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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Well since nobody wanted to post advice on my rant about getting beaten by Tyranids :( I decided to come up with a new list. Some thoughts would be nice :search:

This is for competitive play (since my friends have no sense of fun). Straight up no nonsense assault.


Reclusiarch (with DC)
- Jump Pack

Librarian (with 9 man Power Fist RAS)
- Unleash Rage, Might of Heroes

ELITES
Sanguinary Priest (with 9 man Power Weapon RAS)

Sanguinary Priest (with Assault Terminators)
- Terminator Armour

Terminator Assault Squad
Sergeant
- Twin Lightning Claws
4 Assault Terminators
- Thunder Hammers & Storm Shields

TROOPS
Tactical Squad
Sergeant
- Bolt pistol
- Melta Bombs
- Teleport Homer
9 Marines
-Meltagun
- Missile Launcher
Dedicated Transport: Rhino

Assault Squad
Sergeant
- Bolt pistol
- Power Weapon
- Melta Bombs
9 Marines
- Melta
Dedicated Transport: Rhino

Assault Squad
Sergeant
- Bolt pistol
- Power Fist
8 Marines
- Melta
Dedicated Transport: Rhino

Death Company
5 Death Company
- Power Weapon x 2
- Power Fist
- Jump Packs

Death Company Dreadnought
- Blood Talons
- Drop Pod

FAST ATTACK
2 Attack Bikes
- Multi Melta

2 Attack Bikes
- Multi Melta

Baal Predator
- Flamestrom Cannon

TOTAL: 1999

The army design is pretty straight forward, it rushes forwards & engages ASAP. The Tactical Squad split & the Terminators are to DS in off the homer & take nasty assaults/draw fire whilst the rest of the army engages/counter assaults. I simply find that I NEED TH/SS Terminators so this is my compromise. DC have packs but can shield behind the fast Rhinos then leap over them to engage TEQ/ELITES as well, should eat most things the Terminators leave.

Thanks,
Dallas
 

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Nice list. For a competitive standpoint though I see some problems, little niggling things really nothing serious.

biggest thing is the dread though. Only one pod will mean that thing is 2 free KPs to the enemy. that thing has the ability to drop a bollockload of enemies but with a pod it'll be shot to pieces before it gets to assault. in Objective games it will help as your guys moving up are out of the firing while he's in it but in KP games it's just giving him some as it'd be in melta range within his lines etc.

the flamestorm if outflanked is a solid idea, just don't expect it to last long because it's in assault range and that's AV10 in assaults. I'd prefer an assault cannon Baal to reinforce the rush up as it has more range on the flamestorm.

the DC are a good solid size and composition. I'd prefer them in a transport however as they can be controlled while in a transport and in a competitive settign they could get led all over the place.

bikes are solid I use them a lot myself.

The terminators though are not as good as they seem. I ran them in a list with a crusader and through large squads they start falling like crazy. 8 berzerkers, one with a fist, takes out 4 on the turn they charge and lose one back statistically. they kill the last guy in the enemy assault phase so they don't get shot up. Just food for thought :)
 

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You're running a hybrid list with weak AV transports. Expect you're rhinos to die on turn 1. AV11 doesn't last long if there isn't enough of it or other pressing threats. Drop the reclusiarch as well, I know what he does for the DC is sweet but since they can be led around by the nose it's kind of a waste. Speaking of the DC get them an infernus pistol so they can at least pop a tank and charge the occupants. Also, get the termies a ride b/c they'll drop in and die or be outmaneuvered.

As a sidenote drop the dread. He'll drop down into melta range and maybe kill a tank. He's too many points to be sacrificial.
 

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solid advice so far, and i would consider the suggestions given.

i do like the termies though, but i don't understand why you're not running special weapons on your assault squads.

dropping the Baal and the DC Dread would be potentially good ideas.

and i can't help but think that this list would be better served by taking Astorath the Grim; it would make your list potentially nastier with his rules. if you do take him, i would drop the PWs on the DC squad and just run a single PF with him.

as always Mr. Drake:

good hunting.
 

