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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Chaos Lord on Juggernaught with Hellfire Sword and Helm of Many eyes.

Exalted Hero on Juggernaught with Sword of Swift Slaying and Dawnstone

Exalted Hero on Juggernaught with Aethersword

Chaos Knights FC, MoK x5, one with banner of swiftness

2x 15 warriors of chaos, shield, halberd, mok and fc, one with banner of eternal flame.

3x10 chaos hounds

Let me know what you think, I know people hate cavalry currently, but I think it has its merits.....
 

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Nope. You've got to have a caster for winds of magic levels. Otherwise, you're too naked. You have no ability to use the winds of magic dice to threaten something (which is just giving a phase away) and provide no boosts to dispel attempts, whereas most opposing armies will have a +4 or at least +2 boost to all casting attempts.

This looks like to few models to be at 2500 points.

Characters on Juggs are Monstrous cav which is not the same troop type as cavalry, so they get no Look Out Sir or protection from chaos knights. Everything will vulnerable to artillery, shooting and magic that bypasses or reduces armour saves significantly.

You need a BSB for the re-rolls of leadership tests, for beserk rage tests, break tests, and fear and terror tests if frenzy is lost.

Hounds do little now. One can largely ignore them with TLOS for magic and non-BS shooting and they sit so low that I think that they do not provide any protection for knights. They might threaten weaker warmachine, but that is about it. Fast cav, while much more expensive, are far better for the purpose.
 

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Agreed, hounds are useless now in my opinion and knights have pretty much been moved to the warmachine hunters instead of the line breakers they were before. With 8th ed the focus in on troops in a big way now and with the large units that people are taking your army just doesn't have the killing power it needs. All your heros will ALWAYS be caught in challenges so they can't add to the number of models removed from the enemy unit and the enemy will always have more ranks than you so they will be stubborn as well.

For 7th ed this would have been a decent list to try but it is made of fail for 8th unfortunately.
 

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Hey, don't sugar coat it you guys! Give it to him straight and tell him what you really think!

:laugh:
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
lol I appreciate the open and honest opinions.

The hounds will provide a modifier to shooting, check out p. 41, you only need to cover a majority of models, not majority of the models, so from the same level at least the knights will get a cover bonus.

The comments about the mage may be justified, perhaps I should look at throwing a level 3 of tzeentch in there just for a bit of backup.

I recently used a unit of chaos knights in a tourny and found them to perform admirably however.

I used a dual hellcannon dragon build in that one and won the next one with a tzeentch level 4 and two hellcannons.

Oh, FYI, if you check the army book p. 54 juggernaughts are 'cavalry mounts' as a result you still get a lookout sir. The joy of this seems to be they can't be sniped but still get stomp and the like, which seems to be good to me.
 

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NO. The Look Out Sir rule is very explicit. The character model must be the SAME troop type as the unit it is in or near to in order to get the benefit (BRB, pp. 96-99). The Jugg mount makes the character model Monstrous cavalry, NOT cavalry (see BRB, pp. 85 and 105 where it says that a monstrous beast mount makes a character mounted "monstrous cavalry", not cavalry). They are NOT the same troop type in the BRB (see pp. 82-83). This issue is very important for us Warriors of Chaos players and in 8th edition we have been running exalted heroes and lords on chaos steeds and discs (which are classified as war beasts and thus make the model cavalry for some reason accoridng to GW and the BRB on p. 82) and stowing away our heroes on Juggs for this very reason. This has been hashed out repeatedly by others elsewhere.

Also, the cover model must cover at least 50% of the unit behind it in order for the cover bonus (BRB, p. 41). I'm pretty sure that the height of the hound model (toe to top of head) is less than half of the height of the knight model from toe to top of head.
 

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Well I agree with the first half of that olderplayer- you do need to be the same troop type to get look out sir protection... and the jugg is a monstrous mount. As for the cover: for single models to get cover they must be 50% out of LoS, but a unit just needs 50% of its models to be behind the cover: if you had a unit of 5 knights and 4 of them have a hoof hidden by a line of beasts then they are in cover... they dont need 50% of tehj unit to be more then 50% of of LoS (or 50% of the entire unit).
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
NO. The Look Out Sir rule is very explicit. The character model must be the SAME troop type as the unit it is in or near to in order to get the benefit (BRB, pp. 96-99). The Jugg mount makes the character model Monstrous cavalry, NOT cavalry (see BRB, pp. 85 and 105 where it says that a monstrous beast mount makes a character mounted "monstrous cavalry", not cavalry). They are NOT the same troop type in the BRB (see pp. 82-83). This issue is very important for us Warriors of Chaos players and in 8th edition we have been running exalted heroes and lords on chaos steeds and discs (which are classified as war beasts and thus make the model cavalry for some reason accoridng to GW and the BRB on p. 82) and stowing away our heroes on Juggs for this very reason. This has been hashed out repeatedly by others elsewhere.

Also, the cover model must cover at least 50% of the unit behind it in order for the cover bonus (BRB, p. 41). I'm pretty sure that the height of the hound model (toe to top of head) is less than half of the height of the knight model from toe to top of head.
Yes, but the chaos book calls them cavalry and even mentions base size.
 

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Juggers are Monstrous Beasts, it says so in the Beastiary in the rulebook.
Indeed.

Personally I think GW missed a trick by not duplicating the troop type changes in the "bringing things up to date" FAQs; having to check the back of the rulebook as well as the FAQ is easy to forget.
 

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I was aware that the WoC army book calls a hero on a Jugg cav but the BRB says that there are now two types of cav and the beastiary in the BRB does control that issue. BTW, the same issue applies to a herald of khorne on a Jugg (only gets Look Out Sir from a larger unit of Bloodcrushers now). This issue was fleshed out on a couple of other regional warhammer bulletin boards.
 
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