[christopher.dean]

So for my buddy's birthday he wants to play an 8000 point game, 4 players, 2 teams, 2k a piece. I know he's running Dark Eldar and his partner is bringing hordes of boyz (maybe in trukks). I chose white scars tactics to run the twin-linked assault cannons where scout moves can actually get them in range. It's totally a tailored list, but everyone will be tailoring so it doesn't feel 100% wrong. My partner is bringing Dark Angels but I haven't gotten a chance to see what all he's planning to bring. My fear is terminators. He's new.

Demi-Company Alpha
125 Khan

90 5x Tac (5x Bolter, TLAC Razorback)
90 5x Tac (5x Bolter, TLAC Razorback)
90 5x Tac (5x Bolter, TLAC Razorback)
100 5x Assault (2x Flamer, TLAC Razorback)
150 5x Dev (4x ML, TLLC Razorback)
160 Ironclad (2x HF, DP w/ DWML)

Demi-Company Bravo
90 Chaplain

90 5x Tac (5x Bolter, TLAC Razorback)
90 5x Tac (5x Bolter, TLAC Razorback)
90 5x Tac (5x Bolter, TLAC Razorback)
100 5x Assault (2x Flamer, TLAC Razorback)
150 5x Dev (4x ML, TLLC Razorback)

Armoured Task Force
65 Techmarine
95 Auto/HB Predator
95 Auto/HB Predator
65 Whirlwind
65 Whirlwind
100 Thunderfire Cannon
100 Thunderfire Cannon

=2000


I know there's no anti-air, but unless someone out there knows something I don't, I'm not too worried about it. That being said, I haven't played against orks this millennium and haven't faced DE this whole year. I don't know much about what's in their bags of tricks at this point. I was just banking on a wall of firepower to drop paper transports, flush crappy saves out of cover, and shred large numbers of infantry.

Constructive criticisms and critiques are always welcome!

 

[MidnightSun]

I think it's a strong list, but I'd certainly make some tweaks. I'd cut out both Predator Destructors in exchange for a Whirlwind and then special weapons and Combi-weapons on those Tactical Squads - Tacticals will never be a stellar unit, but yours are just sitting about costing a hefty chunk of points doing nothing at all. Alternatively, you could probably get the points to make that change by swapping out the Assault Squads for Attack Bikes or Land Speeders - you don't get the discount Razorback, which is unfortunate, but you'll get some heavier weapons in compensation and a bunch of points (plus Assault Marines aren't exactly a top tier unit even when they're in an Assault Vehicle...).

I'd also be tempted to drop the Ironclad and swap out the Assault Marines for Land Speeders (and if necessary, one Predator) to afford bikes for Khan and the Chaplain and then a Biker Command Squad for them. The list has no kind of assault at the moment other than one Ironclad, which is a recipe for disaster; a Biker Command Squad with Chaplain and Khan would provide you with a very neat counter-attack unit. It's expensive, for sure, but I think it'd be worth it.

The final option would be to drop as much as you can to spam out Thunderfire Cannons, because against Orks without Battlewagons and Dark Eldar those things will be your secret sauce. They're super good.

 

[christopher.dean]

Sadly I only have two whirlwinds in my collection. If I could find my second missile pod I could build the rest of my 3rd multiple missile launcher and stick it on one of my spare rhinos, but it's lost in one of my many bits boxes from our recent move. I also only have two TFCs so I can't get that 3rd one the formation allows for right now.

What kind of special weapons would you recommend on the tacticals? My original version used 10 las/plas razorbacks with the 6 tacs having melta, but I assumed meltaguns wolud be wasted points against these guys so I dropped them for more pew pew. I had a version of this list that didn't run the Armoured formation and instead ran 3 CC scout squads in storms with AssCans and cerebrus launchers. That list also had bikes for the ICs and a biker command squad (with apoth and gravguns). But I see what you mean about a lack of overall CC. I was just under the impression that tons of orks and high initiative DE would maul just about anything marine hand to hand anyway.

My plan was to scout ahead with the 8 TLACs and use my ranged weapons for fire support. Then slowly move those AssCans back while lighting up the enemy, most likely leaving the marines behind to rapid-fire and speed-bump. Assuming that's a stupid idea, what would you kit the bikes/speeders out with?

 

[MidnightSun]

Sadly I only have two whirlwinds in my collection. If I could find my second missile pod I could build the rest of my 3rd multiple missile launcher and stick it on one of my spare rhinos, but it's lost in one of my many bits boxes from our recent move. I also only have two TFCs so I can't get that 3rd one the formation allows for right now.

Ah, that's a shame.

What kind of special weapons would you recommend on the tacticals? My original version used 10 las/plas razorbacks with the 6 tacs having melta, but I assumed meltaguns wolud be wasted points against these guys so I dropped them for more pew pew.

For specifically anti-DE/Orks, I think Flamers are your obvious choice here especially as you're Scouting. Being able to flame into open topped transports is a huge kick in the nuts for Orks and especially Dark Eldar. Some Plasmas to mix it up may be worthwhile, since they're decent enough anti-armour, but unless you've got Ignores Cover or a million shots you're not killing Dark Eldar vehicles in a hurry. All of this is assuming you don't have Grav Cannons, which are the obvious choice.

