always play to win lol. It wasn't built around facing one army or any one opponent in particular.

So what do you guys think? Anything you would change/remove/add, and if so, why? What weaknesses do you see? And what armies will be the most difficult to face, and vice versa, what armies do you think this list would excel against?

Thank you for the feedback/knowledge/wisdom.
 

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Wargear Costs

When posting do not list the individual points cost of wargear and items. This violates GW copyright. Only detail the overall points total of each selection. On the same note do not give away detailed information on the effect of a specific item.
 

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it is an interesting concept but i will let you know be prepared for the dogma that follows. I will not tell you its bad. I will tell you to test it out and be prepared to make modifications.

check your points on the paladins you are adding them incorrectly or have mistaken the representation of how they work. you buy 5 models for 55 pts and can upgrade 1 of them for 75 pts more into an apoth as well at the same time can have 2 models have 2 special weapons per 5 models. 55x5+75+40+20=410 an honest mistake that can happen so dont worry about it.

One of your issues that could arise is that you are short on bodies so taking objectives will bring hardship. To try and mitigate this try dropping the apothecaries and incinerators from the paladin squads. take one whole squad of 10 add the 4 psycannons and keep the psyammo you only pay 20 and can still combat squad them they all keep the psyammo.

Drop the puragations squad and try to get 2 strike squads 220 will give you 10 models with 2 psycannons drop the dozer blades storm bolter from the rhino as well.

these are just suggestions. on turn 1 i suggest you have the dreadnight on the board he covers mordrak/draig back if all goes well they should be somewhat fine. good luck
 

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No. You have 10 scoring models.

The Ghost Knights are NOT troops, they are part of Mordrak's retinue, and must be attached to his squad. They don't score unless you use Grand Strategy to do so.

You have no flier support, so you're going to have issues with anything that can field them cheaply. TEQ have less to worry about from Baleflamers, but even so...

Drop the Paladin Incinerators for Psycannons, as they're far superior. Use points from the Rhino, you don't need that many upgrades.
 

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No. You have 10 scoring models.

The Ghost Knights are NOT troops, they are part of Mordrak's retinue, and must be attached to his squad. They don't score unless you use Grand Strategy to do so.

You have no flier support, so you're going to have issues with anything that can field them cheaply. TEQ have less to worry about from Baleflamers, but even so...

Drop the Paladin Incinerators for Psycannons, as they're far superior. Use points from the Rhino, you don't need that many upgrades.
SORRY My Friend but you are mistaken about the paladins, you dont have 10 scoring models you can have up to 2 scoring units from the paladins as they can only form 2 units the way he has them written. if he bought them individually then he could have up to well the amount that is allowed as per rules affect 6 units one model is still considered a unit in GW. Mordrak and his ghost knights are a retinue correct but they can "never" be a scoring units faq. you can attach draigo to them and DS first turn if you choose to though.

I second the notion from your other items of recommendation.
 

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HQ:675

Lord Kaldor Draigo

Grand Master Mordrak + 5 Ghost Knights

As per Xabre's point, techincally the Ghost Knights are more like an upgrade that Mordrak buys rather than a separate unit. Also it helps to put them with Mordrak up here so I can talk about the 'bomb' as one unit. Also, note that I changed the points of the HQ section to reflect this.

First off, it's a pretty good idea. Mordrak can be effective if supported and nobody really likes having 6 terminators appear in their deployment zone turn 1. What makes this unit even better is the inclusion of Draigo. Because Draigo is 2+/3++ with Eternal Warrior, you can put him at the front of the circle and force him to take the saves for the unit which means you have a good chance that more of your terminator 'bomb' will survive, since they are unlikely to be vaporized by low AP weapons.

Now, the downside. As you can see, you are sinking almost a third of your points in one unit. Not only that, but you will yield 'Slay the Warlord' if the unit dies. It's also worth 2 victory points in 'Purge the Alien'. If your opponent gains 'First Blood' too, that's between 2 and 4 Victory Points you have conceded and you would have to earn that back with a force almost a third smaller in terms of points.

