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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hi there.
Testing this one, have to resort to proxies and papercraft for the time being... Eh, anyway, any good criticism is welcome :)
Didn't see horde or mass-flyer lists at the local hobby store, AV14 is also very rare, but trying to build this list as a generalist all-comers one. Expecting a lot of movement and sometimes through diff terrain, so almost everything have dozer blades. If someone has any better use for the points to suggest - go ahead, I'd be glad to hear it.
Only listing choices and changes, ie no stock stuff like chimera's HB and multilaser.

Primaris psyker, lvl 2, divination
Primaris psyker, lvl 2, divination

Tank commander squad
punisher - Pask, multi-meltas, lascannon, dozer, warlord
executioner - plasma spons, lascannon, dozer

Veterans - chimera (dozer), HFlamer, 2x plasma, bolter sergeant, grenadiers
Veterans - chimera (dozer), HFlamer, 2x plasma, bolter sergeant, grenadiers

Command squad - chimera (dozer), HFlamer, 3x plasma, master of ordnance (laspistol), carapace for vets

Hellhound - dozer

Vendetta

2x wyverns (in one unit)

Executioner - plasma spons, lascannon

Executioner - plasma spons, lascannon

List is based on another mechanized one from this forum, modifications made for fun and local gaming conditions.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
So kick the plasma cannons shame i know
Yeah, I know statistically speaking they tend to wreck themselves if firing full power all 5-6 turns. And only have like 7.4% of not losing any HP within the same game (have made the calculations). But:

a) the one with Pask have re-roll of ones, including 'gets hot' results, so he's pretty much safe with only 1/72 for each shot to get a glancing hit.

b) two psykers with divination' primaris can provide good support with rerolls, both for accuracy and rerolling ones.

c) I don't have to fire full 5 shots every turn with each tank - only when it's necessary and when danger outweighs the risk.

Sure, they even can all wreck very fast with their own shots, but it's not that scary with the kind of firepower they provide. Also, support can mitigate the risk somewhat.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I am a fan of this list.
Thanks! I've only had two battles with similar list, before the modifications (has third vet squad in place of command one, and two 5-man tempest drop suiciders with meltas in place of hellhound).

Do you use a list like this?
 

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I do, though I don't use Wyverns, the Hellhound, or half the upgrades you take with your vehicles and vets. While I play Pask the same, I pair him with a Demolisher armed with Heavy Bolters everywhere. I also don't have four Executioner/Punisher/Demolisher variants of the Leman Russ right now so I use a pair of Battle Tanks and a Manticore when I want more AV.

I have to agree that the Plasma sponsons on the Executioner are often more of a detriment than amazing at generating more wounds. After playing several games with one (some of them with dual Executioners) I think I'm going to keep mine with Heavy Bolter or Multi Meltas, or just bare on the sides when I play them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
I do, though I don't use Wyverns, the Hellhound, or half the upgrades you take with your vehicles and vets. While I play Pask the same, I pair him with a Demolisher armed with Heavy Bolters everywhere. I also don't have four Executioner/Punisher/Demolisher variants of the Leman Russ right now so I use a pair of Battle Tanks and a Manticore when I want more AV.

I have to agree that the Plasma sponsons on the Executioner are often more of a detriment than amazing at generating more wounds. After playing several games with one (some of them with dual Executioners) I think I'm going to keep mine with Heavy Bolter or Multi Meltas, or just bare on the sides when I play them.
I see. How do you arm Battle Tanks? They aren't that effective in AV role, to be honest, with only one 8 str shot with AP 3 (no bonus on damage table), even as they're ordnance and large blast... Also ordnance means they can't effectively use lascannon or multimeltas after firing the main gun.

For the plasma sponsons - I'm planning on magnetizing anyway, so I'd have lot of opportunities to try various upgrades and sponson variants. Also, see my prev post with points about mitigating 'gets hot' risk.

Edit: Oh, also - how do you equip your vets if you take them but don't use upgrades that I choose?
 

