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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Its a fun list that's very competitive.

2X Defiler w/CCWA and Reaper 300
1X Deamon Prince w/Mot BoC & WT
and Wings 200
2X 9 CSM w/2 Meltas & MoT
Champ w/Fist
Rhino 570
1X 7 T-Sons
Sorcerer w/Doom Bolt
Rhino 271
1X 4 CSM IoCG w/1 Melta
Champ
Rhino 145
1X Greater Deamon 100
2X 10 Lesser Deamons 260
1x 2 Obliterators 150

This come out 63 models with or 40 with 23 in reserves with a set up of 7 models.
 

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give the defilers 2 close combat arms each, and drop MoT so the other champ can have a PF!:biggrin::eek:k:
 

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Its a fun list that's very competitive.

2X Defiler w/CCWA and Reaper 300
1X Deamon Prince w/Mot BoC & WT
and Wings 200
2X 9 CSM w/2 Meltas & MoT
Champ w/Fist
Rhino 570
1X 7 T-Sons
Sorcerer w/Doom Bolt
Rhino 271
1X 4 CSM IoCG w/1 Melta
Champ
Rhino 145
1X Greater Deamon 100
2X 10 Lesser Deamons 260
1x 2 Obliterators 150

This come out 63 models with or 40 with 23 in reserves with a set up of 7 models.
I have to disagree on the competitve...

Defilers aren't that good and can only fire one ranged weapon because of the battle cannon, so reaper is only use if the cannon is dead. Take a flamer for just before assaulting, however I'd drop the Defiler and get a second Daemon Prince for unit redundancy and multiple targets, remember your G.D doesn't appear straight away so just one big beast on the table from the start.

I don't know why the CSM need MoT for. They're not mega important to need a invulnerable save.

Bah 1ksons says it all :(

Problems are not enough long range fire power (2 oblits) and not enough melta (3) this list is just going to end badly against much tougher lists and won't threaten mech that much.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
This list places, even wins at tournies against some very competitive players many of wich place high in national level tournies. Just FYI the MoT on the CSM is for DE and IG players or even Tau so when the Rhino's been cacked and they hit hte squad AP 1 ,Blast Markers or a Metric Shit Ton of Rending shots the squad isn't killed out right it has a chance to contenu to fight , plus its always nice to see the look on peoples faces when they land a S10 AP1 Blast marker ,wounding all 10 models and instead of taking off models you start rolling dice. Its like a puppy that just learned not to sniff candels.
 

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so if your saying you won't change anything, why post it?:scratchhead::dunno:
 

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I pretty much agree with Mercer and Logar

At 2k, a second deamon prince will be real helpful. You'll see more return from him than the defiler. I like defilers myself, so rock on with em if you like , but why not give em 2 CCW. If your actually needing the reaper, it means some other part of your army is failing and probably in deep trouble anyway.

Obviously your going for a Tzeencth themed army, so I guess the MoT on the normal CSM is alright. Though if you can part with MoTs, you could outfit that squad of 4 CSM into a larger squad turning them into more than just fodder for your GD drop or even turn em into bikers for a turbo boosted GD drop.

You could also try and squeeze some EA on those rhinos, to help ensure those rhinos/troops are where you need em to be when those Lesser Daemons come in

If you do drop a defiler for a dp, I wouldn't recommend keeping just one defiler at 2k, it will go down quick (unless you want a bullet magnet) and you will be better off with 2 more oblits

It does look like a fun list and maybe its competitive in your playgroup, but like mercer said you'll have a hard time against tougher lists

I love the T-Sons meself ( even if there not that 'competitive'), so keep those inferno bolts firing!
 

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This list places, even wins at tournies against some very competitive players many of wich place high in national level tournies. Just FYI the MoT on the CSM is for DE and IG players or even Tau so when the Rhino's been cacked and they hit hte squad AP 1 ,Blast Markers or a Metric Shit Ton of Rending shots the squad isn't killed out right it has a chance to contenu to fight , plus its always nice to see the look on peoples faces when they land a S10 AP1 Blast marker ,wounding all 10 models and instead of taking off models you start rolling dice. Its like a puppy that just learned not to sniff candels.

Hmmm. I guess you might have a point there.

I can see that being effective if your trying to hold an objective. But you ought to be in cover( you got to place at least on of em) so your 5+ is negated. If you not in cover, use the TSons.

Im not sure how much more chance they have to continue to fight when half or more of the squad is vaporized. At best its a speed bump for your enemy. Yeah, this might grant your other units more time, but you could have something more effective with out the mark (the best defense is a good offense) The one advantage is the unit sticking around for the daemon dropping, but if your allocating your wounds correctly and they really do take that much heat (10+ wounds with no armor, ex: your template), you stand a decent chance of losing your mark or your champ or both.