Now on balance, I'd still be tempted to use this unit, mainly because I think the inclusion of Draigo makes it even harder to kill as a unit, especially if you position Draigo correctly. But, I would only keep it on the proviso that you bring more units to support your 'bomb'. But more on that later...

Elite:145

Vindicare Assassin

Pretty stable Elite choice. I include on in pretty much every list of mine over 1500 points. Nothing to add here.

Troops:790

4 Paladins/1 Apothecary
-Psybolt
-2 Incinerators
-4 Halberds, 1 Hammer

4 Paladins/1 Apothecary
-Psybolt Ammo
-2 Psycannons
-4 Halberds, 1 Hammer

First off, I think there is an error somewhere here. I total up the points of these two paladin units and get 790 points, which is 100 points less than that total. I've amended it as such.

Moving on. I think 1 paladin unit is good. 2 wounds and the ability for up to four psycannons is always a good move. However, given that you already low on models I would advise against two units of them.

Also, and I'm sure several people will agree with me, an apothecary is too cheap to put in a 5 man squad. In a 10 man paladin squad it becomes more worth while, but 15 points a model for Feel No Pain is a bit too steep I feel. Some would say that same about Psybolt ammunition on a 5 man squad.

Heavy Support:415

Dreadknight
-Personal Teleporter
-Heavy Incinerator

Good unit. I find mine serves me well and it's good to pressure your opponent along with your 'bomb'.

5 Purgation Squad
-4 Psycannons

Psycannons hurt, fact. Four of them needing no line of sight is not fun for anyone.

Dedicated Transport:61

Rhino
-Searchlight
-Dozer Blade
-Psybolt Ammo
-Storm Bolter

Honestly, most of these upgrades are largely useless. Searchlight, I'd get rid of. Same for the Dozer Blade. The extra Storm Bolter and Psycannon bolts is an interesting choice. Worth 15 points?Well, seeing how 60% of the time it's causing a wound on a basic Grey Knights, I might be tempted to say so. Plus you can still fire 2 psycannons out of the hatch as well. But only if you have points to spare.

TOTAL:2086

My basic strategy is to start with Mordrak/Draigo bomb with Ghost Knights Deepstrike into cover/objective or best tactical position for immediate threat/psychological pressure.. Have Dreadknight teleport to support Draigo/Ghosts and use Heavy Incinerator on Troop units, while having the Bomb act as distraction/annoyance/clean-up. Foot slog Paladin Squads to shooting and then close combat range for back-up on elites/IC and to hold objectives. Purgation Squad moves within 24" inside Rhino using it as cover and shoots with Astral Aim. Vindicare Assasin inside cover acting as anti-tank support.

This list is mainly for fun but also meant to be somewhat competitive, as I always play to win lol. It wasn't built around facing one army or any one opponent in particular.

So what do you guys think? Anything you would change/remove/add, and if so, why? What weaknesses do you see? And what armies will be the most difficult to face, and vice versa, what armies do you think this list would excel against?

Thank you for the feedback/knowledge/wisdom.
Now I could bore you with how you should take Coteaz etc, but your core set up doesn't allow for that. Plus, I'm kind of tempted to see how Mordrak + Draigo works out :p

But keeping in the vain of your 'bomb' tactic, you need more units to swarm your opponent's deployment zone. I would suggest something like this.

HQ:

Lord Kaldor Draigo = 275 points

Grand Master Mordrak + 5 Ghost Knights + 4 Nemesis Force Halberds + 1 Nemesis Daemon hammer = 400 points

Elites:

Vindicare Assassin = 145 points

Troops:

Grey Knight Strike Squad (10 man) + 2 Psycannons + Psybolt Ammunition + Rhino = 280 points

Grey Knight Strike Squad (10 man) + 2 Psycannons + Psybolt Ammunition + Rhino = 280 points

Fast Attack:

Grey Knight Interceptor Squad (10 man) + 2 Psycannon + Psybolt Ammunition = 300 points

Heavy support:

Nemesis Dreadknight + Personal Teleporter + Heavy Incinerator = 235 points

Total: 1770 points

Now, this list gives you 230 points to play with. You could buy a 5 man Interceptor squad to have even more things in your opponent's deployment zone. Or you could have some Purifiers for more psycannons. Or a Psyrifle Dreadnought. Choice is yours really.