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Oh, I read you post about stopping them from getting hot and that's effective. I've run one with Pask a few times and stopped some damage for sure, I guess dice have been jerks to me and 5 Get's Hot! rolls is enough apparently. Never had any inclination toward keeping my Psykers next to my tanks to maintain Prescience range and never really wanted to move my Executioners up too close to the enemy.

My Battle Tanks I play with Heavy Bolter sponsons mostly because that's how they came to me (after some cutting of glued in guns, anyway) and I'm not too keen on cutting the whole sponson off, repairing, and magnetizing them up. I will say that even though they are Snap Shots, 18 shots from the two tanks together has generated those crucial extra armour saves for my enemy frequently enough that I'm happy taking them (not to mention avoiding the occasional Weapon Destroyed result). As for their main weapon, I play against a lot of Chaos Space Marine and Space Marine lists in my group and that Instant Death AP3 pie plate is great.

My vets I run just with the Heavy Flamer and twin Melta Guns. No Bolter or Grenadiers stuff, and really the Heavy Flamer barely ever gets used even though I'm gunning for Melta range often with them (when they're not being used as deterrents toward enemy armour movement). When I play Psykers with them I typically give them a Force Axe just to hide some AP2 in the unit if they end up in combat with something they shouldn't be.

As a look into the way I play my Guard, this is a list I thoroughly enjoy playing at 2k. I know it's a bit different than the list you've posted, but it's easy enough to move some stuff around and play Pask as well.

 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Oh, I read you post about stopping them from getting hot and that's effective. I've run one with Pask a few times and stopped some damage for sure, I guess dice have been jerks to me and 5 Get's Hot! rolls is enough apparently. Never had any inclination toward keeping my Psykers next to my tanks to maintain Prescience range and never really wanted to move my Executioners up too close to the enemy.

My Battle Tanks I play with Heavy Bolter sponsons mostly because that's how they came to me (after some cutting of glued in guns, anyway) and I'm not too keen on cutting the whole sponson off, repairing, and magnetizing them up. I will say that even though they are Snap Shots, 18 shots from the two tanks together has generated those crucial extra armour saves for my enemy frequently enough that I'm happy taking them (not to mention avoiding the occasional Weapon Destroyed result). As for their main weapon, I play against a lot of Chaos Space Marine and Space Marine lists in my group and that Instant Death AP3 pie plate is great.

My vets I run just with the Heavy Flamer and twin Melta Guns. No Bolter or Grenadiers stuff, and really the Heavy Flamer barely ever gets used even though I'm gunning for Melta range often with them (when they're not being used as deterrents toward enemy armour movement). When I play Psykers with them I typically give them a Force Axe just to hide some AP2 in the unit if they end up in combat with something they shouldn't be.

As a look into the way I play my Guard, this is a list I thoroughly enjoy playing at 2k. I know it's a bit different than the list you've posted, but it's easy enough to move some stuff around and play Pask as well.

Nice list! Yeah, I see your points about taking a different approach for building an army. Different environment, and different modelling restrictions. I personally dislike gunlines, for being too static - that's why I try to be very mobile. I also have a few marine players here, but I guess I'll be ok against them. Only played against one weird testing list, with lots of melee and cover-camping scouts (one of them took eight hit rolls on my scatter from wyverns, so opposing player just removed the whole squad, lol). And bolters are just for fun, it's 1998 pts without them, so why not.

Psykers - I took advice from author of list I'm basing mine on, so they don't join any units and just stau solo. It's not very hard to keep a single model out of sight: buildings with windows (move - cast - run back in shooting phase), tanks themselves are big enough to hide them completely from most dangers. It's not only useful to cast Prescience, but if I roll 4+ invul spell then it's a blessing for Pask's unit (literaly and figuratively), since I only need to keep one tank from that unit in range to cast it. With 2 psykers chances to get it are pretty high.

Plasma range on tanks is good enough, they don't need to move far from deployment zone even if we get the short table sides deploy. But I yet have to face gunline or out-shooting me army, maybe then I'd need to move a lot. That also helps keeping psykers out of enemy's range and attention.

