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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Forsaking common logic I thought I’d field as many of my painstakingly painted HQ models as possible. Obviously this list is for casual games, but even then I am wondering whether spending half of my points in HQ models is total lunacy. In theory knowing my regular opponents; very few tanks, even fewer flyers and definitely no Imperial knights, Super heavies or even Inquisitors with servo skulls makes me think this could work. This army is based on my very first 40k army, the Shadow Legion, of which the theme was a stealthy infiltrating elite force and thus I am stacking as much of infiltration and shrouded USR’s as I can.


Primary detachment 1: Crimson Slaughter supplement.

HQ
Huron [Warlord]
160pts

Chaos Sorcerer
Balestar (Divination) & extra mastery lvl
110pts

ELITES
5 Chosen
5xPlasma gun, Draznicht’s ravagers (preferred enemy)
175pts

TROOPS
16 Chaos Space Marines
2xMeltagun, 13xBolt pistol & CC Weapon, Mark of Slaanesh
Champion with Icon of Excess, Bolt pistol, Bolter & CC weapon
300pts

20 Cultists
17xAutopistols, 2xFlamers, Shotgun
102pts

Primary detachment 2: Crimson Slaughter supplement.

HQ
Chaos Lord
Blade of Relentless, Bolt pistol, Deamonheart (2+ sv & IWND), Sigil of Corruption, MoS, Steed of Slaanesh, Melta bombs
190pts

TROOPS
10 Noise Marines
9xSonic blaster
207pts

5 Noise Marines
Blastmaster

Allied Detachment: Black Legion supplement

HQ
Abaddon
265pts

TROOPS
5 Chosen
5xPlasma gun, VotLW
175pts

Allied Dataslates

Be’Lakor
350pts

Cypher
190pts

Fortifications

Chaos Bastion
Icarus Lascannon, Escape hatch, Ammo store
150pts


Abaddon is always given infiltrate and he joins the large CSM squad with Cypher, whole unit thus starts close to enemy and has Hit&Run, FnP & Shrouded among other things.

Second infiltrate if I get one, is given to Chaos Sorcerer who infiltrates with Sonic Blaster Noise Marines.

If I get really lucky, Huron gives the last infiltrate to himself, in any case he joins the cultists.

Chaos Lord outflanks with the preferred enemy chosen. He then most likely leaves them to join the fighting or goes to kill backfield objective holders thus powering up his sword first.

Troop chosen occupy the bastion, ammo store gives them re-rolls to shooting and escape hatch leads to an objective. Be’lakor supports the army and joins the battle later on, bastion gives him a guaranteed place to hide behind. Blastmaster noise marines try to hold the home objective.

(IC’s confer infiltrate to squads they join, I’ve seen the debates but this is the way we play it here. Also Crimson Slaughter & Black Legion should be able to ally with each, wording is vague, but they are basically both CSM armies and their supplements say they can ally with other CSM)
 

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Entropy Fetishist
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Ahhh... *cracks knuckles* we have some complex rules parsing do do here. This addresses two issues I've been thinking about in the past few days.

First, like you say, can Black Legion ally with Crimson Slaughter? Both codexes say they can ally with Codex: Chaos Space Marines as Battle Brothers... but have no mention of their fellow supplement. That said, however, they are told to otherwise treat their allies table as if they were CSM, so I am inclined to believe by the transitive property of allegiance, the Crimson Slaughter can ally to the Black Legion as Battle Brothers using the CSM allies table, and vice-versa. So no issue there, it just isn't addressed and I feel like I need to white-hat rules lawyer pre-emptively on your behalf. You have that arrow in your quiver should somebody take issue with that.

Now, the next thorny knot to chew at. Can you Infiltrate multiple independent characters with a unit when only one of them has Infiltrate? Let's look at the rules:
- A unit with at least one model that has the Infiltrate rule may deploy as Infiltrators (generally interpreted, as we both agree, that an independent character with Infiltrate thereby confers it upon the unit).
- A unit with Infiltrate may not deploy as infiltrators if joined by an independent character without the Infiltrate rule.

I'm inclined to believe that if you add multiple independent characters to a unit, a deathstar of some sort, you have to give them all Infiltrate if you want to be able to lob the unit forward in its usual manner.

In this case, however, it's elementary, given that Cypher already has Infiltrate and Abaddon is priority #1 for receiving it. Were you to lump, say, the Sorc into that same unit as well, or something, you'd have to get a second Infiltrate bonus from Huron. But meh, you have it well in hand.

Another minor concern that you have adequately prepared for: Cypher doesn't take up a force org slot, but Be'lakor is an HQ that must be in one of your primary detachments. So... in your second primary, I assume.

So I agree with you: this list is perfectly legal, in spite of the various tangles that must get smoothed over. It does, however, spend 1265 of its points on HQs or HQ equivalents (*cough*Cypher*cough*). I shudder to think just how much shooting an army like, say, Eldar would bring at this points level.

Still, Hero Hammer hoo-rah! I applaud this list--it looks like great fun, and uses all 4 expansions to the CSM codex, of which I approve heartily.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
Thanks for your comments! While I feel that the 40k as a whole is quite a mess nowadays... from a hobby perspective I haven't had this much fun with Chaos in ages. To me the low point for CSM was the 4th edition codex and for a long time 6th seemed to be much of the same, but today with new supplements and dataslates I feel there is finally room to experiment with the army and maybe try out lists without the mandatory heldrake. It's still not 3.5 great but it is better than what we've had for a while. To me this game is 50% models and fluff and the other 50% is playability and by this I mean more than being able to win with the army I also want my armies to feel "right" on the table top. For Chaos this means that I want them to feel like an elite army of veterans who are more than capable of beating up any enemy in CC. I feel I've accomplished that with this list, it feels right, now all I've got to do is see if I can also win a few games with it...

I don't get to play nearly as often as I'd like, so when I do I prefer the bigger games. 2500pts is about the norm. Vast majority of my opponents are loyalist space marines of all sorts from Space Wolves and Dark Angels to Ultramarines and Black Templar. There are some Xenos armies too mainly Tyranids and Orks, but incidentially no Imperial Guard, though that may change once they get a new codex.

And to Mossy Toes, yes, Abaddon is indeed a priority target for infiltrate because Cypher's infiltration alone isn't enough and also Be'Lakor is indeed part of the second primary detachment.
 
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