[Galahad]

Someone on B&C said he used Attack Bikes and a Techmarine as an alternative to an assault squad (as opposed to trying to compare attack bikes vs speeders) (about half the attacks, similar survivability but the tech adds more power weapon/fist attacks and the bikes can also shoot better then an assault squad) So I decided to alter my standard list to try this concept out. Also I wanna use the 'just for shits and grins' techmarine I'm modeling (boker w/servo harness, but the harness is built into his 'bike' which is in fact, a mechanical horse from an empire engineer)

Here's what I got. Yes, the chaplain is bloated, but I like the model I made for him.

HQ:
MoS Chappy 316
- 2LCs, Grail, TermHon, JP, Deathmask, Frags, MeltaBombs.
- Death Company w/JPS

Elites
Moriar The Chosen w/Drop Pod 174

Techmarine 156
- Servo Harness, TermHon, Bike, Deathmask, Frags

Troops
SM Scout Squad 150
- 8man, BP/CCW, Frags, ML, PF Vet

BA Scout Squad 140
- 8man, BP/CCW, Frags, PF Vet

BA Scout Squad 140
- 8man, BP/CCW, Frags, PF Vet

Tac Squad 115
- 6man, Las/Plas

Fast
Attack Bike Squad 180
- 3x Attack Bikes, 2 w/MM

Land Speeder Squad 160
- 2x HB/AC Tornados

Land Speeder Squad 80
- 1x HB/AC Tornado

Heavy
Baal Pred 128
- HB Sponson, EA, Smoke

Baal Pred 128
- HB Sponson, EA, Smoke

Vindicator Assault Tank 133
- EA, Smoke

2000pts on the nose.

The techie teams up with the bikes to form a mobile tankhunting squad, the multimeltas and the techie's fists and plasma cutter will kill armor dead while the HB, flamer and TL bolters make it good for anti-inf and thinning squads out before a charge (Free Furious Charge like all BA).

Meanwhile, the speed of the bikes means the techie can keep up with the tanks, or catch up to Moriar in his pod.

The list is very mobile, but largely short ranged. The single las/plas squad is my only real ranged support, but with three ACs on speeders, and a pair of multimeltas on bikes, shooting range isn't a huge issue.

Have the bikes stick near the tanks (at least near the vindi) to provide countercharge and tech support, as well as further short range pwnage

The scouts are there because I love scouts and an infiltrating S9 Powerfist is always worth the points, just for the look on the enemy's face if nothing else. (the missile launcher in the first squad is more of a 'just in case' weapon, if I can line up a side shot on an enemy tank the first turn)

The chaplain could stand a trimming, but I made a cool mini and I want to represent it.

The fact the techmarine has a servo harness with a bike is iffy. Nothing in the rules forbids it but I'm sure it;ll get eratta'd soon, and people will cry and scream when I use it, but honestly I made him with modeling as a first anf foremost reason for it. I never planned on using him, but this is a meched out list, so I figured he'd be handy.

 

[blkdymnd]

I like it alot. fast solid list and your opponent is going to have to make some fast choices to figure out priorities. Nice job.

 

[Galahad]

Thanks.

I've gotten suggestions to drop one or more scout squad and add more las/plas squads, but I don't like the mobility I'd be giving up, and with that many mobile ass cannons and meltas, I don't think I really need it that much

Though I could convert one of the squads to bolters or snipers if more shooting is needed. I'm not sure about that though. I like combat scouts

 

[Greyskullscrusade]

Correct me if im wrong, but can moriar have a drop pod? hes a special character and i dont believe you can alter thier gear?

 

[Galahad]

You're not, you're just buying him a transport. If you buy a land raider, you can put a normal character inside it, yes? And if a character has a transport option listed, you can certainly buy them that.

The Drop Pod Assault rules say that *any* dreadnought may be mounted in a drop pod. Moriar is a Dreadnought, he may be mounted in a drop pod. Furioso dreadnoughts don't have a drop pod option listed in their description either, because the old codex predates drop pods, but every tournament-ready BA list that includes a furioso gives them a drop pod. You're not altering his statline or wargear or vehicle upgrades, you;re simply providing him legal transport

 

[Anphicar]

Wait, you can put a Techmarine on a bike? (Excuse me, still new to SM)

 

[Greyskullscrusade]

Ya they can, they can also have a jump pack too, they just cant have a full blown servo-harness.