By the way, master of ordnance needs to stay still to fire it's famout pie plate, if I get it right? Or his chimera, anyway.

Inquisitors have a nice upgrade for up to three servo-skulls, they're only 3 pts each, and can deny scout/infiltrators, while also improving scatter accuracy. Sure they get destroyed if enemy gets within 6", but with some strategic placing they can more than serve right for their negligeble cost. I've been thinking for getting one inquis in that list just for this purpose, but that's too much points I have to get from somewhere (25 + 9). Your list already have one, so consider taking the skulls :)
 

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tanks themselves are big enough to hide them completely from most dangers
Just watch how close you get if you're up against someone with a lot of blast weapons. Being able to place the marker anywhere on the vehicle's hull with a large, or even sometimes small, template can lead to a lot of excess wounds out of LoS.

By the way, master of ordnance needs to stay still to fire it's famout pie plate, if I get it right?
It's a shooting attack with type Ordnance isn't it? Pretty sure only tanks can move and fire Ordnance.

Inquisitors have a nice upgrade for up to three servo-skulls
I know all about them Skulls, use 'em all the time. My other armies include Drop Pod oriented Blood Angels, Deathwing terminators, and Grey Knights and they're a great help with that much stuff Deep Striking.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Just watch how close you get if you're up against someone with a lot of blast weapons. Being able to place the marker anywhere on the vehicle's hull with a large, or even sometimes small, template can lead to a lot of excess wounds out of LoS.
Yup, need to watch out for that.

It's a shooting attack with type Ordnance isn't it? Pretty sure only tanks can move and fire Ordnance.
Yeah, but he isn't the one actually firing... Thought probably it's a special case or something. Not that I have a lot of dependance on his shooting anyway :)

I know all about them Skulls, use 'em all the time. My other armies include Drop Pod oriented Blood Angels, Deathwing terminators, and Grey Knights and they're a great help with that much stuff Deep Striking.
Great! Then let me use your experience for my benefit, hehe. My list have a LOT of blasts, but no deepstriking units. Is it a good idea to add inquisitor with skulls? They could be countered easily, and effective range for blast targets is not that good... What would you suggest?
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
It's a shooting attack with type Ordnance isn't it? Pretty sure only tanks can move and fire Ordnance.
Ahh, by the way, just remembered one fun combo. Place inquisitor with psyocculum in command squad with master of ordnance. Enter BS 10 psyker sniping with large pie-plate. :biggrin: Lot of armies employ at least some form of psykers, and if I remember correctly, you don't even need to target psyker himself for this to work, only his unit.

Crazy, but fun.
 

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Yeah, but he isn't the one actually firing...
Well,

Artillery Bombardment (Master of Ordnance only): The Master of Ordnance may
make a shooting attack
with the following profile:
Range - Infinite
S - 9
AP - 3
seems pretty clear to me that it's him that's making a shooting attack and thus the rules for Infantry firing Ordnance apply. Is there anything you've found that points to it being an independent attack?

Is it a good idea to add inquisitor with skulls?
I use the Skulls to bring in Deep Striking units effectively, and as a side bonus I deny Infiltrators. In all the games I've used them I haven't even been able to capitalize on the Blast scatter effect.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Well,
seems pretty clear to me that it's him that's making a shooting attack and thus the rules for Infantry firing Ordnance apply. Is there anything you've found that points to it being an independent attack?
Well, just for the heck of it... Let's discuss that :)

Paragraph about ordnance speaks about carrying ordnance weapon, firing ordnance weapon. And a shooting attack with a certain profile is not a weapon. MoO doesn't have ordnance weapon in his wargear list, only a special rule that makes him shoot with a certain attack profile. So he's not carrying one, and not firing one.

I know, I know, rules are not completely watertight and some terms are pretty vague. Like that issue with order of fire and ordnance. Not going to exploit that, just figuring out usual tabletop community ruling of cases like this.
 

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Yeah, I'm pretty over the nitty little rules discussions with people outside of my gaming group. Post that sucker up in the rules section of the forum if you really want to put it to the test.