Especially in rhinos you should be able to use cover to really minimize the damage from IG and their ilk.

Also, Plague Marines.

But I guess its an effective list already, so like, what evs
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I do run a variant with bikes and/or Plague marines and/or a Land raider and/or Terminators and/or 2 DP's even one w/ a Terminator lord they are all very effective, As far "more comptitive list" go it does quite well and easy games are no fun,if all you play is easy games you never improve your game.
 

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I do run a variant with bikes and/or Plague marines and/or a Land raider and/or Terminators and/or 2 DP's even one w/ a Terminator lord they are all very effective, As far "more comptitive list" go it does quite well and easy games are no fun,if all you play is easy games you never improve your game.
I'd like to see that list, it sounds very competitive!:biggrin:
 

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I agree man. It is all about having fun and improving.

I almost got the models for an army with one of each cult unit. I don't know how good my list will be, but I'm pretty sure it will be fun, and at least a little challenging.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I'd like to see that list, it sounds very competitive!:biggrin:
Thats is in fact several variants based around the core troops.The list I'm working on is

2X PD w/WT, BoC and Wings
1X Greater Deamon
3X Dreadnought W/ Heavy flamer 2 w/2 CCW's 1 w/ TL Heavy Bolters
3X defilers
Then what ever troops I can squeeze in and the only reason I'm doing this is I'm trading painting and sculpting for the last Defiler I have the rest.
 

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This list places, even wins at tournies against some very competitive players many of wich place high in national level tournies. Just FYI the MoT on the CSM is for DE and IG players or even Tau so when the Rhino's been cacked and they hit hte squad AP 1 ,Blast Markers or a Metric Shit Ton of Rending shots the squad isn't killed out right it has a chance to contenu to fight , plus its always nice to see the look on peoples faces when they land a S10 AP1 Blast marker ,wounding all 10 models and instead of taking off models you start rolling dice. Its like a puppy that just learned not to sniff candels.
Well I'm sorry to say you either play against poor players or are making it up as this list isn't competitive at all. You haven't got multiple threat, unit saturation or redundancy and taken some of the naffer units in the codex.

Btw - cover? You're just thinking "what if?" if the CSM die they die, you should have more which is my point about redundancy.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
Well I'm sorry to say you either play against poor players or are making it up as this list isn't competitive at all.
You haven't got multiple threat, unit saturation or redundancy and taken some of the naffer units in the codex.

Btw - cover? You're just thinking "what if?" if the CSM die they die, you should have more which is my point about redundancy.
Or I may be very good player. Have you used this list how would you know if its competitive or not. that statement leads me to think you might be a one build player. I mean if one can only win with the "lash/oblit/zerker spam" or variants there of ,one is not a very good player ,as a monkey could be taught to win with that list. As far as the quality of my opponents the vast majority of them until recently,I've moved, were all quite good some national tuornie players that typicaly placed quite high in the rankings. As far as redundancy this list has over 60 models this list is about tactics and strategy not math hammering your way to victory.


2 Gentlemen from the erea I just moved from placed 1st and 7th at 'Ard Boyz....Get Stuffed.
 

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Fortunately I do not use lash or Berzerkers as both are fail.

So like I said not unit saturation, multiple threat or redundancy. This isn't anything to do with 60 mooels or math hammer at all - do you know what I mean when I say those words?

Cool they placed 1st and 7th. You didn't though with your list which beats everything, nice, thanks for the update ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
[
QUOTE=mercer;679962]Fortunately I do not use lash or Berzerkers as both are fail.

So like I said not unit saturation, multiple threat or redundancy. This isn't anything to do with 60 mooels or math hammer at all - do you know what I mean when I say those words?

Cool they placed 1st and 7th. You didn't though with your list which beats everything, nice, thanks for the update ;)[/QUOTE
]

Or I had to work, you know what that is right? Just moved to a new town, have a new job, I don't live in my mother's basement and 'Ard Boyz was on my first day of work. Also I never said my list beats everything, no list does, I only said it was competitive and did well at tournies. So like I said with this list the key is tactics and strategy ,do you understand what I mean when I use these words? As far as unit saturation, multiple threat or redundancy go I've never heard you say anything, but yes I do understand them ,do you?
Like I said if all you play is the list that its easy to win with you never improve your game and yes this list lacks long range fire power but thats truly its only weakness, but I try not to let that hold me down. Plus you don't place that high at 'Ard boyz playing schmucks.
 

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I've said about redunancy, unit saturation and multiple threat several times. If I didn't know what they was I wouldn't say would I? I've already told you how to sort those problems out in my initial post i.e two Daemon Princes giving target SATURATION and MULTIPLE THREAT so you now have two starting on the board instead of one taking all the fire power.