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What I don't get is why you have a DC dread and the Deathboys in this army? 5 Death Company even with packs isn't going to last long. If you deleted this unit, your terminators suddenly grow a Land Raider transport. If you're fighting 'nids, the flamestorm cannons on a Redeemer suddenly become attractive. Now that the DC dread is illegal, change it to a Furioso Dread w/Extra armor and Frag Cannon and pod THAT. I know it's against the BA way to not use claws, but a pod in the backfield with str 6 twin flamer templates can really ruin a horde's day. And if it has a meltagun remaining, it can be very effective, especially if it can hit several vehicle's rear armor with frag. Without the DC, the Reclusiarch isn't so useful, trade him in on a Twin Las Predator with Extra Armor.

In the TAC squad, the Missile Launcher isn't doing anything. Drop it for a heavy bolter. Likely if you're rushing up and assaulting, neither is going to get to do anything, but a HB is better defending your Rhino vs. Hordes.
 

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good advice for killing hordes. i'd still consider Astorath just in case you run into T6 MC spam. most Tyranid don't have great Initiative (beware Raveners, Trygons of all stripes and Genestealers) but unless you're running PF's on all sgts. (and not Sang. Priests!) then you'll have a bitch of a time wounding.

that's why i'm pushing Astorath a bit; his ability to give your BA Furious Charge will help your average BA wound high Toughness beasties.

and just FYI, you can actually have 4-6 T6 MC's at 1850, so it can definitely done at 2K.

good hunting.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
Thank you all for the great replies/thoughts.

Lord Reevan & hippogryph, I totally get what you're saying on the Drop Pod DC Dread, I only have it in the list because I spent 2 weeks painting up a FW model. It might have to get dropped :(

Inquisitor Malaclypse, I did consider Astorath, but he needs a Jump Pack unit, and it seems a waste to give him DC (since he'll be uncontrollable & just plunge into Gaunts & get counter assaulted), so that means a RAS which means I'm moving closer and closer towards a JP list, something I'm not sure is going to work with a few Rhinos in it (as mentioned earlier, AV11 aint great! So reducing the Rhinos seems counter intuitive). Astorath is the closest thing (bar Meph) that I'll get to a dedicated MC killer, but what are you supposed to do against Lash Whips? It makes anything killy get owned, that why I had the idea of getting the Terminators in there, they can tie up the Hive Tyrant and then I counter assault in with my good stuff, hitting at normal initiative & hopefully doing the business. I found in my game that unless you assault as one force, supporting units/buffing etc, against Nids melee BA have no chance.

Creon, interesting thoughts. My issue with the LR:Redeemer is that it's a hell of a lot of points and I don't really need an Assault Vehicle for TH/SS Terminators, since they're I1 anyway (as I mention below). I really like the idea of a Furioso with a Frag Cannon, since it will hurt Nids too... But again is it worth just podding it down to die? I'm starting to think that 2 x Autocannon Dreads would do more good, it's just they're so Vanilla and boring!
The Tac squad is going to combat squad, so the missile launcher section will shoot away & the 4 marine + Sergeant is rushing forward to bring the Terminators down as close to where it counts.

As for the Terminators, and this is a recurring theme for me against Nids, I simply CAN NOT KILL THEIR MCs. Tervigons are something stupid like T6 W6 and Hive Tyrants run with Lash Whips & Boneswords, not to mention they can regenerate! Even if I charge it I hit at I1 & get wasted by their sheer volume of attacks, Hammernators with FNP can at least absorb the wounds holding them in combat and allow me to counter charge, thats why I don't need a Land Raider, they're I1 so why not just plonk them down & allow them to get charged, plus 2+3++FNP is mean to wound so the amount of focus they pull away from my other units is more than worth it. I used to run Terminator/SS Lone Wolves in a similar way (only foot slogging) and they would draw so much fire etc that they'd guarantee that my army made it into combat in one piece. That's my reasoning anyway...