I had a version of this list that didn't run the Armoured formation and instead ran 3 CC scout squads in storms with AssCans and cerebrus launchers. That list also had bikes for the ICs and a biker command squad (with apoth and gravguns). But I see what you mean about a lack of overall CC. I was just under the impression that tons of orks and high initiative DE would maul just about anything marine hand to hand anyway.

Nah, T5 means Orks will bounce right off you and Dark Eldar assault units can be shot up fairly easily first (it's usually a token unit of Incubi or Grotesques if anything at all in my experience).

My plan was to scout ahead with the 8 TLACs and use my ranged weapons for fire support. Then slowly move those AssCans back while lighting up the enemy, most likely leaving the marines behind to rapid-fire and speed-bump. Assuming that's a stupid idea, what would you kit the bikes/speeders out with?

Scout up, alpha strike, keep at 24" away until it's no longer viable to do so, hop out, Tactical Doctrine, bolter the asses of some fools who made it through the 24" death zone. I'd give the Speeders double Heavy Flamer and Deep Strike them; it's the single most effective way of neutralising Dark Eldar vehicles. Unless it's a Venom, don't bother about killing Dark Eldar transports - they're far too resilient for the points to bother shooting at them with most weapons, so simply bypass that and save yourself the aggro.

On the off-chance, if you can scrape together some Librarians, preferably on bikes to form a Librarius Conclave, you won't be disappointed. Even armies with Psykers struggle to stop a Librarius from getting off the powers they want, and Orks and DEldar will absolutely hate it.

 

[christopher.dean]

I agree with everything so far except the grav-cannons. Of course I love them and am in the process of converting over some GK psilencers with some extra bits to make my own gravcannons for either devs/tactics/BT crusader squads, but in this situation I'm seeing them as very expensive and almost useless. I've used gravgun bikes and run into DE in tournaments before and they were just wasted points. Their armor sucks so they didn't score any wounds except on the Talos/Chronos Engines and against vehicles only the 6's would do anything, which are easily jinked away.

However, you've definitely got me wanting more flamer templates in the list. I can remember how much he hated those a while back when I'd scorch off half a squad sitting in a raider.

 

[MidnightSun]

I agree with everything so far except the grav-cannons. Of course I love them and am in the process of converting over some GK psilencers with some extra bits to make my own gravcannons for either devs/tactics/BT crusader squads, but in this situation I'm seeing them as very expensive and almost useless. I've used gravgun bikes and run into DE in tournaments before and they were just wasted points. Their armor sucks so they didn't score any wounds except on the Talos/Chronos Engines and against vehicles only the 6's would do anything, which are easily jinked away.

The Grav-Amps make a huge difference - against Ork infantry, I agree, they suck, but being able to get fairly reliable Immobilised results really hurts Orks and DE. However, I wasn't paying attention and forgot you're in Razorbacks, and therefore have no Fire Points which makes Grav Cannons far less appealing (you can't just drive up and sit in the midfield in your mobile bunker). Flamers are almost certainly the way to go, with Combi-Flamers on the Sergeants if you have points to splash about.

However, you've definitely got me wanting more flamer templates in the list. I can remember how much he hated those a while back when I'd scorch off half a squad sitting in a raider.

Yeah, you can do super things with Flamers vs Dark Eldar. Flamers and Thunderfire Cannons will do horrible, horrible things to them. Also worth getting an Auspex on any and all Independant Characters so you can strip cover saves off of those damn vehicles.

 

[christopher.dean]

So this is what I ended up taking.

Demi-Company Alpha
125 Khan

90 5x Tac (5x Bolter, Las/Plas Razorback)
90 5x Tac (5x Bolter, Las/Plas Razorback)
90 5x Tac (5x Bolter, Las/Plas Razorback)
100 5x Assault (2x Flamer, Las/Plas Razorback)
150 5x Dev (4x ML, Las/Plas Razorback)
130 Dread (TLHF, HF, DP w/ DWML)

Demi-Company Bravo
90 Chaplain

90 5x Tac (5x Bolter, Las/Plas Razorback)
90 5x Tac (5x Bolter, Las/Plas Razorback)
90 5x Tac (5x Bolter, Las/Plas Razorback)
100 5x Assault (2x Flamer, Las/Plas Razorback)
150 5x Dev (4x ML, Las/Plas Razorback)
130 Dread (TLHF, HF, DP w/ DWML)

Armoured Task Force
90 Techmarine (Harness)
65 Whirlwind
65 Whirlwind
65 Whirlwind
100 Thunderfire Cannon
100 Thunderfire Cannon

=2000

The Las/Plas wrecked the eldar vehicles. All those separate units of thunderfires and whirlwinds worked beautifully at taking down any eldar in range. My bolters and flamers did most of the work against orks (with las/plas hitting their trukks). The 12" scout move was amazing as it got me in range and if I wanted better shooting after getting position I could still fire both las and plas. I was actually able to use hit & run with some success too. Left two units of orks sitting out in the open after they failed to kill 5 tactical marines.

My partner didn't offer much help. I didn't realize how new he really was. He brought some terminators but not many. He had some footslogging tacticals, a few melta/typhoon speeders, and even some small black knight squads which served as great harassing and distraction units. His real heavy hitters were the tri-las predator and the vindicator. It ate grotesques like butter.

Overall it was a fun game aside from the painful hangovers from the night before. We didn't get to finish the game so we called it a draw, even though everyone agreed the marine force would have won out given more time.