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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Sooooo I broke down and bought the new BA Tactical box and am going to make them into Sternguard, which instantly got me thinking "hmmm...could this be a unit for Mephiston and Corbulo?". I've been kinda bummed out that these guys move so slow (and also bummed that the LGS didn't have the Terminators in :grin:) compared to the rest of my army, but then I realized that they're in the same boat as my Fragiosos except have a much better range and armament. So there we have it: I must make a list with my Fragiosos, Sternguard/Mephy/Libby combo and start shoving in the other needs to see where it takes me. Tactical squads in Rhinos of course, but what really bummed me out was not getting to take a Chaplain for the Death company. Do I take Sanguinary Guard in the final Elite slot, Death Company, leave it empty....nuts. Another thing I noticed was that out of the two characters leading the army I think I'd rather have Corbs at +1I over Mephy's Adamantium Will for a Warlord Trait and this makes Corbulo I7 all the time and I8 on the charge. I'm now realizing that if a unit from a BSFD with Corbs charges they're be punching at I6 across the board, take that Eldar! Now don't get me wrong, him and a Chappy armed with Valour's Edge with some Death Company charging out of a Redeemer would be more my typical game, but new shiny. Gotta use those Sternguard. I'm currently staring at a 1501 point list ruminating on how to get it up to 2k effectively.

Baal Strike Force Detachment

HQ

Mephiston

Corbulo (Warlord)

ELITES

8x man Sternguard squad - 3x combi-meltas, heavy flamer, Drop Pod

Furioso - frag cannon, heavy flamer, power fists, Drop Pod

Furioso - frag cannon, heavy flamer, power fists, Drop Pod

TROOPS

10x man Tactical squad - meltagun, heavy flamer, Rhino

10x man Tactical squad - meltagun, heavy flamer, Rhino

FAST ATTACK

10x man Assault squad - power fist, 2x meltaguns

Any thoughts fellow Heretics?
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
OK OK, I know...I barely ask for help when I get an idea. Any thoughts on this? I never bring both 'Ravens out but this time....maybe this time it will work...

Baal Strike Force Detachment

HQ

Mephiston

Corbulo (Warlord)

ELITES

8x man Sternguard squad - 3x combi-meltas, heavy flamer, Drop Pod

Furioso - frag cannon, heavy flamer, power fists, Drop Pod

Furioso - frag cannon, heavy flamer, power fists, Drop Pod

TROOPS

10x man Tactical squad - flamer, heavy flamer

10x man Tactical squad - flamer, heavy flamer

FAST ATTACK

10x man Assault squad - power sword, 2x meltaguns

5x man Assault squad - 2x meltaguns, Rhino

5x man Assault squad - 2x meltaguns, Rhino

HEAVY SUPPORT

Stormraven - twin linked multi-melta and lascannons

Stormraven - twin linked multi-melta and assault cannons

2,001 points. Tactical squads go inside the Stormravens, Rhino embarked Assault squads move up providing cover for the jump squad keeping their heads down behind them. Fragiosos come in first to clear the way for Sternguard most likely, but if there's some meat for that unit to bite into they'll be on it. I do so enjoy using both those Dreadnoughts together to get First Blood though....something specifically demoralizing about it even if my opponent blows up both Furiosos in their following turn.

I feel like I could take the meltaguns in the Tactical squads down to flamers so that I have the points (and models) to make all three Assault squads melta oriented, not to mention I doubt very much that I will need that extra meltagun attack from them after getting out of a Stormraven. I think I might be sold on that already...list edited.
 