As a tank-ification of my list idea on the last page and tailoring it a bit more to my tastes and model collection while still keeping a few of your ideas in:

 

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Discussion Starter · #17 · (Edited)
Yeah, I'm pretty over the nitty little rules discussions with people outside of my gaming group. Post that sucker up in the rules section of the forum if you really want to put it to the test.
Sure, maybe later I'd do that. I was working as a game designer for a few years, so getting into the thick of rules and game mechanics is kinda professional deformation :)

As a tank-ification of my list idea on the last page and tailoring it a bit more to my tastes and model collection while still keeping a few of your ideas in:

Looking good! I'd recommend two things:

1. Add officer of the fleet to the command squad. You have a lot of stuff in reserve, so +1 to each roll for mere 20 pts is great and useful.

2. Not sure about volley guns... Placing tempestus in vendettas screams "mobility", but volley guns shoot much better while stationary, so it's somewhat self-defeating. I doubt little squads survive that long standing still to put them to a good use.

Also, no psykers? Not that they're needed that much, just curious.
 

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Two transports with units in Reserve isn't enough for me to spend points on manipulation typically, if I've got 50%+ coming on by the dice without T1 hyjinks then I'll get something going on. Typically I don't use the MoO either, that was just something I figured I'd leave in from your list in the OP. You are right, 20 points for +1 to each roll is a steal.

I'm not sure about Volley Guns either, but they are there to be either a nuisance to a unit out in the open or late-game Objective grabbers. I much prefer to use Special Weapon Teams with Flamers for this role, but without an Infantry Platoon that just isn't the way it goes. I was also toying with the idea of putting the Inquisitor in with the MoO and using Acolytes with HSLs in the Vendettas, but it turns out the Acolytes aren't less expensive enough to accommodate for their BS3 over the Scion's BS4. Since once those models land they really aren't that mobile (I've been playing Blood Angels for years, 6" movement isn't much in the big picture) I figured having one guy that shot like two would be nice considering there's no worries from Get's Hot.

I tend to either go hard with Psykers or completely ignore them. Perfect example being that my last list had 7 Mastery Level points, this one none.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Two transports with units in Reserve isn't enough for me to spend points on manipulation typically, if I've got 50%+ coming on by the dice without T1 hyjinks then I'll get something going on. Typically I don't use the MoO either, that was just something I figured I'd leave in from your list in the OP. You are right, 20 points for +1 to each roll is a steal.

I'm not sure about Volley Guns either, but they are there to be either a nuisance to a unit out in the open or late-game Objective grabbers. I much prefer to use Special Weapon Teams with Flamers for this role, but without an Infantry Platoon that just isn't the way it goes. I was also toying with the idea of putting the Inquisitor in with the MoO and using Acolytes with HSLs in the Vendettas, but it turns out the Acolytes aren't less expensive enough to accommodate for their BS3 over the Scion's BS4. Since once those models land they really aren't that mobile (I've been playing Blood Angels for years, 6" movement isn't much in the big picture) I figured having one guy that shot like two would be nice considering there's no worries from Get's Hot.

I tend to either go hard with Psykers or completely ignore them. Perfect example being that my last list had 7 Mastery Level points, this one none.
I see. I absolutely love tempest bros, with move through cover and deepstriking without any need for transport (though it synergizes with grav chutes well too), just can't figure a good place for them in my list... Anyway, plan on gettig 2-3 units of them - at least for the beret heads for the veterans. Russian special forces-style :) And leave tempest themselves with helmets on, it's a bit more fluffier. Lot of heads in 5-minis kit.
 

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That kit is probably one of the coolest kits GW has come out with IMHO. I've wanted them since first seeing them, but I tend to not buy models without having a place in a list for them. I've play-tested it using the models I used to play as Stormtroopers in the previous edition, but they haven't grabbed me. It's exceptionally rare for me to even think about the Elites section of the AM Codex. Were I to get them I would likely use the models to build up my Inquisitor's warband over using them as Scions, with the extra bits showing up for flavour in my Guard.
 
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