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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Right then lads and ladies I have a list that has seen some fire with our new codex and rule book.

HQ
Tank Commander
-Punisher Tank w/HB sponsons and Pask
-Exectutioner w/ Plasma Sponsons

Primaris Psyker w/ Mastery Lvl 2
Primaris Psyker w/ Mastery Lvl 2

Troops
Veteran Squad
-Chimera (x2 HB)
-x2 Plasma guns
-Heavy Flamer
-Carapace armor
Veteran Squad
-Chimera (x2 HB)
-x2 Plasma guns
-Heavy Flamer
-Carapace armor
Veteran Squad
-Chimera (x2 HB)
-x2 Plasma guns
-Heavy Flamer
-Carapace armor
Veteran Squad
-Chimera (ML+HF)
-x3 Meltaguns
-Carapace armor
Veteran Squad
-Chimera (ML+HF)
-x3 Meltaguns
-Carapace armor

Fast Attack
Vendetta

Heavy Support
Leman Russ Battle Tank w/ HB sponsons
Leman Russ Battle Tank w/ HB sponsons

Right then now for some tactics. Under covering fire from the LRBT's the Commander's squadron drives the center flanked by vet squads in Chimeras with the 2 psykers hiding behind giving divination to anything in range. Vendetta is the AA.
Comments, criticism and questions very much welcome.
 
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What has it seen fire against? This is almost identical to the Guard list my buddy used to play, save for some weapon options here and there and that it was the list he used in 5th going in to 6th (so no Pask HQ). I'm curious as to how this approach to AM is working in 7th.

Differently, I would love to see a pair of Manticores backing this list instead of LRBT's- models allowing of course. With the HB sponsons, aren't they the same points cost @ 170?
 

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Hydras might be better AA imho and if you were to drop a few squads of vets you could bring in more Russ stomping goodness or a few more russes and wyverns. The are nasty to all exposed armies and god save light tanks against them cause they ignore cover saves but again just my humble opinion
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
@ntaw - This list or a variation of it has faced down everything from Dark Eldar to Imperial Fists in this edition and the last. The only things it hasn't faced down are Super Heavies and Space Wolves. With the release of the AM codex and 7th Ed. close behind I have seen how much more potent the list and variations like it have become. Especially now with the need for dedicated tank killing weapons to knockout vehicles much more efficiently.
On the note of Manticore and LRBT w/ HBs being the same price I could go on for another hour but it seems to come down to one issue: Yes, you have a better weapon with a Manitcore but I would rather field a tank that can take a Lascannon to the front or side armor and not crumple like cardboard. Not to say I haven't been in situations where I was wishing for a nice big high strength pie plate or 2 to land in the middle of an opponents formation.
@harlotrose - cash flow permitting and with the way current trends are heading with larger games being played regularly in this edition I want to add more russes to this perhaps filling out the command squadron with a second Executioner. and at the rate which a Hydra dies I'd rather take an Exterminator as well for AA just to be sure. Leman Russ Exterminator: the autocannon of a hydra with the AV of a Land Raider =)
 

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Manticores are useful for sniping vehicles behind cover. However they can no longer get a lucky 6 on a penetrating so would have to get 3 shots that all glance or better to kill most things in one turn of shooting now.

Other than that, list is solid. MSU with transports will make Maelstrom of war missions easier. However, I'd take Manticores over LRBT. Or even Basilisks. Then just hide them.
 

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Yes, you have a better weapon with a Manitcore but I would rather field a tank that can take a Lascannon to the front or side armor and not crumple like cardboard.
Cover, Barrage, have other stuff moving up as more of an immediate threat.

However they can no longer get a lucky 6 on a penetrating so would have to get 3 shots that all glance or better to kill most things in one turn of shooting now.
To be sure, I had forgotten about the new Damage Chart when I made my post. That's a bitch smack to the tank crunching I used to do with mine..
 

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I was comparing 50 points for a hydra cannon (quad gun?) versus 80 for a hydra tank with camo netting.
The QG has a higher rate of fire for less points than the tank, but you have to have someone to shoot it and it must be taken in conjunction with the ADL. The 85 (camo is 15 I just found out) points for the Hydra tank is 85 points straight up, not 100+unit to fire the gun that you can lose relatively easily (not to mention stagnant play in a mobile army). I feel like with the Hydra you have more survivability (see the new Damage Chart) and less real points cost.

Any weight to that line of thought? You got some serious Guard knowledge. I've played -1- game of 7th (today, which I friggin' won like a boss even though it was 750 points and I played my beloved Blood Angels), so please let me know if I'm way off base.
 

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The QG has a higher rate of fire for less points than the tank, but you have to have someone to shoot it and it must be taken in conjunction with the ADL. The 85 (camo is 15 I just found out) points for the Hydra tank is 85 points straight up, not 100+unit to fire the gun that you can lose relatively easily (not to mention stagnant play in a mobile army). I feel like with the Hydra you have more survivability (see the new Damage Chart) and less real points cost.