You said your list wins all the time. Not me.

We don't have basements over in the UK anymore. Old houses have cellars. We have attics. However I own my house so I wouldn't be at my Mums...

You improve your game with tactics. Awesome lists do not autowin. You still need a brain to think you know ;)

I'm gonna leave you to it. I've suggested what needs amending to make your list better but if you think it's cool then why bother asking for feedback? I'll leave you too it and your awesome list which beats everyone without just tactics and no saturation, multiple threats and redundancy etc. ;) .

Before I bow out here's some posts which might help you understand what I mean:

http://www.imperiusdominatus.com/2010/05/redunancy-why-how.html

http://www.imperiusdominatus.com/2010/06/5-tips-to-build-better-army-list.html
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I've said about redunancy, unit saturation and multiple threat several times. If I didn't know what they was I wouldn't say would I? I've already told you how to sort those problems out in my initial post i.e two Daemon Princes giving target SATURATION and MULTIPLE THREAT so you now have two starting on the board instead of one taking all the fire power.

You said your list wins all the time. Not me.

We don't have basements over in the UK anymore. Old houses have cellars. We have attics. However I own my house so I wouldn't be at my Mums...

You improve your game with tactics. Awesome lists do not autowin. You still need a brain to think you know ;)

I'm gonna leave you to it. I've suggested what needs amending to make your list better but if you think it's cool then why bother asking for feedback?
I'll leave you too it and your awesome list which beats everyone without just tactics and no saturation, multiple threats and redundancy etc. ;) .
Before I bow out here's some posts which might help you understand what I mean:

http://www.imperiusdominatus.com/2010/05/redunancy-why-how.html

http://www.imperiusdominatus.com/2010/06/5-tips-to-build-better-army-list.html
1)I'll leave you too it and your awesome list which beats everyone
Where in all of these posts did I write that? I believe Competitive and fun were the words used. So wtf?
2) without just tactics
What does this even mean?
3)no saturation
6 MEQ stat lines 2 w/ 3+/5+, 1 w/3+4+, 1 w/3+ and 2 w/ 5+ for a total of 5 meltas, 7 if you count the oblits ,stat lines and meltas that is.
4) multiple threats
1 Deamon Prince good in CC w/ small units and against vehicles susceptible to small arms fire, resistance to heavy and special weapons
1 Summoned Greater Deamon ditto
2 Defilers good in CC against large units, resistance to small weapons fire and somewhat resistant to heavy and special weapons. Plus multiple fire options. Yup no threats here.
5) redundancy etc.
Meaning units that can preform similar fuctions seems to me that there is plenty of that .
5) redundancy etc.
Meaning units that can preform similar fuctions seems to me that there is plenty of that .

;) .
 

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If I can comment on anything, seing as your list seems to have hit a sweet spot in your local metagame, it would only be certain things that stick out to me.

The two defilers, and a squad of Obliterators.

This feels a little off to me, and I feel you might be better off with 3 defilers.

Secondly, the 5man squad with the naked champ. This just screams to me as the sacrificial lamb for the Greater Daemon. If your oponent wanted to cause a loss for you, he would blast this squad away before the Greater Daemon arrived, forcing you to lose either the Sorcerer, forcing them to only walk 1d6, or your powerfist champ - making that unit sitting ducks for Monstrous Creatures and Walkers. Granted, removing the sorcerer isn't that much of an issue with the rhino, but that could easily be taken away in the current level of 40k.

As stated before, I also feel the Daemon Prince could be a weak link in your chain - breaking "easily" to a multitude of AP3 weapons (most of those are also high strength) or better.

But you seem to have found a sweet spot in your local meta-game, so all power to you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Thanks for your comments. As to dropping the Oblits I only own 2 Defilers, but I also feel they are needed for firepower flexibility. The DP well you gotta' have HQ and most things in the game go down to AP3, but I see what you're saying. Its also the reason I don't play special charaters too many points and too fragile. If I put an HQ in a transport I feel I've wasted the points, I just like active HQ's. Plus and this the exception not the rule if it takes 1250 points of units to bring down my DP, well then he paid for himself. I just haven't found something I like better. I do however see your point, agin thanks.
 

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Hmm. I still would consider shelling out for the third defiler, I think in this list it would probably pay off more than two obliterators deep striking for melta, or staying behind and las-cannoning. It would force your opponent to spread out the fire a bit between the Daemon Prince and the two other Defilers, allowing you to close the distance and deliver the Greater Daemon and Lesser Daemon surprise to them.

I feel the two obliterators get sort of... lost, in a way, on the target priority compared to other things, when changing them to a Defiler could do wonders with your opponents mind.
 
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