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Bring more Sternies until you can field the 30 Sternguard in Stormravens with 300pts of free Combi-Weapons formation. Or 20 Sternies in Stormravens and 10 Vanguard with 100pts of free Power Weapons, if you want the added flexibility - honestly the Sternies with buffs up should be good enough, firing off their Combi-Meltas/Flamers to soften people up and then charging in with 3 Str5 attacks each is pretty amazing melee capability for a ranged specialist (especially at WS5 I5 with a Priest). Since you save so many points on Combi-Weapons you can afford to bring fancy weapons on the sergeants, who with A2 base and Furious Charge can also get major mileage out Quickening if you bring Mephiston and don't want it on the man himself for whatever reason. Corbulo's really helpful with this elite-style army, especially as they fix his main problem (mobility) by being a concentrated mechanised force anyway. Is it as good as the Kantor brigade? Eh, probably not (re-rolling 1s to hit, Objective Secured, Fear, Fearless, Preferred Enemy against the opponent's prize unit and a possible/probably bubble of -2 leadership as flat bonuses, with +1 attack near Kantor, is probably better than Furious Charge, a free Combi-Weapon and +1 WS/I and FNP near Corbulo) but it's certainly a decent variation on the build.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
Sadly my friend, the Formation you speak of is a little more specific than you'd like....and don't even get me started on comparing it to the glory that is Crimson Fist Sternguard. You're thinking of the Archangel's Sanguine Wing, within which all Vanguards get a free solo power weapon or lightning claw and the Sternguard all get stormbolter or combi-weapon upgrades as per the 1st Company Armoury rule. Sadly, it's:

FORMATION:
• 2 Vanguard Veteran Squads
• 1 Sternguard Veteran Squad
• 1 Stormraven Gunship
RESTRICTIONS:
All units of Vanguard Veteran and Sternguard Veterans must include 10
models. Vanguard Veterans must be equipped with jump packs.
Plus the SG have to start in the Stormraven, so....not nearly as versatile as you might think. It's pretty swanky but I'm nowhere near about to build Vanguard for my army when I only really got the Sternguard going 'cuz I like the BA Tac kit. I could proxy it, but I only have 15 or so jump pack equipped Assault marines.

charging in with 3 Str5 attacks each is pretty amazing melee capability for a ranged specialist (especially at WS5 I5 with a Priest)
WS5/I5 with Corbs and I6 on the charge thanks to the BSFD, and with the possibility of Unleash Rage with Mephy to have them at 4 attacks each, albeit at the cost of shooting their special ammo. I'm kinda swayed toward Divination for him though, to grab for..well...anything would help them really. Even Scrier's Gaze could be handy if he comes down T1 (/that might be what gets them in T1 over the twin Fragiosos).

Man those Stormravens are expensive. I'm used to having more bodies at 2k....and no Death company! My goodness.
 

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Do you not have more pods? Hence the melta asm in rhinos? If you switch those to Drop pods then Id almost have to say drop a raven for Dante for the reroll on reserves. My 1850 list is a little more reliant on reserves and Dante came in clutch on that front. Also totally agree with Fragiosos. Last Game I went up against Eldar (not a op list) that had some psyker star with warlocks and some other character. Wiped it first turn on a seize the initiative fragioso drop. S6 insta gibbing T3 is just too good. With the sternguard are you combat squading them? The heavy flamer seems out of place to me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
If you switch those to Drop pods then Id almost have to say drop a raven for Dante for the reroll on reserves.
I don't have the pods, but if I did....drop a SR and put Dante where, in the Assault squad? I like using him quite a lot and do typically include him at 2k, but don't see him in this list in an effective manner. Not to mention it would leave one of my Tactical squads stranded on foot unless I drop the second Stormraven and take Rhinos for them and...something else that's around 110 points. A Predator?

With the sternguard are you combat squading them? The heavy flamer seems out of place to me.
No, it isn't a 10 man squad. The heavy flamer looks cool and provides a buff to Overwatch should they get charged (I face a lot of assault-y armies), I only currently own three combi-weapons. It also brings me from 1,991 points to 2,001 I suppose :laugh:

Knowing those things anything new come to mind? Thanks for the comments pal! :eek:k:
 

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So I am currently codexless so points costs might not line up, also have no idea what you have model wise. You said you play mainly assaulty-armies. You should be able to fit in a pretty 10 man dc with a few fists for the raven and some fat off other stuff like the asm power sword and heavyflamer off the sternguard. alternatively a man man sang guard with fist and banner is 200 right? also could swap the raven for a autolas pred and a baal predator. I think itd be interesting as well to drop the raven for 3 5 man scout squads with bp/ccw and melta bombs.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
You're close with the points. I feel naked without Death Company but in the absence of a Chaplain for Zealot (seriously have never in my life played it right, didn't realize it was first round of combat and not triggered by the charge) I'm just not as sold. I'm also kinda tempted by playing a totally red army...but I'm not set on the idea. 10x DC w. jump packs and two fists is 250 (that's how I love 'em) so I'd have to drop both Stormravens. This bungles my Assault squads because then the Tactical squads would need their Rhinos, so they're out too. Adding DC creates a 350ish point vaccuum in this list....I'll ponder this and propose rejigging.