 

[Anphicar]

OOO, that might make me wanna take a Servitor + Bike. Thats a cool combo.

 

[Nivlac]

can you have a servo harness on a bike??

 

[Galahad]

Yes, you CAN have a servo harness on a bike.

There is no current official FAQ that prohibits bike, harness and/or JP. Nor do the rules for bikes, JPs or the Servo Harness prohibit combining them.

The idea that somehow a servo harness excludes the use of a bike is a common misconception because for a while there was an *unofficial* FAQ on the GW boards, but it was deleted and more recent FAQs never addressed the issue. Therefore there is no FAQ that says this is an illegal combination.

Therefore, so long as it's modeled (and it is in my case) there is absolutely NOTHING prohibiting a techmarine from having a servo harness and a bike.

So, now that we've established that I actually know the rules, any comments on the composition of the *list*? :roll:

 

[Anphicar]

Ya they can, they can also have a jump pack too, they just cant have a full blown servo-harness.

That was the answer to my question, which also answers yours.

BUT, i looked in the codex, and i don't see why you wouldnt be able to. Can you point me to a sentence on a certain page? Or an FAQ?

Galahad cant find it either, he says.

I looked at Galahad's B&C thread with this list, and another guy says roguhly "somewhere in some FAQ" they would disallow it. But i dont know of one either.

So im using it! :twisted:

 

[Galahad]

If you go hit the 'official rules' board on B&C, there've been several threads dedicated to it in the past. Everyone who actually knows what they're talking about agrees that there is nothing prohibiting the combination. There was an old *unofficial* FAQ by Paul Hines(?) on the GW board many years ago, but it was deleted and when the real official SM FAQ came out this issue was never addressed (therefore it remains legal)

Bottom line is, there are no rules prohibiting it, and it's not even that outlandish of an idea, especially if you model it right. In my case, I modeled the arms mounted on the 'bike' (which is a mechanical horse), it looks almost practical ;-)

Maybe we should split the rules part off into another thread?

 

[Anphicar]

I believe it is Haines, but w/e lol.

I just found out experimenting that if you use Army Builder and do a Techmarine with servo harness and bike it pops up as illegal, idk why though.

I'll surely still use it since their are no rules prohibiting it. (That i know of)

But yes. Let us discuss the list here only. Any biker rules go in the rules section, please. I'll make a thread.

 

[Galahad]

Thanks, Anphicar.

Now that we;ve got the rules issues moved to another thread, does anyone have any comment son the composition? People on B&C seem to think I should add more las/plas, but I think the stationary element at the cost of one or more scout squads would detract from the effectiveness and theme of the army.

 

[Greyskullscrusade]

It depends on how effective you are at taking out vehicles with assault cannons. Ive never had any luck with them, but yours are twin linked....if you can handle the shorter range, go for it.

 

[Galahad]

I figure a pair of multimeltas backed by the techmarine's servo arms (s9 on a charge because it;s BA) should be pretty effective tank hunters as well. And there's the infiltrating missile launcher on the scout squad, and three s9 powerfists all infiltrating in. And on top of that, there;s the lascannon and five assault cannons. I think it;s got armor covered, but I may be overestimating the usefulness of scouts. They've always odne well for me, but I;ve never fielded this many

 

[Anphicar]

Do not take my advice heavily (frankly I don't know why i am giving it) as I do not know SM very well, especially any actual Chapters suc has BA or DA or BT what have you.

But that seems like a lot of scouts. :|

 

[Galahad]

It is. But for some reason I'm very fond of scouts, and the 4+ save isn't that bad. Plus BA scouts have furious charge. I've charged units of marked chaos marines with equal numbers and owned them because of the extra init and str bonuses from FC

But it is a lot of scouts, more than I've played with before.

 

[Greyskullscrusade]

Sometimes i wish my templars could take scouts, but only for the sniper rifles

 

[Son of mortarion]

Sounds dirty, fast, and dead appropriate for Sanguinius' boys. Great list, fluffy and very competitive.