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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a 2K game this coming weekend and considering running the following.

HQ
Librarian; Level 2, Terminator Armour (Divination Powers)

Troops
Tactical; PG, ML w/Flakk, Stormbolter
Tactical; PG, ML w/Flakk, Stormbolter
Tactical; PG, LC, Stormbolter
Tactical; MG, LC, Stormbolter
Tactical; MG, MM, Stormbolter
Tactical; MG, MM, Stormbolter

Fast
Assault; 10 man squad, Vet. Sgt, Power Maul
Assault; 10 man squad, Vet. Sgt, Power Maul

Heavy
Devastator; 10 man squad, 2 HB, 2 PC
Devastator; 10 man squad, 2 LC, 2 ML w/Flakk

So, the tactical squads will combat out at the start of the game with the sergeant going with the special weapon group while the other 5 camp with the heavy weapons. The Devastators will do the same and split with same weapons, meaning the 2 HB will go in the same Combat Squad. The Assault squads will stay together and plow into whatever they need to in order to hold up the opponent's unit I send them after, maybe even wipe them out.

As always, C&C is welcome.
 

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Oh god. I face this list every time I play one of my friends, though he plays three Devastator squads (4x ML, 4x PC, 4x LC). It's brutal to face, like really brutal. You wouldn't think 100 marines would be so tough...

As for the list.

Flakk is a bit useless if you're not putting it in IF Devastator squads so that they can have a chance against AV12 fliers with Tank Hunter. 5's to Glance and no ability to Explode is even less reliable than it was in the last edition to bring them down in a turn of shooting.

Spend the 30 points that you put on Stormbolters on Special weapons for your Assault squads, and for the love of all things killed and not dented drop the Mauls for something AP3. Unless you know you're not facing many 3+ saves, but as a BA player who loves his Reclusiarch model I have dented many a traitor's head in challenges only to fail my own damn armour save two or three rounds later. Personal gripe I suppose :laugh:

As far as your Heavy Support goes, you have SO MUCH to shoot with you should look to armour penetration with these guys instead of Heavy Bolters. When I faced an army similar the only things I had left on the table were a Land Raider Redeemer and a Baal Predator, and they were killing things left right and centre (I was within 3-5 models of tabling him). I know ya got Melta in your Tacticals, but they aren't going to get very close to back-line shooting units that will demolish your MSU idea quick. My Guard army would love to face this, even more so if you make everything 5 man squads and easier to kill with large blast templates.

Hope this gets some thoughts stirrin'! :drinks:
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
It certainly does, thanks

The ML will definitely move out of the tactical squads and into the Devastators. The HBs and Stormbolters have actually proved very successful for me lately. I've managed in previous games, not with this list, to now down a fair number of opposing infantry, which the HB benefits nicely from IF tactics.

As for the Maul on the Assault sergeants, axes instead?
 

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In that case, why not swap the HBs into the Tactical squads and the MLs into the Devastators? All your Bolters in one place, so to speak.

You could go axes on the Sergeants, I love hiding a couple in my Death Company but they're a very different unit in CC. On my Assault squads I have been using swords to keep my initiative, but I have three Lightning Claws ready and waiting for models to be put on as they are slightly better statistically with the re-roll over the extra attack for 2x CCW. In my experience if you need the extra Strength or the better AP in CC with your Assault squad you've charged the wrong unit with them, they're super thin in combat against anything even remotely geared for CC from other armies. In other words, they have Krak Grenades for MCs and Vehicles and if they're in with a 2+ armour save unit they're toast.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
In that case, why not swap the HBs into the Tactical squads and the MLs into the Devastators? All your Bolters in one place, so to speak. I thought I mentioned that when talking about moving them into the Devastator squads :-(

You could go axes on the Sergeants (Oh, I'm gonna!) , I love hiding a couple in my Death Company but they're a very different unit in CC. On my Assault squads I have been using swords to keep my initiative, but I have three Lightning Claws ready and waiting for models to be put on as they are slightly better statistically with the re-roll over the extra attack for 2x CCW. I've considered this, but, its a bit on the expensive side to do.
In my experience if you need the extra Strength or the better AP in CC with your Assault squad you've charged the wrong unit with them, they're super thin in combat against anything even remotely geared for CC from other armies. In other words, they have Krak Grenades for MCs and Vehicles and if they're in with a 2+ armour save unit they're toast. Agreed.
 

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I thought I mentioned that when talking about moving them into the Devastator squads
:read: hahaha I don't know what you mean!

I've considered this, but, its a bit on the expensive side to do.
I got the LCs when a buddy of mine bought the new Vanguard box. It has so friggin' many in there he didn't mind doing a bits swap...I think I have him an old-school metal Whirlwind turret for them. It's a long shot suggestion, but do you know someone who has bought the kit and might be interested in trading some bits?
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
:read: hahaha I don't know what you mean!