Any weight to that line of thought? You got some serious Guard knowledge. I've played -1- game of 7th (today, which I friggin' won like a boss even though it was 750 points and I played my beloved Blood Angels), so please let me know if I'm way off base.
Yeah, quad gun. And thought Hydras were 65. That must be Wyverns. Quad gun has 4 shots and hydra has 2x Autocannons for 2 shots each. The reason I said QG on an ADL was because harlotrose was already saying to take an ADL for the cover so you may as well just pay 50 for the Quad if you want a stationary AA behind cover. But personally, unless you also take a platoon to camp the back line, an ADL is unlikely worth it in the first place.

I was talking about the merits of an ADL and Quad based on his suggestions not on the whole. I'm planning to run a platoon for the back line so this may warrant an ADL but with comms not QG.
 

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At least if you take a platoon you can take a bunch of Autocannons that can shoot at ground while the QG remains dedicated anti air/skimmer. I still feel like with the changes to Prescience (lasts through the enemy's turn) and the changes to the Vehicle Damage Chart that the ILC is actually more viable these days, specially with its 35 points cost. You could put the ILC on whatever vehicle necessary in your turn using Split Fire Orders while letting the blob shoot where it needs to, and Prescience will last through your use of Interceptor the following player (opponent's) turn allowing you to re-roll your ILC shot on an incoming flier (the main problem it has as far as I'm concerned is that it isn't twin-linked).

It's not something I would necessarily suggest with this list, but I've done the mix of Chimera Vets and ADL blob before with a decent level of success. I didn't have the points for a Tank Commander though, and had a Manticore back when it had half a chance of being effective in an anti-tank role. I think I may try that out again, using a blob with an ILC like that....

....unless of course I'm missing something painfully obvious to someone with more knowledge of the AM than I.
 

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Personally I plan on 2-3 Vendettas anyway. So the need for an ADL with an AA gun is neglible. I'm not trying to hole up any leaks for what I can face. However, An Icarus with prescience and a good BS behind it (I'd probably have Yarrick in a vet squad with Forward sentries) could 1 shot kill any flyer or at least give it a damage result that would render it useless. Also, the ability to "ignore cover order" would strip away it's cover save granted by Jink. That's something you can't get with a Hydra tank. However that couldn't be used with intercept of course.
 

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Hi! I'm thinking on getting in the game again, played some Eldar in 6th, but AM/IG were always one of my fav armies. Looking for a solid mechanized list, with a room for experimentation and fun modifications, yours seems pretty much it :)

Any comments on experince/performance/changes with that list so far? What armies have you faced with it?

How do you use these psykers, I don't really get it... I'm new to 7th, so maybe I just don't yet get the rules. Do you pop them out from transport to cast some stuff, then stuff them back inside next turn when it's time to move?

Also, what's so great about Pask on a Punisher? I know the whole concept seems awesome enough, but I'm interested in preferred targets for his squad. Also, would it drop in effecience dramatically if I demote him just to Tank Commander? Not everyone is a fan of lists with named ICs.

(sorry, my native lang is Russian, and I'm pretty good wih English, but not too great - I'd clarify anything if you'd need me to)
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Well Tixed, this list has faced down everything from the Eye of Terror to the Tau Empire, its a solid list with plenty of components that you can change based on your play style. Personally a couple months back I changed the 2 melta vet squads out for Hellhound/Devil Dogs, with the variant depending on the opposing army (Hordes hate flamers, MEQs hate melta). Also considering that the Hellhound variants are Fast tanks they can get with in optimal range very quickly, give them camo netting and dozer blades and this adds to their survivability, now if only there was a way to better their accuracy... Other possible changes to the list would be the replacement of the LRBT's with Manticores, or drop a vet quad and take a pair of hyrdas or wyverns, this all depends on what you go up against.
The way I use my psykers is primarily a support role. They hang back in the deployment zone with all their powers being from divination. They support Pask's squadron mostly, all the while staying out of LOS to the enemy.
Pask is worth the points you put in. Without the rending, tank hunter and preferred enemy that he has/gives this list would falter in its duty quite often. Demoting him would be rather pointless and a waste of the 30 points you spent on the commander.
But firstly buy the codex then you can see for yourself the kinds of nasty you can bring with a list like this. Just avoid Basilisks, they suck!
 

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A) Pask Punisher is the shit.

B) Tank orders can get a tag along demolisher in range.

C) the Steel Host formation, while expensive, will give your Plasmacutioners preferred enemy and keep them from killing themselves.

D) Vendettas are the best anti-air in the game in my opinion. I can ignore most flyers. Nid FMCs are a different story and those quad guns, hydra flakks, flakk missiles, skyhammer missiles, and single las shots won't even coax a jink out of them. The vendetta will make him jink, and/or wound the crap out of him and everything else in the sky.