With 2 Grand Strategies you can (hopefully) give your Nemesis Dreadknight and Interceptor squad Scout. That means they can be just in front of your opponent's deployment zone (since they can't enter it during the Scout move) when Mordrak & co arrive. Then they also get a 12" move and can assault, putting real pressure on your opponent and distracting a few unit's attention from Mordrak and co while they can't assault.

You've still got one of your two Grand Strategies left to use. You could give your Strike squads in their Rhinos Scout, to get them closer to your opponents and increase the pressure on your opponent to act. Or you could make your Interceptors and Dreadknight scoring. Or make them re-roll to wounds of 1. Or give them Counter Attack. That part is largely up to you, but I think the first option would be more in keeping with this list's 'theme'.

Hopefully something somewhere in all that is helpful :victory:
 

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SORRY My Friend but you are mistaken about the paladins, you dont have 10 scoring models you can have up to 2 scoring units from the paladins as they can only form 2 units the way he has them written. if he bought them individually then he could have up to well the amount that is allowed as per rules affect 6 units one model is still considered a unit in GW. Mordrak and his ghost knights are a retinue correct but they can "never" be a scoring units faq. you can attach draigo to them and DS first turn if you choose to though.

Wait... What?

There are 10 Paladins.

Each paladin is a model.

Only the Paladins score in the whole army. Hey look. That's 10 scoring models.

I did not say that there were 10 scoring squads.
 

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[obligatory disclaimer] Draigowing isn't a very good army. It suffers from a horrendous lack of scoring models and mobility, and doesn't even have the insane survivability it had in 5th Edition.[/obligatory disclaimer]

You really need to sort out which way you want to go with this lists.

Mordrak works alright by himself.

Draigowing can work, as long as you build it OK.

The two don't really work together. The link provided by Luelen contains what I would consider to be the strongest lists you can field with Mordrak. It's possible that there are other ways to play it, but I don't see them, and I haven't come across anyone else who has seen them either.

If I were to build Draigowing, I'd be looking to allies. Either Necrons, Imperial Guard or Tau.
 

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So what do you guys think? Anything you would change/remove/add, and if so, why? What weaknesses do you see? And what armies will be the most difficult to face, and vice versa, what armies do you think this list would excel against?

Thank you for the feedback/knowledge/wisdom.
it is an interesting concept but i will let you know be prepared for the dogma that follows.
Be very aware my friend that a comment like this is completely inappropriate given the invitation from the OP quoted above.
Sound advice is not "Dogma" and adding a criticism forestaller does not in any way enhance your own view. Such use borders on personal attacks.


Moving on from that,

The list is created as a fun one which is great but also "somewhat competitive". Nothing can change the fact that 10 scoring models out of an army that only contains 30 models all up at 2k will be dealt with fairly severely by nearly any army out there, particularly since 6 of those models are designated to be Deep Struck into "Bandit Country" turn one.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
ok thank you everyone for all the advice, amends, and feedback. i'm still pretty new to this i don't even have a rulebook and have yet to even buy all the models yet lol. but i like to play with different ideas for the lists i make.
but anyway, yes i misunderstood the rules for the apothecary in the paladin squad i assumed that out of the 5 models in the paladin squad 1 became the apothecary. i didn't think i'd have to buy another box of 5 just to add 1 model to the unit. but i'd like to keep the paladins in the army. i know they're expensive but from the looks of it if you don't like expensive units grey knights aren't the right army for you. i think they are worth an extra 15 points in comparison to a regular terminator for the extra wound. plus i like the solidarity they give and the overall threat is nice. but i may consider trading them in for some strike squads instead as i could get a lot more models on the table and as far as troops go they are a lot stronger than the basic troop choices for most other armies.
 