I got the LCs when a buddy of mine bought the new Vanguard box. It has so friggin' many in there he didn't mind doing a bits swap...I think I have him an old-school metal Whirlwind turret for them. It's a long shot suggestion, but do you know someone who has bought the kit and might be interested in trading some bits?
Oh, I've bought the kit and have them sitting in a bitz box. :)
 

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Oh, I've bought the kit and have them sitting in a bitz box.
So then what's so expensive? LC's are 15 points just like Axes :scratchhead: One LC is statistically better than a Axe/Sword+Pistol at generating wounds because of Shred despite being one less attack due to the Specialist Weapon rule, you don't need to equip dual Claws to reap the benefits.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
So then what's so expensive? LC's are 15 points just like Axes :scratchhead: One LC is statistically better than a Axe/Sword+Pistol at generating wounds because of Shred despite being one less attack due to the Specialist Weapon rule, you don't need to equip dual Claws to reap the benefits.
I hadn't considered that, usually I'm going for the extra attack with the weapon/pistol combo. I hadn't thought about Shred it using the LC as I've always considered it to be something that needed the other specialist weapon to make it effective.
 

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I personally run a squad of vanguard veterans (I love them), and I have 2 of them run a Storm Shield/Lightning Claw combo. With the Storm Shield they aren't going to get an extra attack anyways, and with it they can soak up AP 1/2 shots from Look Out Sir's on my Artificer Armor wearing Chapter Master. This combo is quite effective if you end up running anyone that can wear a Storm Shield :p (Command Squads are quite effective)!
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I personally run a squad of vanguard veterans (I love them), and I have 2 of them run a Storm Shield/Lightning Claw combo. With the Storm Shield they aren't going to get an extra attack anyways, and with it they can soak up AP 1/2 shots from Look Out Sir's on my Artificer Armor wearing Chapter Master. This combo is quite effective if you end up running anyone that can wear a Storm Shield :p (Command Squads are quite effective)!
I hadn't considered the SS/LC combo before, that's different. I'll have to take a closer look at it when I get home and have the book in front of me. I've considered the LC/PF combo before, but, on in regards to HQ characters.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
t to go over and revise the list. I'm considering the following

HQ 90
Librarian; Level 2 Psycher (Divination)

Troops 1,010
Tactical; Plasmagun, Heavy Bolter, Stormbolter
Tactical; Plasmagun, Heavy Bolter, Stormbolter
Tactical; Plasmagun, Heavy Bolter, Stormbolter
Tactical; Plasmagun, Heavy Bolter, Stormbolter
Tactical; Meltagun, Multimelta, Stormbolter
Tactical; Meltagun, Multimelta, Stormbolter

Fast 240
Assault Squad;+5 men 2 Plasma Pistol, Vet Sgt w/ 2Lightning Claws

Heavy 660
Devastators; +5 men, 4 Plasma Cannon
Devastators; +5 men, 4 Lascannon
Devastators; +5 men, 4 ML w/Flakk

So, yeah. That's the new train of thought for this list. Reorganizing the Devastators to have higher impact weapons, moving the Heavy Bolters into the Tactical Squads and changing one Meltagun over to a Plasmagun pegs this list at exactly 2K.
C&C?
 

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I like the list man, looks solid. The only thing I might try and do is finagle the points to give the Librarian a Jump Pack so he could join the Assault squad and rip Biomancy powers....but that might just be my BA side showing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I like the list man, looks solid. The only thing I might try and do is finagle the points to give the Librarian a Jump Pack so he could join the Assault squad and rip Biomancy powers....but that might just be my BA side showing.
Well, I'd like to own a model like that, JP Libby for my CF, but I don't. I think he may be better served in one of the Devastator Squad, he's been fairly useful so far and I have q hard time imagining him being anywhere else.
 

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I play a Librarian in an Assault squad every time I run my BA, though recently I have been gunning for Invisibility or Shrouding off the Telepathy table. Biomancy's a blast, but not the most competitive choice. You are very right though, in this instance he's definitely better off casting Divination on a Devastator squad. I run Coteaz with mine doing the same thing and it's a blast, but in my games recently if I only brought 2 Mastery Level points it would truly be up to the dice gods to let me cast a power; my buddy typically brings 6 and rolls everything to Deny my Blessings if there's only the one to deal with.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
To be honest, I'm counting on the damage output from the Marines more than the blessings from the Libby. I'd like to have kept him in the Termie Armour, but, it just want feasible for this list. However, I could always run a Chaplain with JP for the Assault Squad, but, don't know where I'd pull those points from. o_O
 

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:shok: I just found out that your damn HQ Jump Packs are 15 points. Jealous.

Drop one Lightning Claw and swap your Libby for a Chaplain with Jump pack. You said it yourself, you're not relying on the Libby's powers and you'd rather play him with Terminator armour.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
:shok: I just found out that your damn HQ Jump Packs are 15 points. Jealous.

Drop one Lightning Claw and swap your Libby for a Chaplain with Jump pack. You said it yourself, you're not relying on the Libby's powers and you'd rather play him with Terminator armour.
This is true. But, the mini for the Assault Sergeant is made and I'm not changing that now. I may rework the list later to accommodate a Chaplain, but, not right now. I rather like the Libby and his hanging in a Devastator squad is awesome.
 

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Ah I see. It's always hard to tell who has what models, how many things are proxies, or whether the models are yet to be built. I definitely suggest giving it a shot one day, I think with a Signum for each Devastator squad and Tank Hunter to boot it would be an interesting shift. Definitely make your Assault squad that much more ridiculous on the charge.
 
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