Just to make myself clear, I got totally thumped by a MC heavy Nid list, my inability to kill the 2 Tervigons meant they just birthed 7-12 new Gaunts nearly every turn, all game. Also not killing the 2 Carnifex and Hive Tyrant cost me dearly, not to mention Hive Guard are insanely good against Rhinos! Plus my opponent is on about adding in 3 Trygons... it just looks hopeless!

How do you kill T6 MCs behind massive Gaunt screens?

Any thoughts, ideas, builds, tactics, anything! will help me. Please :thank_you:

Dallas
 

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daunting task indeed with Blood Angels, but instead of using termies and C&C units, (and i'm sorry to be counter intuitive as far a BA are concerned) i'd spam ML/Plasma Cannons.

that's what i'd do. i know you can take Devastators and Sternguard and these units can take multiple heavy weapons. not knowing what models you own of course impedes any would be advice, but if the issue is your BA are getting owned in C&C, shoot the hell out of them.

not to mention Sternies have those awesome 2+ to wound bolter rounds. doesn't get rid of FNP, but it's better than wounding on 6s with a standard save and then the Beastie getting FNP.

at that point i'd take a small "finisher unit" (Reclusiarch + an assault with jump packs and PF) would be my option.

and whilst you're not wanting a Jump Pack list, you could do this as a rapid response unit: put severeal wounds on a Tervigon and then finish him off with an assault.

general things to remember about Tyranids:

-invul. saves are rare.
-some of the best saves are 3+ (AP 3 is key here)
-psychic hoods work inside rhinos, but Tyranid power don't affect units inside transports. this is handy as Tervigon powers, some Tyrant powers and all Zoanthrope powers are psyker tests.
-flamers all the way: don't go nuts and buy super expensive flamers; it's better for you to take 5 combi-flamers or standard flamers as opposed to a LRR. most horde creatures are T3 and have 6+ save.
-kill Tervigons first. i’d say these guys are worse than Tyrants because aside from crapping out more Termagants, they can throw Catalyst (gives a unit FNP) on a Tyrant or what ever.
-engage units in opposites. tie up Termagant broods with a Dread, send standard marines against Zoanthropes and Hive Guard. even a small squad can tie these up as they suck at melee, and you want to keep them from shooting.

and how many Carnifexes is your friend taking, and how are they loaded out? any more most ‘Nid players are all about Trygons, so Fexes have become rare. I’d think he’s taking 3 in a brood, which is ridiculous if he can slap FNP on them.

good hunting.
 

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Well If it's a FW dread I'd say keep it in then. Hell in my tournament list I have an assault geared honour guard just Coz I think they look bad ass :) to keep it in I would suggest changing more rhinos to drop pods, maybe even giving the terminators one, as well as the assault squad and tactical squad. that way you can drop down 2 big ass units, the dread and the terminators first turn, they are both scary and will share fire and sould come through relatively well.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Hmmm.... what about this? It's short on scoring units however.

HQ
Reclusiarch (with DC)

Librarian (with RAS)
- Unleash Rage, Might of Heroes

ELITES
Sanguinary Priest (with RAS)
Sanguinary Priest (with Terminators)
- Terminator Armour

Terminator Assault Squad
Sergeant
- Twin Lightning Claws
4 Assault Terminators
- Thunder Hammers & Storm Shields

Furioso Dreadnought
- Blood Fist
- Frag Cannon
Dedicated Transport: Drop Pod

TROOPS
Tactical Squad
Sergeant
- Bolt pistol
- Melta Bombs
- Teleport Homer
9 Marines
- Meltagun
- Missile Launcher
Dedicated Transport: Rhino
- Extra Armour

Death Company
7 Death Company
- Power Fist
- Power Weapon x 2
Dedicated Transport: Land Raider

Assault Squad
Sergeant
- Bolt pistol
- Power Weapon
7 Marines
- Meltagun
Dedicated Transport: Rhino