Likewise, I could drop a SR for some glorious SG (obviously mine are kitted as you've suggested :grin:) but again I'm hobbling a Tactical squad. An auto/las pred and Baal would come out to about 140 points (maybe 130, brain mush). I only have one sniper Scout squad that gets no play despite being one of my few fully painted and based squads but I truly do like the idea of peppering ccScouts about the board via Infiltrate.

You've got me thinking on some options excluding the Stormravens. I'll get back at ya asap.
 

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Hmmm so I'm sitting in class and I thought struck me. What if we drop the asscan storm raven, and downgrade that tactical squad to a five man sniper scout squad. With some slight trimming if my off the cuff memory of points cost you could add a dc dred for the other storm raven to carry around as well as a predator of your choosing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I'd have to sacrifice one of my Fragiosos to field the DC dread as I only own two Furiosos. I have a third Dreadnought with two twin linked autocannons but have no real reason to include it in any list barring my use of our Battle Company Formation. Sniper Scouts....are better at being in a SM army than they are at being in a BA one. If I had bp/ccw ones or even just plain bolter Scouts I would be all over that suggestion but backfield units in my BA lists often just end up dead/otherwise useless and those points could have been spent backing up my main assault. I feel like I'd sooner take some ML Devs if I wanted a backfield unit but that doesn't help the Troops requirement. I've been rolling around all these ideas dropping the Stormravens (like I'm ever actually going to get to play both of them in a game under 5k) but I keep ending up with 50-60 points left over. I'm pretty adverse to running the DC without a Chaplain leading them and that means dropping Corbulo which means I may as well drop Mephiston and just do a 10 man Sternguard, but now we're basically back to my old lists but with Sternguard.

Work's getting crazy this week, I'll post up a list with some of these ideas included when I get back from job #2 this evening.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I'm still not very happy with it, but here's what I've come up with most recently:

HQ

Mephiston

Chaplain - Valour's Edge, jump pack, digital weapons

ELITES

9x man Sternguard squad - 4x combi-meltas, heavy flamer, Drop Pod

Furioso - frag cannon, heavy flamer, power fists, Drop Pod

Furioso - frag cannon, heavy flamer, power fists, Drop Pod

10x Death Company - jump packs, 2x power fists

TROOPS

10x man Tactical squad - meltagun, heavy flamer, Rhino

10x man Tactical squad - meltagun, heavy flamer, Rhino

FAST ATTACK

10x man Assault squad - power fist, 2x meltaguns

HEAVY SUPPORT

8x man Devastator squad - 4x missile launchers

Those Devastators....ugh. I like the unit but it's soooo gunna get owned by anyone I face. What the heck else do you spend 172 points on? Predators of any kind are leaving awkward point gaps and if I drop the three meatshield dudes I'm at 1,958. Is this really any better than the dual Stormraven list?

As an aside, I never deep strike my jump units. They move up either under cover of terrain or behind my two Rhinos, occasionally assaulting units foolish enough to have infiltrated (think of it like assault hop scotch) on their way up to wherever the Drop Pods came in.
 

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I like your first list better than this one. My 1850 list is something like this
Dante
Priest jp valours edge
Fragioso pod
Fragioso pod
10 dc jp 2 fists
5 sang guard fist banner 1 axe
5 asm 2 mg pod
5 asm 2 mg rhino
10 asm jp 2 mg 1 lc
10 tactical heavy flamer flamer combiflamer rhino
5 sniper scouts

This looks similar to your second list. Keeping with the theme of the first it's a good list I think. I've never used a storm raven or any flyer actually. So not sure how a flamed squad popping out will do. You need more rhinos/pods lol. Don't we all. The first list should do well. Try a game and come back to the table to see what it was missing.
Ps I found my dc to shred anything even without a chappy.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
You need more rhinos/pods lol.
This coming from someone who's personal list uses the same number of Rhinos and Drop Pods that I have? :laugh:

I'd get two more Pods but then my lists would take on an aspect that I'm not interested in pursuing, though I invariably want two more so that I can make them specifically as Dreadnought Pods. Rhinos...well, I've got three but one of them becomes my normal Predator when needed and I'm using my Baal Predator already.