Instead of so many melta vets in fall-apart-meras, go with more tanks! After tanks, artillery with camo and a base ADL works well too. But they need to be wrapped with infantry as they fall apart if CC'd. There's so many things that can get a turn two charge now, or drop in a pod, that artillery is scary for me to bring.

I feel that objective secured is like bad bait. Useful sometimes, but if you can bring killy, then you can kill and hold the objective. Granted, all of this has been said by a guy that isn't a great IG player and has drunk a half case of budwiser. Cheers!
 

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Well Tixed, this list has faced down everything from the Eye of Terror to the Tau Empire, its a solid list with plenty of components that you can change based on your play style. Personally a couple months back I changed the 2 melta vet squads out for Hellhound/Devil Dogs, with the variant depending on the opposing army (Hordes hate flamers, MEQs hate melta). Also considering that the Hellhound variants are Fast tanks they can get with in optimal range very quickly, give them camo netting and dozer blades and this adds to their survivability, now if only there was a way to better their accuracy... Other possible changes to the list would be the replacement of the LRBT's with Manticores, or drop a vet quad and take a pair of hyrdas or wyverns, this all depends on what you go up against.
The way I use my psykers is primarily a support role. They hang back in the deployment zone with all their powers being from divination. They support Pask's squadron mostly, all the while staying out of LOS to the enemy.
Pask is worth the points you put in. Without the rending, tank hunter and preferred enemy that he has/gives this list would falter in its duty quite often. Demoting him would be rather pointless and a waste of the 30 points you spent on the commander.
But firstly buy the codex then you can see for yourself the kinds of nasty you can bring with a list like this. Just avoid Basilisks, they suck!
Thanks! Was thinking about bringing some Devil Dogs as well, melta blasts are really awesome (at least on paper). Would it be fine to forget about anti-air completely, drop the Vendetta and bring Wyvern squad of three for extra anti-infantry goodness? Dropping 12 small blasts with all of the rerolls and cover ignore is just... wow.

I did some extra math for Pask and he sure is great for his points. 4.75 AV12 average wounds from punisher gun alone is... scary. At least from the enemy's perspective, that is :)

How do you keep psykers out of LOS while advancing with the Pask's squad as you described in your tactics? Divination powers are pretty shortranged. Pop them in and out of Chimeras when needed?

By the way, there's one annoying word placement in the rules concerning firing ordnance weapons and then firing other weapons as snap shots only. Kinda makes HB sponsons on LRBT almost useless. Personally I think that is true only when vehicle MOVES and fires ordnance, which is implied by the prev wording. So, stationary vehicle fires all if it's weapons regardless of it's type, and heavy type rule should allow LBRTs to fire sponsons normally even if it moves and fires it main gun (since it can only move at Combat speed anyways). So, what do you think about that, was it sometimes an issue during the match, and if it did - how do you argue for it? AFAIK, there's no official FAQ regarding that issue, but FW agreed on my vision of the rules.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 · (Edited)
Tixed: Well the Ordnance rules still apply to our Leman Russ's it just means you have to snap fire a bunch of heavy bolters. The upside to bringing those bolters is it becomes a lot harder to kill the main cannon than if you neglected to take them.
Putting the psykers in chimeras at all is just a waist of time, the models are just so small your opponent will usually ignore them if they stay behind your tanks or in a building. Plus you want them to be constantly buffing the rest of your army and since psykers cant cast anything but witchfire powers out of transports it makes your strategy pretty shotty to say the least. You just wouldn't get your points worth if kept popping them in and out considering you can only embark and disembark during the movement phase.
And sure you can drop the Vendetta but you also have to consider that every other race out there has something that flys and they tend to be pretty nasty, a Vendetta can put some fear into those things. Wyverns and Hydras, not as scary.
christopher.dean: You arent playing Armored corrrectly if you bring a wimpy platoon. Plus any arty that Guard can bring to the table is as expensive as an LRBT, except for the Wyvern that thing is just freakin amazing. In my opinion I'd rather have armor 14 than cloaked armor 12 or 10. Pask in a punisher kills Land Raiders, blobs, mobs, and chariot lords, hell he has brought down an Imperial Knight on several occasions. Demolishers get 1 shot at strength 10 with Pask, the Punisher has 20 S5 Rending and can still fire his side sponsons unlike the Demolisher. Just do the math and see what that comes out to. Also those melta vets got switched out for Devil Dogs late last year but I still love my plasma vets. And I did just look up that steel host formation it looks rather nasty to say the least.
 

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93rdSaphraDarkGuard: I see. Just thought that psykers by themselves are far too vulnerable even when hiding out of sight.

Devil Dogs - any upgrades besides dozer blade and camo? Hull multi-melta? Maybe some pintle-mounted wpn so main cannon will survive a bit longer.

How nasty are the new psykers? Maybe relic plating on front-line vehicles might be a good upgrade, it's cheap anyway.

Vendetta upgrades?
 
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