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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey all. Here is an attempt at my first High Elves army. Let me know what you think. I am going for magic heavy.

Lords:

Prince
- General
- The White Sword (+2 Str, Killing Blow)
- Armour of Caledor (Dragon Armour, 2+ Save)
- Talisman of Saphery (Negates Magic Weapons in B2B)

Archmage (Lore of Life)
- Silver Wand (+1 Spell)
- Obsidian Lodestone (MR 3)

Heroes:

Mage (High Magic)
- The Seerstaff (Choose Spells)

Mage (Lore of Fire)
- Jewel of the Dusk (+1 Power Dice)
- Obsidian Amulet (MR 2)

Core:

Lothern Sea Guard x24
- Full Command, Shields

Archers x14

Archers x14

Special:

Pheonix Guard x15
- Full Command
- Banner of Sorcery (+3 Power Dice/turn)

Pheonix Guard x15
- Full Command
- Banner of Arcane Protection (MR 2)

Swordmasters x21
- Full Command
- Banner of Swiftness (+1 Movement)

2500 Points

Prince goes with SM. Archmage with LSG. One mage with each PG.

Questions: Do I need RBTs or Eagles? Am I light on core?
 

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Well I dont see a need for 3 mages anymore... but if you do take 3 then 1 should have the lore of metal: it gives you a quick and easy way to counter steam tanks, heavy cavalry and heavy infantry (like WoC) and can happpily be left as a Lv1 (if you dont like the rolled spell just change it to the sig spell). Personally I would just swap the 3rd mage for a BSB, which is far more valuable for your army.

You are fine for core requirements, although I would be tempted to give the LSG a warbanner.. it just gives them that little extra umph they occasionally need. With the special choices I would swap some swordmasters over to be phoenix guard- the PGs need numbers far more then swordmasters (although I think white lions are just plain better then swordmasters.. very annoying when I have ~30 SM and no WL).

You dont need eagles or RBTs in a HE army. The RBTs are less effective then they used to be, and their main targets have diminished, or you arent effective anymore- steam tanks and warmachines dont care much about bolt throwers and giants/dragons and the like are much rarer in 8th. Eagles are either march blockers or war machine hunters... march blocking doesnt work much anymore- its still good to try it as it gives the potential to screw up the enemy's advance (and disrupt their lines) but isnt vital and eagles often get killed before they reach war machines... you have little else that can couner them other then magic, but if in desperate need you could march the archers into range and then try for a bit of luck.
 

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An Elf Magic Army should have Teclis. Take Teclis. Always take Teclis. He is a monster mage, and ignoring the 1st miscast each turn, plus his extra dice make him a MUST.
 

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Well, if you are making the strongest list you can imagine then Teclis is the way to go... but if you are playing friendly games avoid him- he is just about the most hated SC in the game in 8th and playing against him can be very, very boring.
I always used to carry Teclis with my HE but only use him if the opponent was being a dick or was bringing a very powerful army... in a friendly game against people with an 'ok' army he is a little too overpowered.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I've never be huge on taking special characters. My least fun games have always been against them, like the time I was steam rolled by Eldrad. GW puts them in for fluff reasons to keep a storyline aspect to the hobby, and to attract new blood. A newbie reads about Abaddon, and can then actually go and try him out in a game. Advanced players that have skill that still decide to include them in powerlists are not fun to share a couple of hours with...and honestly, I often see that the person that brings overpowered characters isn't always having fun either.

Thanks for the suggestions T/S. I may drop a mage for a BSB. What is making them so critical? And WLs over SMs? I figured the extra WS and A was better than the extra S and the cloaks. I guess it must be the cloaks that tip the scales?
 

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Well the BSB gives you rerolls on all Ld tests within 12"... fear, terror, panic, break and random magic (eg take a Ld, and take a wound for every point you fail by; you still get the BSB reroll). Now with fear tests being taken every turn they're much more important then they used to be, and since a random failed panic test can cost you the game having a reroll on it is great.