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but anyway, yes i misunderstood the rules for the apothecary in the paladin squad i assumed that out of the 5 models in the paladin squad 1 became the apothecary. i didn't think i'd have to buy another box of 5 just to add 1 model to the unit.
He does. Or more's the point the minimum number of models in a Paladin unit is 1. So 4 Paladins plus an Apothecary is fine, you don't need to go and buy anymore mini's ...... yet ;)

Paladins are very strong that's why the cost so much and why they are so vulnerable. In the game fewer elite troops are taken out easier than more mid level troops and far easier than crap tonnes of "chaff" troops.

The key is finding that point where you troops are both good and survivable.


but yea my plan was to stick draigo in with mordrak and the ghost knights into one unit. for some reason i thought the ghost knights went into troops, but i still intended to have them all in one unit, doing like someone above said, having draigo soak up the wounds. the dreadknight would come in with them right after for more support and to also sap up some wounds because i don't want all those points invested into my hq to die and go to waste early in the game.
The problem with that is that a large chunk of your army is very much in harm's way right from the get go. It can work but does require all the stars to line up and it can go very bad very quick with some bad dice. It depends very much on the enemy you are facing but Terminator armoured units fall apart very quickly of there is a reasonable amount of AP2 about, if that is the case then the only real solution is great numbers.


i gave the paladins incinerators because they're cheaper and because i think they are good for taking out large numbers of weak units. i don't want to put strong against strong with my paladins, i would rather have them come in and take out the easy guys and i thought the incinerator would be better for that.
The problem is that with so few models you need your guys to be able to take on any target. The psycannon is supreme in that. The incinerator is great for a unit that will strike into the enemy but in a lot of cases it will find itself out of range so you squad loses a lot of much needed firepower.

i don't understand why no one seems like to purgation squads though, they are really cheap and get more heavy weapons than any other squad in the army and astral aim is awesome.
They suffer from a lack of range. If you can team up some Tehmarines with Conversion beamers with them or put them manning heavy bolters (with Psybolt !) or a Quad gun , they become much more useful. A fire support unit with weapons that have the same range as the units they are supporting isn't much of a support.

... i wouldn't be disappointed with a loss i just wanna have fun.
Mordrak lists are certainly that! They can generate some awesome results, they can also lose you the game turn 2 ! Sometimes that sort of risk makes for a better game IMO.

i like the idea of mordrak and what he brings to the table. i don't want to run coteaz like everyone else. i wanted to make a unique list that hopefully is still effective.
And fair enough too. Maybe Mordrak added to a GKSS dominant list will be a way to go as you still get that great turn 1 in your facedness. Draigo + Paladins + Mordrak is REALLY making life hard for yourself !
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
ok here is the list again but slightly tweaked to add some more bodies, and the paladin/apothecary issue is fixed also.

HQ:675
1 Lord Kaldor Draigo
1 Grand Master Mordrak //+// 5 Ghost knights
a. - 4 Halberds, 1 Hammer
Elite:145
1 Vindicare Assassin
Troops:630
5 Paladins/1 Apothecary
a. -Psybolt Ammo
b. -2 Psycannons
c. -4 Halberds, 1 Hammer
10 man Strike Squad Unit
a. Psybolt Ammo
Heavy Support:515
1 Dreadknight
a. -Personal Teleporter
b. -Heavy Incinerator
5 Purgation Squad
a. -4 Psycannons
5 Purgation Squad
a. -4 Incinerators

total 1965 if i added everything correctly.

this adds more models to the list. i decided to keep the purgation squad and add another because per model they are the same price as a strike squad but get 4 weapons instead of 1 plus they have astral aim. i see no reason why not to use them. i cut the number of paladins in half and used the points to throw in a man strike squad unit. didn't give them any psycannons or anything, just bolters with psybolt ammo but now that i'm thinking about it i have enough points to give them psycannons so i will do that then...