FAST ATTACK
2 Attack Bikes
- Multi Melta

2 Attack Bikes
- Multi Melta

Baal Predator
- Flamestrom Cannon

TOTAL: 1960 (40 points left over)

Dallas
 

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i like that most of your army can benefit from Furious Charge.

but now i'd be concerned you don't have enough bodies for you to do the job.

the Furioso Dread is a good addition, though i'd run it as a Libby for the sake of a psychic hood.

for the size of the unit and its points, i think your biggest weakness is the DC and its rhino.

you'd benefit more from another RAS and Sang. Priest, or like i said earlier a Devastator gun line to soften up the MC's you'll be facing.

good adjustments though wounding easier with PW could be a key element for you.

good hunting.
 

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The problem with a LibbyNought is the, in my opinion, idiotic FAQ that you can't wargear a LibbyNought. No Extra Armor is the critical one. A 'nought that is hit with a glance and can't move nor use offensive powers is....less than optimal.
 

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The problem with a LibbyNought is the, in my opinion, idiotic FAQ that you can't wargear a LibbyNought. No Extra Armor is the critical one. A 'nought that is hit with a glance and can't move nor use offensive powers is....less than optimal.
had not thought about that.

it is stupid. but on the other hand, when going up agains a Tyranid T6 MC spam list, extra armor could be irrelevent.

not as good as choice (i.e., i agree with you) but i'd still consider it for the sake of stopping all those psyker tests.
 

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I still think the libbynought is a poor choice as opposed to a standard Furioso Clawnought in the same slot. I used to field the Libbynaught all the time, but retired him when the new FAQ came out, replacing him with the librarian in Terminator Armor riding the Storm Raven.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
Good points fellas, I don't like the idea of Lib Dreads anyway...

Right, got to get my head around this... the DC are gone. Yep, I've removed them, thought about it all afternoon and in the end they're just nice MEQs, they overkill things my RAS can handle & don't have the staying power I need to handle Tyranid MCs. It's a shame but that's the way it is...

So, here is my latest idea.

HQ

Seth (with Power Weapon RAS)

Librarian (with Power Fist RAS)
- Unleash Rage, Blood Lance

Elites

Furioso
- Frag Cannon, Blood Fist
- Drop Pod

Sanguinary Priest (with Seth's RAS)
Sanguinary Priest (with Terminators)
- Terminator Armour

Terminator Assault Squad
Sergeant
- Lightning Claws
4 Assault Terminators
- Thunder Hammer & Storm Shields

Troops

Tactical Squad
Sergeant
- Bolt pistol
- Teleport Homer
9 Marines
-Meltagun
- Missile Launcher
Dedicated Transport: Rhino

Assault Squad
Sergeant
- Bolt pistol
- Power Fist
8 Marines
- Meltagun
Dedicated Transport: Rhino

Assault Squad
Sergeant
- Bolt pistol
- Power Weapon
- Melta Bombs
7 Marines
- Meltagun
Dedicated Transport: Rhino

Fast

Baal Predator
- Flamestorm Cannon

2 Attack Bikes
- Multi Meltas

2 Attack Bikes
- Multi Meltas

Heavy

Dredanought
- Twin Linked Autocannon
- Twin Linked Autocannon

Dredanought
- Twin Linked Autocannon
- Twin Linked Autocannon

Total: 2001

I can switch out my HQs for Mephiston if I feel the need to up the competitiveness a little, I'll do that when I see multiple Trygons I think :shok:

Any thoughts?

Dallas.

PS. + Rep time :so_happy:
 

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Definitely better w/out the death company. Those termies still feel lost to me though. The single furioso and baal feel wasted since they are both suicidal. On the upside you've added in ranged support which you were lacking originally which is good.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Third time lucky?