SM might have an extra attack and an extra point of WS, but they dont tend to be that helpful. If you use your units 5 wide then SM get 16 attacks (with champ), while WL get 11... so its not double the number of attacks like it used to be and its rare that you need the WS6 of teh SM: most common enemies have WS3-4.
Meanwhile the extra strength is nice, especially for the armour mod which you just dont tend to have with HE. So the WL are a good counter for the things that your archers/LSG struggle to beat: they fill the role you need them to fill better then the SM. Then they are woodsmen, so they can wander through forests and not worry about them being venom thickets... but you are right, their biggest advantage is their cloaks. A 3+ save vs shooting means they'll take very few casualties, while anyone with a lot of shooting will just pincushion a unit of SM without thinking: if you switch SM to WL most people will just shoot your LSG- so either you can live with that and use the LSG to draw fire as you move in with the expensive combat units or you could just put a BSB/mage in there that you dont really want in combat and give them some sacred incense. That'll mean that all your units except the archers are bad targets for shooting (which in my view is probably more useful then having the MR2-3 everywhere)... although if you protect yourself from shooting and direct damage magic then most armies will have to try to deal with you in combat, which is exactly what you want with a list like this one (just try to have the BSB/mage/archmage bail ut of the unit before combat is made).
 

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I've not yet seen a HE army without Teclis since 8th came out, so I guess my local gamers are different folks than yours. I dread facing five elves out of six (the sixth being me) now that Blood has rained plastic elves from the skies. I'm sticking with my evil armies.
 

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Just so you don't find yourself in a rules debate with your next/first opponent- the Banner of Sorcery isn't +3 PD, but +d3. Minor difference there.

Good luck.
 

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I've not yet seen a HE army without Teclis since 8th came out, so I guess my local gamers are different folks than yours. I dread facing five elves out of six (the sixth being me) now that Blood has rained plastic elves from the skies. I'm sticking with my evil armies.
Take Lore of Life, Dwellers is Teclis's best friend with his strength 2.

Aramoro
 

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Yeah, if you can get it off and if he isnt protected by a banner of the world dragon (which I know a lot of people are doing). Problem with relying on dwellers to kill Teclis is that there is a near 50% chance that he'll remove the spell from the game the first time you cast it without an irrisistable.

However, a great tactic (assuming no world dragon) is to take 2 mages with lore of life. Have a Lv4 who can buff your army (roll them first and dont take dwellers), then the second mage is almost certain to get it: cast it with a power scroll and Teclis would be very lucky to survive it (and he wont get the chance to scroll it).
This will also work against non-elf opponents since most armies have a few large units in, and you'll be very hard presses to find any of them that are higher then S4, so at least 1/3 of any targetted unit should die... and if the target is a unit of 30 WoC then its certainly worth the miscast.
 

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That is exactly what I do with my Army. With Brets you get the bonus of the Potion Sacre to go with your Power Stone to force the Miscast/Irresistible.

The World Dragon Banner is less of a worry as it means that unit cannot buffed in any way, no Occams Mindrazor etc etc. Then a unit that size is asking to be Trebucheted, a lot.

Aramoro
 

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Or, you know, you could not take Teclis, and be someone who doesn't hate fun. There's more to these games than going "ooh shiny named character!"

I like the list overall, but I do think three mages are a bit excessive. You won't have enough power dice to cast everything.

I'd also consider what formation the units will be in. You don't want stragglers in the back-- try to keep even ranks. If you have a unit of 16 (once you put the characters in their units), the only way to have even ranks is to have two that are eight-wide, and that's not necessarily a good way to run them. The reason stragglers are bad is because anybody with a war machine will hit an extra model when they shoot the unit, whether it be from a bolt thrower or a cannon ball. There's no reason to just feed them the extra casualty when he doesn't contribute anything to the army.