same overall strategy...have mordrak and knights with draigo in one unit and have them deepstrike no scatter. bring dreadknight in after to support. hoping this causes enough havoc and distraction until i can get the strike squad and paladins up before my bomber unit dies. have the vindicare in cover taking out tanks and whatever else he can. keep one purgation squad with the psycannons at a distance shooting while the squad with the incinerators moves up into range. 4 incerators for free is a bargain, guess i would give them all halberds in case they get into CC for the extra I.

and thanks for all the advice everyone. i know the list is somewhat unorthodox, but i think it will be fun to play and pretty effective. it was by no means meant to be a draigowing list. and as far as including allies, i'd rather not i like my grey knights. i think draigo and mordrak will work nicely together as draigo will really beef up the unit and they need the support to not get taken out since they are going into danger. i thought about using a librarian instead and/or using interceptor squads for support but i like this idea better and after upgrading a librarian he's not that much cheaper than draigo anyway.
and i don't really know what a scoring unit is or what it means lol.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
@coke123
i've already seen the hq one actually :) looking over the troops one now, thanks great stuff. but this list wasn't meant to be a paladin based army it was supposed to be mainly focused around mordrak and making his deepstrike rule effective. as i thought throwing him in with draigo and the ghost knights would be a good way to combat the problem grey knights have of being a somewhat slow army. i added draigo in because i thought he would increase the survivability of mordrak's unit. and then since i like paladins and draigo makes them troops i figured why not throw some in.
however in the amended but similar list i took out one of the paladin squads and added a 10 man strike squad.

when i first got the grey knights codex a coteaz/henchmen list was actually my first/main focus this was actually the first list i ever made and posted on here lol

HQ:
Mordrak 5x Ghosts, Coteaz

Elites:
10x Paladins
10x Purifiers

Troops:
8x DCA, 4x Crusaders
8x DCA, 4x Crusaders
8x Warrior Acolytes, 4x Crusaders
8x Warrior Acolytes, 4x Crusaders

Heavy Support:
2x Dreads with twin linked auto cannons/psybolt ammo.

Comes to around 2000 points.

not sure why i stuck mordrak in there now that i look back on it as there is nothing to support him, i didn't get much feedback on that post. if i were to do it now i'd drop mordrak and the purifiers, cut the paladins in half, add some rhinos and/or razorbacks for the henchmen and possibly throw in a librarian or switch something u[ for some strike squads.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
here is another henchman list i posted, just tossing ideas around.


(
This is a list I'm working on, not sure about what upgrades and weapons to use so it kind of varies until I get a better feel for the game, but it goes something like:

HQ:
Coteaz
Elites:
10x Paladins
Troops:
two groups 5x Deathcult Assassins, 3x Crusaders, 2x Jakaero
Fast Attack: (only in higher point games)
2x Stormravens (I was only going to use one but they seem to be big targets and I thought it better to have two.)
Heavy Support:
2x Dreadnoughts with twin-linked auto cannons

Basically my thinking is have the paladins deep strike to the center of the board. Shoot and advance. With the henchmen groups I would just march them up allowing the crusaders in front to soak up any firepower until my deathcults get into range and using the jakearo for the bonuses and some added firepower. or stick them in the stormravens and bring them up. and the dreadnoughts i'd leave in the back or as far as possible and use them to blow up tanks and anything else my men on foot can't tackle.
So, what do you guys think?
 

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ok here is the list again but slightly tweaked to add some more bodies, and the paladin/apothecary issue is fixed also.
Just to be clear there is no "Apothecary Issue"
The minimum number of Paladins in a squad is 1 and any single model in a paladin squad can be upgraded to an Apothecary. So you could have a single Apothecary all by himself.

The only real issue is the number of points you have to pay to get FNP for a squad.
 
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