HQ

Seth (with Power Weapon RAS)

Librarian (with Power Fist RAS)
- Unleash Rage, Blood Lance

Elites

Sanguinary Priest (with Seth's RAS)
Sanguinary Priest (with Terminators)
- Terminator Armour

Terminator Assault Squad
Sergeant
- Lightning Claws
4 Assault Terminators
- Thunder Hammer & Storm Shields

Troops

Tactical Squad
Sergeant
- Bolt pistol
- Teleport Homer
- Melta Bombs
9 Marines
-Meltagun
- Missile Launcher
Dedicated Transport: Rhino
- Extra Armour

Assault Squad
Sergeant
- Bolt pistol
- Power Fist
8 Marines
- Meltagun
Dedicated Transport: Rhino

Assault Squad
Sergeant
- Bolt pistol
- Power Weapon
- Melta Bombs
7 Marines
- Meltagun
Dedicated Transport: Rhino

Fast

Baal Predator
- Flamestorm Cannon
- Heavy Bolter Sponsons

Baal Predator
- Twin Linked Assault Cannon
- Heavy Bolter Sponsons

3 Attack Bikes
- Multi Meltas

Heavy

Dreadnought
- Twin Linked Autocannon
- Twin Linked Autocannon

Dreadnought
- Twin Linked Autocannon
- Twin Linked Autocannon

Total: 1976 (24 to spend)

Could swap the missile launcher for a plasma cannon? A bit at a loss for those few points...

Dallas
 

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what are the termies riding in?

i don't see anything for them and foot slogging them could be a bad thing.

granted, you're playing a MC spam list, but a screen of 20 Gaunt with Devourers could put the hurt on you; that's 60 shot at BS 3 on a bolter strength weapon.

the termies can be a good idea, but the problem is that they are too few, and if you're gong after MC's or anything with a Lash Whip, TH/SS is a must.

you'll be going at I1 against a Lash Whip anyway, and a 3++ save will really annoy a Tyranid player.

but i'd still reconsider taking the whole lot. i still think they are too few.

list is better though, give both Preds. flame storm cannons and the addition of Rifleman Dreads. will make your life easier.

good hunting.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 · (Edited)
Yes, you are right about the Terminators, in this version I give them a Redeeder... I don't have a Redeemer but I'll go out and buy one :grin:

HQ

Seth (with Power Weapon RAS)

Librarian (with Power Fist RAS)
- Unleash Rage, Blood Lance

Elites

Sanguinary Priest (with Seth's RAS)
Sanguinary Priest (with Terminators)
- Terminator Armour

Terminator Assault Squad
Sergeant
- Lightning Claws
4 Assault Terminators
- Thunder Hammer & Storm Shields
Dedicated Transport: Land Raider Redeemer

Troops

Assault Squad
Sergeant
- Bolt pistol
- Power Fist
8 Marines
- Meltagun
Dedicated Transport: Rhino

Assault Squad
Sergeant
- Bolt pistol
- Power Weapon
- Melta Bombs
7 Marines
- Meltagun
Dedicated Transport: Rhino

Assault Squad
Sergeant
- Bolt pistol
- Power Weapon
- Melta Bombs
4 Marines
- Flamer
Dedicated Transport: Razorback
- Twin Linked Assault Cannons

Fast

Baal Predator
- Flamestorm Cannon
- Heavy Bolter Sponsons

3 Attack Bikes
- Multi Meltas

Heavy

Dreadnought
- Twin Linked Autocannon
- Twin Linked Autocannon

Dreadnought
- Twin Linked Autocannon
- Twin Linked Autocannon

Total: 1991 (9 to spend)

Thoughts?

PS. Would you rather have the 3rd 5 man RAS or a second Baal? This is my dilema, 2 scoring units just seems too few!?
 

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TBH i'd keep both. i can see what you're trying to do with your attack bikes. but that unit can only cause 3 wounds on MC.

i'd almost drop that for another Rifleman Dread, but if it comes down to choosing keep the RAS, but even then a single Baal Pred seems vulnerable. i guess it depends on how you use it.

good hunting.
 
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