I don't think there's anything wrong with the Swordmasters, either. I actually prefer them to the White Lions, particularly in this edition. While White Lions are more resilient against shooting, the Swordmasters have two attacks which each hit roughly 75% of the time, at one less strength. S5 is enough to still wound most stuff in the game on 2's, and the stuff that isn't wounded on a 2 with S5 is still going to be hurt by it purely because they won't be in large units and S5 chews enough of their armor out that you'll cripple the unit. I've found I'd rather have more lower-strength attacks (especially when 'lower' is such a relative thing when you're dealing with S5 vs S6) purely because the unit is better able to handle any foe, rather than specifically being good against things like heavy cavalry and armored infantry. If that doesn't do it for you, then the fact that the Swordmaster models are far cooler, in my opinion, than the White Lions, ought to.
 

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In my area and at the Indy GT's in the US special characters are generally not allowed, except at 'Ard Boys (which a lot of the experienced players don't even attend) and one month at the Local GW store and are considered bad form, so I don't see Teclis.

Lore of Life is definitely the best lore for a Lvl 4. I'd look at the Annulian crystal for one of the mages. You need that with the Banner of Sorcery to control and ensure your magic phase. One solution to weaker and lower AS core of HE is to take a lvl 2 with Lore of Metal (which has a great spell giving +1 to hit (shooting and combat) and AP and magical attacks that applies to shooting and magic; has a 5+ scaly skin augment AS; and is good for dealing with tougher armoured troops that HE are weak to) and Lore of Life which can boost toughness, regrow units (good given hihg points costs of HE models) and reduce miscast risks. However, High Magic is still often the better choice (especially for a single lvl 2 with the lvl 4 with lore of life) given the casting costs and available spells (with the 5+ ward save, drain magic, fury of khaine, re-roll shooting, and excellent magic missile and direct damage spell that remains in play).

In 8th edition, smaller and weaker units (like archers) are just giving away VPs too often unless they can remain large and steadfast or run away and hide. I find that HE archers just don't get high enough hit rates and kill rates to make a difference. Compare DE RXB against HE archers in terms of hit rates (including multiple shots) and kill rates (including AP of RXB hits), the points costs, and ability to survive in combat ans the archers quickly lose. HE Archers have no natural protection. Thus, a ranked set of spearmen is cheaper and much more resilient relative to archers. For the points, seaguard are definitely superior to archers (slightly shorter range but spears and armour for little more in points). A BSB is essential for this army to avoid failing panic and break tests.

You really need to consider RBTs and/or eagles even though both are weaker now and eagles die more easily than I'd like. I'm not a fan of archers and Seaguard relative to ranked spearman with decent banners and ranks for steadfast. Also, having something with some movement (Dragon Princes or Silver Helms) and flank protection is important. Thus, I'd drop one PG unit for other stuff.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Just so you don't find yourself in a rules debate with your next/first opponent- the Banner of Sorcery isn't +3 PD, but +d3. Minor difference there.

Good luck.
Ah yeah..worded it wrong. I know its D3. Thanks for the heads up though.
 

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+D3 banner of sorcery
+D3 Teclis
+1 Jewel of the Dusk

Lots of ways for HE to get extra dice. If you had Teclis and another mage you could roll double 1 for the winds of magic and end up with 11PD if you channel with both and roll well for the D3s.... its pretty much a worst case scenario for the opponent since they'll be struggling to get past 1-2DD.
Another example of just why you shouldn't use Teclis in a friendly game.
 

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An Elf Magic Army should have Teclis. Take Teclis. Always take Teclis. He is a monster mage, and ignoring the 1st miscast each turn, plus his extra dice make him a MUST.
Seeing Teclis on the board tells you something about the game about to happen. Playing HE is an uphill battle for many armies, and this characther is akin to rubbing salt in wounds. That and making 2-4 hours potentially not fun at all.
High elves are challenging enough, and there's limitless combination to explore and have fun with if you're a HE general.
Heck, I don't even use slugtounge all the time, just because I'm worried about friendly matches. And sluggy is not even 1/4th as powerful.
 
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