Ps I found my dc to shred anything even without a chappy.
I played them as such in a dozen games and in a dozen games they let me down. What do you normally face? I'm pretty much up against everything aside from SoB and DE and there's a lot that mucks people in combat. Plus Zealot triggering when another unit charges you is just marvelous. I like taking units with their best foot forward, and DC works without a Chaplain but works implicitly better with one. Valour's Edge when all those god damned GK Termies or Ork Nobz show up is absolutely crucial for generating wounds against 2+ armour. Otherwise you're banking on them failing 2+ armour...and I just don't trust dice enough for that.

Dante
Priest jp valours edge
Fragioso pod
Fragioso pod
10 dc jp 2 fists
5 sang guard fist banner 1 axe
5 asm 2 mg pod
5 asm 2 mg rhino
10 asm jp 2 mg 1 lc
10 tactical heavy flamer flamer combiflamer rhino
5 sniper scouts
I like the list but it comes out to 1820 and it doesn't include Mephy, Corbs, or Sternguard which was where this all started out and what I would truly like to involve in my list somehow. What do those Scouts really do for you? Have you ever considered using Cassor the Damned as your second Troops requirement and putting him in a FA Drop Pod?

Came up with this while sculpting missing pieces back onto plaster moulding:

HQ

Corbulo (goes with Sternguard)

Chaplain - Valour's Edge, jump pack, digital weapons (goes with DC)

ELITES

9x man Sternguard squad - 4x combi-meltas, heavy flamer, Drop Pod

10x Death Company - jump packs, 2x power fists

TROOPS

10x man Tactical squad - meltagun, heavy flamer, Rhino

10x man Tactical squad - meltagun, heavy flamer, Rhino

Cassor the Damned (in Stormraven)

FAST ATTACK

5x man Assault squad - 2x inferno pistols, 2x meltaguns, Drop Pod

5x man Assault squad - 2x inferno pistols, 2x meltaguns, Drop Pod

HEAVY SUPPORT

Stormraven - twin linked lascannon and multi-melta

Predator - twin-linked lascannon, lascannon sponsons, overcharged engines

1,988 points. Thoughts?
 

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Oops forgot the combimeltas on the asm squads haha. I played elder last and the dc crumbled an entire flank. Trust me If my hobby budget was more than $0 I'd have more drop pods / rhinos. The scouts just hide in ruins with camo cloaks on an objective, granted they die they force my opponent to take care of them which means 1 assault I get to counter charge them on. Anyway....I like that newest list
I might consider dropping the infernus pistols for a combi melta. More range and unlikely you will get a second round of firing anyway. That would free up some points for some combi weapons for tac sarges or vetbsarge upgrades, extra pw or something.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Trust me If my hobby budget was more than $0 I'd have more drop pods / rhinos.
I'm going to collect an entire battle company eventually, but yeah. Unless I sell models (which has been going pretty well and might include those Scouts :laugh:) I don't get anything new. The BA Tactical box that will become my Sternguard isn't even built yet, I've been spraying the 30+ unpainted models in this collection red in my free time recently. Gotta finish building up my VE Chaplain and then I'm gunna get on them Sternguard.

I might consider dropping the infernus pistols for a combi melta.
I've been playing them with combi-meltas but just broke those weapons off models for use in the SG. Figured I've seen a lot of lists with the 4x melta shots and I've been coming up against Knights recently, podding in and spreading out the unit so I have two melta attacks on two facings seems pretty tight but I see your point about the...er...points. There's a lot more upgrade in this list than I usually take. Casually I could free up ~80 points and not really feel it. Gotta get me some bolter scouts for situations like these!
 

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List looks pretty good. Maybe with those fluff points a landspeeder? Dunno if you have one or if they are worth it, never used them. Mm attack bike seems like it would fit too.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Dunno if you have one or if they are worth it, never used them. Mm attack bike seems like it would fit too.
Man, I used to play these units all the time. They're now in the slow and painful process of becoming Ravenwing models. Good call though! A Speeder with heavy bolter and typhoon missile launcher is 75 points and despite being paper thin that range and speed is pretty mint.

This happens every time I try to make a SM option I have into anything other than Blood Angels :laugh:

Really appreciate your comments on the list pal, thanks!
 
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